Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsUlduar nerfed, more nerfs on the way
by Eliah Hecht 
Apr 29th 2009 at 9:00AM
Blizzard posted a list of hotfixes to Ulduar last night in their ongoing hotfix thread, almost all nerfs, and a notice that they were "making further difficult adjustments via hotfix" to Ignis, Razorscale, XT-002 Deconstructor, The Assembly of Iron, Kologarn, and Auriya, with changes to other encounters "highly likely" to occur once they're done with these. In this case I read "making adjustments via hotfix" as "giving them a good whack with the nerf stick."
The specific changes that they just announced for Ulduar:
- The Ignis the Furnace Master encounter has received the following changes: The interrupt effect and duration of the damage from Flame Jets has been reduced, the damage from the Slag pot has been reduced, the number of Heat stacks needed to transform an Iron Construct into a Molten state has been reduced, the base melee damage done by Ignis has been reduced, and the damage bonus Ignis receives from Strength of the Creator has been slightly increased.
- The Assault Bots on the Mimiron encounter will now attack faster; in turn, they will do less damage per hit.
- The XT-002 Deconstructor encounter has received the following changes: The duration of Tympanic Trantrum has been reduced, the timer for XT-002 to hit berserk has been increased, the damage of Light Bomb has been reduced, the effect radius of Light Bomb has been reduced, and the health of XM-024 Pummeler has been reduced.
- Pure Saronite mining nodes have temporarily been disable in Ulduar and will return in the future.
Do you guys think these nerfs are merited? I've seen a lot of worry tonight about Ulduar becoming another Naxx, but in my opinion, it's got a long ways to go before that happens.
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 10)
The Claw Apr 29th 2009 9:46PM
No, it's a nerf. It's the same damage per second, for less time, i.e. less total damage; not the same TOTAL damage but dealt over a shorter time period.
Kris Apr 29th 2009 9:44AM
Yaaaaaaay! They make it easier so I do not actually have to think about the fights, I can just mash my I win button and we beat the boss Yaaaaaaaaaay!
Get real folks. LTP the following 2 things:
1. Your Class
2. The Fight
if you cannot do that reasoably then you really shouldn't be raiding in Ulduar
I would like someone to show me where they said that easy mode was supposed to be puggable. I distinctly remember Blue posting that Uld 25 is not supposed to be puggable.
Learn the fights and get better gear ppl and you won't HAVE to rejoice at nerfs. Noobs
Julie Apr 29th 2009 9:59AM
Learn to stop going into instances with better gear than the bosses drop. :) Learn to stop playing "casual mode", and claiming how badass you are.
NONE of you have beat Algaron. And according to GuildOx, NONE of you have even beat all the other hard modes yet: http://www.guildox.com/go/g.asp?a=1 Indeed, it seems only a handful of guilds have even gotten around to attempting Algaron.
If you want hard, why don't you do the HARD parts. And then when you have the hard parts on farm. Then come back and complain how it's too easy.
turkeyspit Apr 29th 2009 11:31AM
@ Julie
Wut?
Why are you going on about Hard Modes when we are talking about nerfs to Normal Mode.
Normal Mode was already supposed to be EASY. Now Blizz is trying to make it easier.
If people couldn't clear the boss in EASY Normal Mode, then Raiding isn't something they should be trying to do.
DonJuanito Apr 29th 2009 9:46AM
SERIOUSLY..
Its great that people are _still_ so passionate about this topic but, really, shouldn't we have all seen this coming.. new raid introduced, then tuned down. You could copy/paste wowinsider comments from 'the great Sunwell nerf' from unplayable (shaman/LW stacking anyone?) to merely ridiculous in this thread.
this is the same discussion, the same for and against arguments, and the same situation for each lessening of raid difficulty since I started playing this game (BC kiddie). So that's two years of this nonsense.
TL:DR have some perspective, for goodness sakes.
Nolan Rumble Apr 29th 2009 9:49AM
If you have downed the bosses before the nerfs, just be proud of your guild/group that accomplished it. Maybe they should get a Feat of Strength achievement for downing them before any major nerfs. My 10 man group has had a ton of fun in Ulduar, we have downed about half of the bosses.
P.S. Freya sucks
Hardvark Apr 29th 2009 9:54AM
We are a casual guild - mostly oceanic players on a west coast server. We have easily completed Naxx25, 2d and Malygos and yet we are struggling on Razorscale. In fact we are struggling more this week than last week. Even with all players up, all consumables and buffs we could not get him inside the enrage timer. Until the nerf we could not get XT either except in 10 man of course. None of us played PTR though and we went in cold.
We are neither stupid nor skill-less. We do have to cope with 400+ lat all the time which makes it harder to manage things needing quick reactions. Reading the sentiments on sites like this the meaning is always everything "WE" can do is the correct difficulty setting while everything "WE" cannot do is too hard.
For us the enrage timers are just too tight. We can do the fights fine, just not in the time allowed. Do not under-estimate the effect of latency over a long fight on overall dps. We still have to complete the fights with what is effectively less time to do so. For us they needed a nerf. I am envious of those who did not need it. Nevertheless we play against the game not against forum epeen masters.
turkeyspit Apr 29th 2009 9:50AM
IMO these nerfs are totally not needed.
And this has nothing to do with Hardcore Raiders vs Casuals or any other such nonsense. This has to do with Raiding vs Dungeons.
Naxxramas was nothing more then a 10 / 25 man Heroic Dungeon. It doesn't even really deserve to be called a Raid.
Raiding should take more skill and dedication then running Heroics. While I applaud Blizzards aim for everyone to have a chance to see the content, they have to realize that a certain amount of the work that must come from the players.
To all the guilds who couldn't get past XT or Ignis
- was each member's gear properly enchanted, gemmed, and of sufficient iLV for this tier?
- did each member properly research the fights?
- did each member bring sufficient consumables?
- did each member have the necessary MODs installed?
I'm willing to bet that the answer to the above questions was NO for 95% of the guilds who struggled per-nerf.
I don't have a problem with Normal Mode vs Hard Mode, but you have to at least expect SOMETHING from people to qualify as a Raider....
...or not. Perhaps Blizzard doesn't feel there should be any distinction between a Raider and a non-Raider. If so, that's a mistake.
Raiding has always been for the elite of WoW Players, and not just because of the time required. A Casual Guild full of skilled Raiders will see just as much content as Ensidia; it will just take longer to do so.
Current content RAIDs should NEVER be puggable. You never saw people wearing T4/T5 gear pugging SSC/TK back in the day. The fact that Naxx 25 was puggable was itself shameful, but then Blizz stated they intended it to be 'entry level' raiding, and Ulduar would be 'more challenging'.
Well so much for the 'more challenging' part I guess. At least my guild can say we downed all the above bosses 'pre-nerf'.
It's sad to see that World of Badscraft has been diminished yet again.
I have no problem with people seeing the content they deserve, but if your guild couldn't down the above bosses pre-nerf, then YOU DON'T DESERVE to see it!
Mark Apr 29th 2009 10:32AM
"- was each member's gear properly enchanted, gemmed, and of sufficient iLV for this tier?
- did each member properly research the fights?
- did each member bring sufficient consumables?
- did each member have the necessary MODs installed?"
That is not casual though. Spending time outside the game (homework), to properly play in-game? Installing third-party mods? This is fine to expect of dedicated raiders. But it's definitely requires more commitment than someone who can only play 5 hours a week can give.
"Raiding has always been for the elite of WoW Players, and not just because of the time required. A Casual Guild full of skilled Raiders will see just as much content as Ensidia; it will just take longer to do so."
Yes, it was the elite. Blizzard doesn't want raiding to just be elite anymore. Also a casual guild will not see the content Ensidia will :p Because any guild that's not as good as Ensidia, will end up spending much more time and effort. I'm not sure how "more time and effort" = casual. It's not. If you are raiding the same instance more than 4 hours a week, then you are not casual by any means. I mean, once you get into 12 hours logged on WoW... it's basically a part-time job. WoW shouldn't be your 'job', just so you can see some bosses.
"I have no problem with people seeing the content they deserve, but if your guild couldn't down the above bosses pre-nerf, then YOU DON'T DESERVE to see it!"
Who said anything about "deserve"? Do you "deserve" to see Wintergrasp? Do you deserve to see Dalaran? Do you deserve to see Strand of the Ancients? Death Knights? The Argent Tournament? etc. No. If you play the game, you can go in there. If you play the game only 5 hours a week; you can still go in there and expect to do well once you get the hang of it. Raiding has not been like that. And it should be. You should be able to go into lfg, get picked up by a group. And as long as you're competent and can follow directions, then you should be able to do the content. Raids shouldn't require you to spend hours, and hours, and hours of prep/wipping just to see the content. Nothing else in the game requires that kind of effort. And while I understand not everyone will enjoy content that's accessible, that's why Blizzard made hard modes. So the elite raiders can go in there and bang their heads on that, while everyone else does the regular version.
turkeyspit Apr 29th 2009 11:14AM
@Mark
"That is not casual though. Spending time outside the game (homework), to properly play in-game? Installing third-party mods? This is fine to expect of dedicated raiders. But it's definitely requires more commitment than someone who can only play 5 hours a week can give."
Then don't raid. Simple?
Because you practice golf for 5 hours a week, you think you should have a place with Tiger Woods on the PGA tour? I think now.
"Yes, it was the elite. Blizzard doesn't want raiding to just be elite anymore. Also a casual guild will not see the content Ensidia will :p Because any guild that's not as good as Ensidia, will end up spending much more time and effort. I'm not sure how "more time and effort" = casual. It's not. If you are raiding the same instance more than 4 hours a week, then you are not casual by any means. I mean, once you get into 12 hours logged on WoW... it's basically a part-time job. WoW shouldn't be your 'job', just so you can see some bosses."
Then don't raid. Simple? See above comment re: Golf.
"Who said anything about "deserve"? Do you "deserve" to see Wintergrasp? Do you deserve to see Dalaran? Do you deserve to see Strand of the Ancients? Death Knights? The Argent Tournament? etc. No. If you play the game, you can go in there. If you play the game only 5 hours a week; you can still go in there and expect to do well once you get the hang of it. ."
Nobody deserves those things, which is why they exist. They are there for everyone to see. Thats the content that is meant to be experienced by everyone. Raiding isn't (or at least, it shouldn't be).
I think you are under the misconception that difficulty is what excluded Raiders prior to 3.0. That couldn't be far from the truth. Karazhan and Zul'aman were two of Blizzs most popular Raids. Want to know why?
Because there were plenty of people skilled enough to Raid those zones, but weren't part of large enough guilds to get 25 people together for Gruul/Maggy, T5/T6.
This is why Blizz started with 10 man instances: to cut down the logistics requirement for Raiding. Getting 10 Raiders together is much easier then 25.
By no means was this supposed to be a dumbing down of the content.
"And as long as you're competent and can follow directions, then you should be able to do the content."
" Raids shouldn't require you to spend hours, and hours, and hours of prep/wipping just to see the content."
Those two statements contradict each other. Those who spend hours and hours of prep/wiping fall into one of two catagories
1. You are trailblazing new content (if you're not in Ensidia & Co., you don't apply)
2. You are lacking in the "competent and follow directions" part.
By nerfing Ulduar yet again, more people who lack competence and who cannot follow directions will be able to clear the content.
Sorry, people like you should try to rise to the standards of the game, rather then have the game lobotomized down to your level.
Raiding wasn't meant for everyone, and it shouldn't be for everyone.
- If you don't like spending a few hours wiping and then reveling in the thrill of actually downing the boss, then don't Raid. (btw, if your guild has skill, once you have the boss fight learned, there is no more wiping)
- If you don't like to know your spec inside out, pick your professions careful, research rotations, stats, enchants, consumables, then don't Raid.
- If you aren't prepared to 'work to play', then don't Raid.
Nobody is forced to Raid. If you don't like it, then don't play WoW.
There are tons of people standing in line at the Welfare office who think just like you; that they are entitled to something without putting forth any work. But such is the reality when you have a generation who think they are entitled to the best of everything, regardless of how little effort they expend.
Kids today...very sad.
Karilyn Apr 29th 2009 11:29AM
"Because you practice golf for 5 hours a week, you think you should have a place with Tiger Woods on the PGA tour? I think now."
That's an excellent analogy.
Nope, you should not be able to play on the PGA tour. However, should you be allowed to be able to play on the same course against easier opponents? Absolutely, and guess what... people are allowed to play!
Hard mode is the PGA tour. Easy mode is for the people who practice 5 hours a week and just wanna have some fun on the course.
Michael Apr 29th 2009 11:49AM
@turkeyspit
1. I am thinking you should take your own advice and not raid if you are not "Ensidia & Co."
2. GTFO with your shitty attitude. I am guessing you are the cesspool of trash that circulates the forums bragging how you got such and such down. Truth be told, you were carried cause you, yourself have become a mediocre raider. I can say this since that is what you are saying above, that all raids are EZMode and anyone with half a brain can do them. So grats, you have just proved that a person with half a brain(You) can kill boss' in Ulduar.
turkeyspit Apr 29th 2009 12:15PM
@ Karilyn
So let's agree that PGA Tour = Hard Mode
Can we say a regular golf tournement = Easy mode, which differs from a casual round of golf?
If no, then again we are at an impasse. Raiding shouldn't be considered (or made to become) a pick-up game. It should require organization, preparation, and dedication.
If you do agree that a regular golf tournament = Easy Mode, then what Blizzard is essentially doing here is saying:
"for non PGA Tournaments, it's ok to take 'mulligans', you are not required to meet the dress code standards, and are free to use any equipment you want, be it a golf club or a hockey stick"
A lot of people play golf casually but don't aspire to participate in tournaments. But, the tournaments are OPEN to everyone, but THEY have to meet the standards of the Tournament, and not the other way around.
@ Michael
LOL
/soothe
Michael Apr 29th 2009 4:21PM
Curious?
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-achievements.xml?r=Echo+Isles&cn=Turkeyspit&gn=Magic+and+Mayhem
Juissi May 4th 2009 9:57AM
First i just gotta say that i dislike the nerfing of ulduar so fast but;
To all the guilds who couldn't get past XT or Ignis
- was each member's gear properly enchanted, gemmed, and of sufficient iLV for this tier?
- did each member properly research the fights?
- did each member bring sufficient consumables?
- did each member have the necessary MODs installed?
Well so much for the 'more challenging' part I guess. At least my guild can say we downed all the above bosses 'pre-nerf'.
Tell me honestly would u have downed all the bosses pre-nerf if u DID NOT watch tactics from internet and use add-ons, i mean really... internet is da great satan in todays gaming showing you step-by-step how to do things, u just have to copy that but don't come saying that it's too easy because, basically u have cheated ^^ i remember blaster master in nintendo was superhard and u couldn't check internet for help in those days..
Zumacrume Apr 29th 2009 9:53AM
why are all the hardcore raiders, and the people who firmly deny being a hardcore raider (IM IN A XCASUALXGUILDX lul) commenting so much and not off raiding? If you're locked out for the week already (I mean, resets were yesterday, amirite?) I suggest you go play FFXI to soak up all this free time you have.
Sneakums May 1st 2009 10:20AM
these changes are not merited at all. its a load of bull that when a perfectly tuned instance comes out, they have to beat it with the nerf stick via hotfixes since its been released. my guild and i are only up to the Kologarn. We spent 3 1/2 hours monday night wiping on Ignis, but that just made our downing him that much more enjoyable. our healers loved the slag pot bit because it challenged their ability to heal. most people died at first, but after 2 hours, they got it perfect. nothing beats doing new content at your own pace with your guild and having fun doing it! all these nub players just want an instance they can fly through and get welfare epics like naxx!if they continue to nerf ulduar with these "tweaks" so that shit players can pug it, i will have lost all hope in Blizzard to deliver difficult content
Tempes Magus May 2nd 2009 6:24PM
Bad players can pug anything, but they won't ever succeed. Bad players can't even succeed at Nax.
Blizzard is making it so most players can actually expect to be able to clear Ulduar in a PUG as long as most or all of the members are geared well(not perfect) and skilled(not 1337 but know how to play their toon which they should at level 80).
NEWS FLASH: Most players who attempt the raid are skilled. The ones who aren't just avoid it.
By the way, you can just not raid with them the next time if you can't stand them. Most of you seem to be complaining about poor playing guild members though which is your own fault for letting them in.
I wonder why they wanted to join you? Maybe somebody told them "find a raiding guild and get better skills". No wonder you raid with so many bad players. You just won't help them even when you tell them to find help.
James Riggs Apr 29th 2009 9:58AM
There = some place other than here
Their = collective possessive
They're = They are
As in "changes to other encounters "highly likely" to occur once THEY'RE done with these"
I didn't pay any attention to sentence diagramming either, but I never could figure out why the imbeciles in class couldn't get this simple distinction. Learn to write or go back to consoles where there's no keyboard.
Eliah Hecht Apr 29th 2009 9:59AM
Apologies. I swear I know the difference; I must have just been writing hurriedly. Thanks for the correction.