Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsUlduar nerfed, more nerfs on the way
by Eliah Hecht 
Apr 29th 2009 at 9:00AM
Blizzard posted a list of hotfixes to Ulduar last night in their ongoing hotfix thread, almost all nerfs, and a notice that they were "making further difficult adjustments via hotfix" to Ignis, Razorscale, XT-002 Deconstructor, The Assembly of Iron, Kologarn, and Auriya, with changes to other encounters "highly likely" to occur once they're done with these. In this case I read "making adjustments via hotfix" as "giving them a good whack with the nerf stick."
The specific changes that they just announced for Ulduar:
- The Ignis the Furnace Master encounter has received the following changes: The interrupt effect and duration of the damage from Flame Jets has been reduced, the damage from the Slag pot has been reduced, the number of Heat stacks needed to transform an Iron Construct into a Molten state has been reduced, the base melee damage done by Ignis has been reduced, and the damage bonus Ignis receives from Strength of the Creator has been slightly increased.
- The Assault Bots on the Mimiron encounter will now attack faster; in turn, they will do less damage per hit.
- The XT-002 Deconstructor encounter has received the following changes: The duration of Tympanic Trantrum has been reduced, the timer for XT-002 to hit berserk has been increased, the damage of Light Bomb has been reduced, the effect radius of Light Bomb has been reduced, and the health of XM-024 Pummeler has been reduced.
- Pure Saronite mining nodes have temporarily been disable in Ulduar and will return in the future.
Do you guys think these nerfs are merited? I've seen a lot of worry tonight about Ulduar becoming another Naxx, but in my opinion, it's got a long ways to go before that happens.
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 10)
Karilyn Apr 29th 2009 9:22AM
True fact...
Do you know why the top raiding guilds in the world are the top raiding guilds in the world? Because they are skilled enough to NOT need 40-60 hours a week.
Average amount of time spent raiding, for a top 100 raiding guild, is somewhere around 8-10 hours a week.
Tythian Apr 29th 2009 9:24AM
Sorry to burst your bubble but...
I play about 2-3 hours a night (so 14-21 hrs a week) and We have Naxx on super yawn fest farm... and we are about 1/3 of the way through Ulduar. We are a REAL casual guild... we do more goofing off and telling jokes than actual trying in raids.
Ulduar has been REALLY easy so far. IF not for the fact we are rotating people through right now so they can see it... I am sure we would be farther. Some fights take some patience to learn, but not a single fight is "too hard" for a bunch of Naxx geared folks to run amuck and having fun.
So you fail players are fail, no matter how much you want to whine and b*tch about hardcore people...
Mane Apr 29th 2009 9:33AM
ROFLMAO at Karilyn's post. Oh yes, the top guilds only spend a tiny bit amount of time each week to clear new content. And I'm sure they spent even Less amount in the PTR too!
satria Apr 29th 2009 9:38AM
tbh i dont think your opinion is quite fair. on my main ive done naxx...a hundred times to the point where it got pretty brong an at that stage yea i was only playin a few hours a night. however i just made a new character on another server and havin only recently dinged 80 found it tough gettin into a good guild as i had no naxx achievements on this new char meaning people were less likely to take me along. the result- ive ended up in a nice small guild of very casual players who are just starting their way through naxx and as a result im forced to play a lot more hours than i did before, to the point where im havin to miss raid nights etc to keep up with uni work etc. im not a bad player just that ive found myself in a situation where ive little naxx experience on a server which mostly has it on farm so yea these nerfs make it a little easier for my small guild to have a go at uldar....though still i dont thatll happen for a while
Karilyn Apr 29th 2009 9:41AM
@Mane
That's the whole point. They know how to frontload content. AKA, when a raid first comes out, raid for around a single 30 hour raiding week. Then you've downed all the bosses, or most of them, and they chill back with a very very casual raiding times.
You frontload content once, and once you've cleared it, it becomes increasingly trivial from then on. For example, Naxx only takes around 90 minutes to clear, if you have good organization, efficiency, and know the fights.
A 8-10 hour raiding average week is actually being generous. At least in WotLK prior to Ulduar, it's been closer to around a 2-3 hour raid week.
MasterAsh Apr 29th 2009 11:17AM
I'm far, far, FAR from a representative of 2% of the raiding population. We can't even consistently get 25 people into Ulduar. Yet, Razorscale and XT-002 went down for us on normal last week. . .
. . .easily.
We're a guild that never even looked at T5 and up content, and only a handful even raided pre-BC. We have people that STILL can't live through Thaddius and have healers that miss SINGLE TARGETS affected by KT's Frost Blasts. This isn't about "easy mode is supposed to be easy and hard mode is hard."
The easy modes were already doable, and not just by the top 2%.
blackpony Apr 29th 2009 9:18AM
these nerfs were and are not needed. gear is not suppose to be given away. it should be earned. these fights were all doable before.
Magnar Apr 29th 2009 9:19AM
For our guild it's a relief, really. We've got some 15-20 good players that wants to raid, and have to pad our raid with less skilled guild members.
For us, Ulduar is hard. We've spent an evening wiping on Ignis. Then an evening wiping on Razorscale. The less devoted people aren't signing as much any more.
Problem is, we're too many for just one 10-man, and too few for two 10-mans. It's bound to create tension, unhappiness about being left out, and all that unpleasantness.
For us, having a few easier bosses prior to Hodir, Freya and their ilk, will increase our numbers again to 25 people. Everyone can join, maybe get some loot, and have fun in Ulduar. With time we might beat the entire thing - not because of our mad skills, but because we've gotten some loot doing the earlier bosses.
I can definately see the problem with content being too easy for a better organized guild, with all dedicated players. For a small guild mixed of casuals and raiders, this change is a blessing.
Kris Apr 29th 2009 9:44AM
I think if you want to have a nice casual time raiding, then goto Naxx and run around with Heigan, maybe do a little shimmy shake with Thadd. Why tone down these instances so everyone can have gear and get through the fights. These fights are designed with teamwork and gear in mind, if you have 1 but not the other, get out and go back to Naxx to gear up.
If you are in all level 200 gear with a few 213's, go back to naxx. Why cater to people who are not interested in getting to end game content. Either gear up correctly or LTPYC (learn to play your class). Just because someone pays their 15 dollars a month does not entitle them to veiwing of higher end content, if you wanna see it, goto you tube. I am so sick of all these wipemachine "players" who do not know their class, do not have the gear, do not take the time to look up fights etc... and then QQ and rejoice when something gets nerfed. PROGRESSION is about moving on through however long as it may take, just so long as you progress from pull to pull. Rejoice noobs, Uncle Blizz will make it so you can get by some of these big mean bosses and they won't hurt you so much :)
Anteia Apr 29th 2009 5:09PM
Completely agreed, Magnar.
Honestly.... REALLY. Blizzard is working on BUFFING hard modes so all the elistists who want better gear (everyone did know that right? Hard mode gives you better gear. Go do it if you can.) can still have their challenge. However, see, there's this whole thing about raids now. They actually have a story. There's little machinima that come out before hand that tell us the story. There's quests from the Whisper Gorge in Howling Fjord that start telling us this story. Yogg-saron is one of the endings of the storylines in Wrath. He's not THE ending. But he's one of them. And my raid group is splintering and almost breaking up from lack of progress in Ulduar. We're not a 'bad' group. People might have formed more habits of thinking Bosses should just fall over dead, but devoting 10 hours a week and getting all of two bosses down is discouraging as hell.
We've already had people leave so we have to pug in people, others are on the verge of it. This is not a singular story. Look at different posts. Ulduar is breaking up guilds, which my raid group isn't EVEN a guild. We had Naxx25 down to two and a half hours a night at most. Most of us have the BiS gear and we can't gear up anymore. Period. Naxx might have been a loot pinata, but I'm sorry, I'm putting in the time AND giving Blizzard the same amount of money as others. We were getting XT down to 10% health before wiping. Razorscale we did get the first week, Flame Leviathon we've been trying to up a tower each week depending on how we feel. But see, when we add in towers, the encounter gets harder. And sometimes we wipe on that...
Because that's what HARD MODES ARE FOR. They're for the people who want to have challenges. If you feel the HARD MODES aren't hard enough, then complain on the forums. Blizzard has shown they're willing to buff them. If you can complete the hard modes, you get better gear. Different gear. You get a chance to show off gear all you want again. People also realize that used to be the only way you could tell if someone's done an instance or not, right? Whether they had the gear. Except, funnily, in the MC days, you could go months without an upgrade so sometimes you didn't even get the gear. Now the achievement system is there for people to oo and ahh over your hard mode credentials. Well, not really. Most of us regular players don't care that you did hard mode. At all. We just want you to stop QQing about the regular modes getting scaled down. Your end can get harder. Just ask for it and Blizzard will give. Blizzard has stated explicitly that hardcore players do not hold a monopoly on the game story and end raids anymore. But you still get the gear and the challenge in hard modes. I think this is a fair enough exchange. I think some people don't realize how big of whiny brats they look like when they throw tantrums over regular modes getting easier. I put in around 10 hours a week of raiding right now. Our raid gets too discouraged at lack of progress to do more, but for Naxx, I once stayed up till 8 in the morning to finally down KT for the first time. It isn't that we lack devotion. It's that Blizzard tracked only the most skilled guilds in Ulduar on the PTR and sometimes the 'regulars' weren't even allowed in to try. When you do that, things look easy. But all you hardcore players seriously sound like the Dream Team throwing a fit because they lowered the basket a bit on a junior high team. The first, honest, thought that comes to mind is, "What difference does it make to you?"
Seriously. Regular players know their names are never going to be featured on webpages or talked about or be well known on a server, really. We know people aren't going to eye our gear with as much envy as yours. If youwant the challenge, do the hard mode. Let Blizzard do whatever they want with normal.
Jez Apr 29th 2009 9:19AM
Enough of the top players are so good, that regardless of the encounters, the fact they have the best gear and the most time to commit to those fights simply means they'll beat them if they can be beaten... whether that be in 3 hours or 3 days, it'll happen.
If these Ulduar nerfs make the content more managable and thus enjoyable for an extra 30% of the WoW population, then i'm all for it. If the only fun you get out on an instance is that fact it's sooo hard that only you and a few other guild on your server can do it - and that others are struggling - then FU...
Our guild is progressing well with a 10-man team in pre-nerf ulduar with around 7 bosses done. If this means that we can move on to 25-man and more of our guildies can accompany us in this exciting new instance, then i'm all for it.
It's not like they're giving all classes a Reckoning Bomb, here.. you still need to apply the appropriate tactics and carry out your role well. The fact that a flame jet now hits for 4500 instead of 5800 doesn't make enough of a difference... especially if it's unavoidable anyway.
I have a feeling that Blizzard intentionally made ULD25 nuclear just to test the top 100 guilds, or so, but with the intention of also nuking it after a week or three. Seems to be the case so far.
ANYWAY... these are more adjustments rather than flat out nerfs... so they shouldn't be game-breaking.
GL in Ulduar and whatever you do.
Shaymous Apr 29th 2009 9:22AM
Speaking from a guild that is working on Yogg the entire first floor was a joke this week, if any guild on the planet can't kill those bosses just quit playing now. The second level of bosses seem to be headed in the same direction. At least there is still hard modes to provide some sort of challenge for a few of those bosses.
rosencratz Apr 29th 2009 9:45AM
@ Shaymous
What's your criteria for this sweepingly moronic statement?
Does this rule apply to guilds that "can't" kill the bosses currently or "can't" after months of work? How do you tell if they "can't" after any length of time without this length of time occuring?
Do we assume that all kills must be achieved on a single attempt or a single evening of raiding before we can ascertain that a guild "can't" do it?
Please try and initiate your brain before you suggest replacing players with tumbleweed would be a good idea...
Out of interest have you considered that some guilds might be attempting these bosses with less naxx raiding experience than you... some guilds might be less well geared than YOUR guild... this might cause them problems with bosses that they CAN overcome... in time. If these raiders are less well geared than you when facing this boss? Does this not mean that they're achievement is possibly actually greater than yours? Hell i'd be inclined to think they're MORE skilled than you.
No no your right, whatever YOU find easy must be easy for all. Let's attune stuff to YOUR level!
On another note, black is black, white is white and grey is a myth!
You didn't even mention which, what or how these nerfs actually make things "As bad as naxx"
Michael Apr 29th 2009 11:28AM
@Shaymous
That shitty attitude is the reason I quit raiding. I am now in an ultra casual guild and can enjoy my time in game now. We have a total of about 20 lvl 80's of which 6 are alts. So for our ulduar runs(of which we have only killed Razor and Flame) we have 1 well geared tank(DK), 1 well geared healer(Priest), and 1 well geared dps(me, spriest), everyone else is in heroic blues/epics and a few pieces of Naxx 10 gear.
Now with your philosophy we should all just quit playing, on the other hand seeing the reaction from the casuals that we carry when they get an uber drop is worth more to me than any goddamn server first in the world, or helping some of our younger players learn their class better. Maybe, just maybe, some people enjoy helping people and the social aspect of the game. I will say that I think Ulduar was fine the way it was, but the nerfs will help people like me who love to raid but have found greater pleasures in the game than being the first group to kill a boss.
havitech Apr 29th 2009 9:23AM
I was hoping Ulduar would at least be challenging enough to keep the shit-for-brains Brofist macro spammers out of the zone's General Channel.
If they're going to keep nerfing Ulduar, they better increase the limit on the Ignore List.
Cathaoir Apr 29th 2009 9:23AM
I know my guild wouldn't have downed council of iron last night if the enrage timer wasn't nerfed. But thank god it was, we had the stormcaller to 30% when it was supposed to go off. That was some exciting s*** though.
I would have been more than willing to committing several more wipes to getting the encounter down, but we only had time for that last attempt, so I'm thankful for that nerf.
We're 23rd on the server for Ulduar 10, so we're not hardcore, but we're no slouches, either. Ulduar is still hard, and it still takes us researching every encounter and practicing and communicating. I am a little fearful, though, that they'll nerf it much further. I like that it still takes us several wipes to learn an encounter and that it's week 3 and we just now got our first down in the Antechamber.
chris Apr 29th 2009 9:24AM
Yup, these were a good idea.
Ulduar's not supposed to be easy, at the same time, easy mode is supposed to be do-able with naxx gear and a well balanced group without any positive rolls from the RNG.
There are hard modes if you think it's too easy. Lots of hard modes. That's kinda the point behind the hard modes in the first place: so that without them the fights are do-able by less capable groups so they can like see the entire story, instead of the 3% that would have finished black temple if they hadn't nerfed it into the ground. Blizzard can't afford to make raid content that very few people even see, it's not cost effective. By adding the hard modes they can scale rewards with difficulty but get maximum utility for their development money, which is what they're trying to do anyway.
Honestly, I think what they're scaling to is the fact that the uber guilds that actually got to test Ulduar carry a higher percentage of really good healers in their raids than less hardcore guilds. We typically run with 5-6, and I see that most of them are running with 6-7. My guild is frantically trying to get healers up so we have enough capacity to do that, and trying to get our DPS up to compensate for having fewer DPS spots in a raid. But when they did all their testing with guilds who will switch people in and out on every fight, it's not surprising that the content has to be made less difficult for people who want to play with their friends, not play with a group that's going to kick them because a shaman can do .001% more dps on this particular trash pull.
Lach Apr 29th 2009 9:29AM
I have not been in Ulduar yet so cannot comment on how hard it is or what impact the changes have made, but my understanding is that there are 2 modes, easy and hard.
Are the people that are moaning, it is to easy playing in hard mode already. If not it would seem there is a fairly obvious solution to your problems.
perderedeus Apr 29th 2009 9:28AM
One, these are more tweaks than major nerfs. A major nerf would be "Emalon no longer overloads his Tempest Minions."
Two, obviously Blizzard has data that groups are attempting these encounters and failing. I'm sure they're watching fights and averaging the level of player skill versus their gear against the mechanics of the encounter, and they're seeing a pretty strong disconnect. Enough to warrant the changes.
If you want hard, do the hard modes. Otherwise, the regular mode is meant to be open to a vast majority of players. Raiding a dungeon still requires a good chunk of long-term commitment and coordination to not only get through, but to get through with the gear you want... saying Ulduar bosses are "loot pinatas" is incorrect.
Lyraat Apr 29th 2009 9:53AM
Agreed.
These adjustments are designed to get people into the core of Ulduar and on to the harder fights. These aren't lolpatch-type nerfs. I would assume that Blizzard has metrics that showed groups with a certain average iLvl weren't downing the bosses they should be downing and/or weren't moving as fast as Blizzard predicted they would. Because we're not moving as fast through the instance as predicted, we're not gearing as fast, which means we're not going to be ready for hard modes as soon as Blizzard had planned, which means content gets delayed.
Note that Blizzard didn't touch the hard modes. They want everyone to kill Yogg-Saron. They want the "Sunwell cake, make sh*t harder!" crowd to cry when trying to get Algalon.