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5-08-2009 @ 8:12PM
CannedBread:The current Horde is not nomadic, it's reverted back to shamanism, the orcs have a main city now, they have pig farms, they moved out of the Eastern Kingdoms to a desert so that they wouldn't conflict as much with humans.>>>They’ve started conflict with the Night Elves and Dwarves as a substitute. Sylvanas and the Forsaken were betrayed by Varimithras and Grand Apothecary Putress>>>And this excuses the creation of a plague to wipe out the living…how? Thralls currently ignoring the issue but Varian isn’t.Varian is making decisions that are bad for his people by refusing to negotiate with Thrall.>>>Which is why he made plans to attend at least two peace conferences with Thrall.If you are referring to the Ulduar trailer….Varian and Thrall have seen Undercity and was done there with their own eyes. Human experimentation. Slavery. Biological warfare. And so on. Thralls done nothing. This is an ally he wants in the Horde? Not to mention Varians has seen exactly how far he can trust the Horde. Broken Front anyone?There is little point negotiating with someone who proven so untrustworthy. Thrall may be reasonable….but if he can’t control his people – and he can’t, as Garrosh, Warsong Gulch and other events show - he’s the wrong person to speak for the Horde. Humanity isn’t united under one leader…but at least if you make a deal with the leader, you can expect their followers to obey. Thrall can’t even guarantee that.What crack are you smoking? Varian has just recently (Patch 3.0 actually) gotten his shit back together, and ever since he's been blaming everything that happens internationally from skirmishes to flatulence on the Horde. >>>And despite this, he was ruling for 5 years before the game started. He’s attended – or tried to attend - at least two peace conferences with the Horde in that time. Since he got back, he has overlooked the Hordes acceptance of slavery and his own incarceration. He even sent Bolvar to the Wrathgate where they worked with Saurfang Jr.He doesn’t have to like the Horde to work with them and he’s shown a remarkable willingness to do just that for the past 5 or 6 years. What’s he got for his trouble? Not much.His foreign policy is in the vein of the "no negotiating, i'm always right" school of thought, and he lets his anger rule his decision making.>>>As I asked before….when does he get to stand up for his people and the Alliance without being accused of letting his anger rule the day? Tarren Mill was human not so long ago. Not Forsaken. The Forsaken have been attacking Lordaeron for 5 years. Longer if you include their time in the Scourge. The Orcs have been invading Ashenvale for the same amount of time. The Alliance has actively held back in resisting this.However, the problem in Ashenvale is the Warsong clan, yet again. Garrosh and the Warsong clan are a recurring internal problem for the Horde and I anticipate the day when either Thrall or High Overlord Saurfang kick the shit out of Garrosh. >>>>The last time it was tried, Garrosh wasn’t the one who lost. It’s possible Thrall was trying the “I’ll let him tire himself out hitting me in the face” routine but Thrall is supposedly Graroshes leader. He is the Warchief of the horde. Either he can’t reign in the WarSong Clan or he won’t. Neither proposition is cause for the Alliance or Varian to hold back any longer. One thing that really got me about your reply is your statements about the Undercity. The Undercity is Gnomergan II, it's completely uninhabitable to humans, or pretty much anyone else for that matter, the water seeps with plague (old-school scourge plague, not the new plague). Also, Sylvanas' plague research was (to her knowledge) geared towards creating a potent anti-scourge strategic option.>>>No. It was geared towards wiping out humanity and the Scourge. She witnessed the tests on humans. She wants to wipe them out. Death to the Living is not a warcry she objects to. It’s a major reason she authorised the New Plague to begin with. Your comment about "butchers of humanity" amuses me. You seem to assert that humans are entirely without fault in the greater scheme of things in Azeroth, ignoring the fact that a human, Medivh, was responsible for all of the dark portals, humans (the cult of the damned and kel'thuzad) were the main agents of the Lich King in the destruction of Lordaeron and humans are just as easily manipulated, or as willing, to do evil things as all of the other races on Azeroth, case in point:>>>And the last time any of these was representative of humanity? The Cult of the Damned are outcasts. Medivh was killed because of his role. Kel’thuzad kicked out of the Kirin Tor. Even Arthas isn’t representative of humanity. Compared that with the Horde. Thrall brought Varians slaver to peace talks with him. He encourages the Horde to honour those who consorted with demons, and who destroyed Azeroth and attacked Lordaeron. He is allied with the Forsaken who engineered a plague to destroy the living.Humanity has its bad apples. Definitely. So do orcs. And orckind has their good examples. It isn’t all black and white. But humanities Evil (capital E, as opposed to ordinary corruption, politics, crimes etc) isn’t “official policy”. It is with the Horde.My issue with Varian is that he's a shallow character, he's angry and emotional and racist and that's about it.>>>Angry? Yes…..he’s got every right. Two Wars against he orcs, the deaths of Anduin, Bolvar and his father. Numerous massacres. Every effort at peace destroyed or overlooked and Thrall, the Warchief of the Horde, sits there wringing his hands saying “Not my problem, ‘guv”.Thrall is refusing to stop the invasions of Lordaeron or Ashenvale. He is refusing to stop the Forsakens experiments. He is aiding the annexation of the Dwarven Highlands. He and his kind condone slavery, cannibalism, human experimentation, genocide and so on. And he’s not doing anything to reign them in or even censure them.And not everything can be laid at the door of Demonic Corruption…the orcs genocide of the Draenei began before they drank the blood for example.Put it another way…he’s just found out the Forsaken have been creating a plague to wipe out the living. What should he do? What he did was help them retake Undercity and put the same power structure back in place. Emotional? He’s just seen what the Forsaken..Thralls allies…have been up to in Undercity. He’s just lost Bolvar. Hes seen the reports of the Broken Front.Racist….not sure where you get that idea. He works with many races. Perhaps it’s the abomination comment? In tha
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