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4-26-2009 @ 2:16PM
I'm going to stick my neck out severely and stick up for Varian. While I'm sure his rascism isn't helping, I don't really think he could ally with the horde for Ulduar-past expierience has been to painful.Yes it was a rogue group of Forsaken-but it proves the hordes ranks are not united and thus any peace Thrall agree's to may not guarantee safety, since we can never know if your forces are truly under your control. This has been further shown by the area before the first wall in icecrown (The name escapes me right now), where the alliance were pushing forward and gaining ground-but were attacked from behind by a group of Horde soldiers. Either you're thoroughly happy to drop peace agreements when it suits you, or you have yet more renegades in your ranks-in either case its far too dangerous for the king to agree to any situation where the lives of our soldiers are in your hands.Thats my opinion, now i'm going to run to cover before all the Varian haters linch me.
4-26-2009 @ 2:45PM
Why is Varian a racist? Among his best friends are a blood elf and night elf. He's been trained thoughout his life by dwarves and even let them make a choo-choo train to his crib. The hate towards the Horde is completely justified. His kingdom annihilated and thousands of people killed in the First war. His diplomatic reach with Thrall was aborted due to him being kidnapped. That resulted in him becoming a slave, which blurted out the view of that peaceful Horde.In Northrend the Alliance is attacked several times by the Horde, not only the Wrath Gate incident. Finally, the lame excuse that the Horde is not responsible for the Wrath gate fiasco. Those revolting forsaken were members of the Horde, which in turn means the Horde as a whole is responsible for whatever they cooked up. Just like the Alliance as a whole was responsible for the abuse caused by Garithos towards the blood elves./nerdyness
4-26-2009 @ 2:48PM
The wall you're thinking of is the Wrathgate, which the writer of this post mentioned a few times. And you have it completely wrong. The Alliance and the Scourge started an all out battle, but the Scourge were winning. When all hope seemed lost, the Horde army came riding in and started fighting the Scourge side-by-side with the Alliance. It was a truly shining moment, a beacon of peace between the factions. But then the rogue Forsaken army came in from a third angle, slaughtering most of the Horde, Alliance, and Scourge armies, destroying the chance for peace that that battle could have made.
4-26-2009 @ 2:56PM
@Mike:No, I believe Wallert was talking about the one area inside Icecrown where there are Scourge everywhere with Alliance and Horde corpses all strewn about the field, just south of the bombing area, which is separated by a wall.
4-26-2009 @ 3:02PM
No Mike I have it right.When i talk about the rogue Forsaken I'm talking about the Wrathgate-which is in Dragonblight.When i talk about Icecrown I'm talking about the (just came back to me) Broken front.
4-26-2009 @ 3:08PM
It's Corprethar or Mordrethar actually, Death or Horror gates... or something. Not Angrathar, Wrath Gate.
4-26-2009 @ 3:16PM
If the Horde is to be held responsible for actions of their rogue elements, so should the Alliance.So they've got an attempt on the Horde capitol with an entire fleet of ships--Jaina's father's fleet--all the trouble the Defias have made, have a share in the wonder that is the Cult of The Damned, and the Scarlet Crusade on top of it all.If I were going to be really low, I'd also point out that their royalty became the Lich King.The Horde's Chief Apothecary counts, but a human King doesn't?
4-26-2009 @ 3:31PM
@ Krianna Ultimately, yes. It isn't low. If part of your organization does something bad, the entire organization is responsible. Simple as that. Alliance is responsible for the Kul Tiras attack on Orgrimmar. Yep. As is the Horde for the failures mentioned in Northrend. Yet no one wants to admit that. Instead they try to downgrade the Varian character.The only difference is that Kul Tiras isn't ingame (yet), so it is difficult to weave them into the game. Your point was completely valid though.
4-26-2009 @ 3:52PM
"While I'm sure his rascism isn't helping"i know your sticking up for Varian.... but i swear if i hear the word Racism used one more time i'm going to lose my marbles.orc's aren't a race. they are a species. they are a species that willingly gave themselves to the burning legion in return for a pitiful amount of power. they are a species that invaded, and almost destroyed the world of azeroth with that power.now that they are without that power ONE of them their warchief wants peace. while the rest of them are more than content with going back to being blood drunk savages. as far as the rest of the horde. lets see the trolls are about two shakes of a voodoo stick of relapsing into eating each other and summoning old gods (or atleast their servants). the forsaken have pretty much always stated their goal is to wipe out life everywhere on azeroth.. thats horde included. which is why i'm not really convinced sylvannas had no idea, and no part in putress's plan. i mean we're just supposed to take her word on it? the last time someone trusted her she almost stopped this expansion from happening all together. that leaves blood elves. everyone knows you can't trust a crackhead.i've said it once, and i'll say it again. the only one member of the horde that has any redeeming qualities are the tauren. in fact i believe that if the alliance meet the tauren first in WC3 they would be in the alliance instead of the horde........ okay they would probably be a side of ribs on a footman's plate. but tasting good is a redeeming quality also :P.
4-26-2009 @ 4:12PM
@KriannaHonestly. If there is any parallel on Alliance side to the Royal Apothecary Society, it's the Scarlet Crusade.- Highly racist.- Want to commit mass genocide of all non humans/forsaken- Want to kill all humans/forsaken who are not on their immediate alliesI don't feel like you can blame the Horde for what the Royal Apothecary Society did, unless you blame the Alliance for everything the Scarlet Crusade has done.
4-26-2009 @ 6:34PM
@Beatrix: In this case, Thrall should hate the humans as much as Variann hates Orcs. His family was killed, the village burned and he was trained to be a gladiator just to fight for the pleasure of his captors.And, instead, he decided to go with a "live and let live" philosophy."Justified", maybe. "Honored", far away from it.
4-26-2009 @ 7:02PM
You guys are ridonculous. slimj091 has got it right. As for the defias and kul tiras, they're not technically part of the alliance. The alliance actually fights the Defias who attempted to destroy Stormwind and saying Kul Tiras is part of the alliance is like saying Gilneas is part of the alliance. Also any comparisons to the Scarlet crusade is ridiculous too. The main flaw in your logic is while you are defining race (actually species and death status). The grand apothacary was apart of the forsaken and worked closely with Sylvanis (who knew about the plague). In fact both her and Thrall knowingly tolerate traitors in their midst. How can another leader trust them when they do so? I mean, in a way, Wrynn knows the horde better than Thrall does.
4-27-2009 @ 2:57AM
"I don't feel like you can blame the Horde for what the Royal Apothecary Society did, unless you blame the Alliance for everything the Scarlet Crusade has done."Scarlet Crusade: Holed up in their own holdings in northern Lordaeron, under attack from Horde and Alliance alike. Ditto in Northrend, except there are even more Alliance forces dedicated to removing them.Royal Apothecary Society: Sanctioned and supported by the Forsaken, with their headquarters a stone's throw away from Sylvanas' throne room, "missionaries" at nearly every horde camp in Azeroth, and a dominant force in Northrend, shooting plague onto everything they can find, all with the support of Horde leadership.There is NO comparison between the two.
4-27-2009 @ 11:07AM
To those that compare the Scarlet Crucade to the RAS:The Alliance as no control over the doings of the scarlet crucade, infact since the start of wow alliance members have been running through triasfal galdes to attack scarlet monastary. They are attackable enemies for gods sakes!The RAS has always been based in undercity, and dont tell me Sylvanas* didn't know about what they were up to. There have always been quest givers from the RAS scattered thoughout Azeroth claiming to do the bidding of "The Dark Lady". They may have gone rogue, but they have been planning to unleah a plague for a long time. If anyone paid any attention to the quests from hillbrad you would have figured that out!*probably misspelled that
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