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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsShould every class be a hybrid?
by Matthew Rossi 
Apr 30th 2009 at 2:00PM
Should this be the case? Or should the remaining four 'pure' DPS classes... the Rogue, Mage, Warlock, and Hunter... be given the same 'hybrid' flexibility as the other six? We've seen great changes from the old days especially with the release of Wrath of the Lich King bringing real viability for hybrid classes to fulfill whatever role they spec and gear for, especially with tanking and healing: each tanking class can perform the MT role, for instance, although each can be said to have strengths and weaknesses to some degree in certain aspects (Warriors and Druids struggle with AoE tanking compared to Paladins and DK's, for instance). Some healing classes excel at group healing, others at tank healing, but all should be more than capable of solo healing a five man and all are valuable in raids.
Where this breaks down is in the case of DPS. Since there are no classes that can only tank or only heal (how would a 'pure healing' class ever solo anything? Heal themselves until the mobs got bored and dropped their loot in frustration? Go team cleric indeed) it's not seen as unbalancing if all the tank classes are at parity or as close as is possible with different abilities and different encounters. After all, even if there are four classes competing for your role you can always choose to respec to a different one, or at least that's the logic usually seen. But since the DPS classes only DPS, and can't respec to a different role, you have to give DPS classes a small edge as DPS so that they won't get swamped. After all, only four classes can tank out of ten, and only four classes can heal out of ten, but all ten can DPS. You need to give the pure DPS classes an edge if they're going to stay worthwhile.
The difference between hybrid DPS and pure DPS classes in Wrath was deliberately reduced. Whereas before, the pure DPS classes were expected to always be on top and be well ahead of other classes, now it's expected to be close so that a skilled, well geared player of a hybrid class should be able to put out competitive DPS especially when compared to a less skilled player of a DPS class. This does, however, lead to the idea that we're still seeing a hierarchy here: if you choose one of the four 'pure' DPS classes, and are as geared and skilled as a hybrid player, you should almost always have an edge on that player.
Since WoW abandoned the idea that there was one tanking class and two classes that could offtank or trash tank, and abandoned the idea that there was one main healing class and three 'also rans' that can heal if there's no cloth wearing healer available, it seems to me that it's time to abandon this last vestige of the old design. There's no reason that the choice you made at level 1 should help or hinder your DPS automatically any more than it should hamper your tanking ability or healing ability. If you choose to be a DPS player, you should be on as close a playing field as Blizzard can maintain while still keeping the classes flavor distinct and mechanics independent. But how to go about this?
Give all classes a secondary role at the minimum. Paladins and Druids will of course remain the ultimate hybrids, with the ability to fulfill all three roles in a raid, and perhaps Shamans can gain tanking viability too, but more importantly the four 'pure' classes will be given a role that fits their flavor and abilities. Since of the four DPS classes in question we have two pet classes, it's not hard to imagine Hunters and Warlocks becoming Tank/DPS with a revamp of the Beast Mastery and Demonology trees. But what about Mages and Rogues?
One possibility would be to break the trinity of DPS, tank and healing up in some way. We already see this to some extent as the physical DPS vs. magical DPS argument, or the ranged vs. melee one, but there's also the concept of mezzing/debuffing that other MMOs are more distinct about. WoW has this in the form of CC like polymorph and sap and debuffs like Curse of Elements or Blood Frenzy, but these tend to be stripped down in current play. In the current edition of the pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons game (which heavily borrows from MMOs) there are four roles, defenders (roughly analagous to WoW tanks), leaders (effectively the game's 'healing' classes), strikers (the damage dealers) and Controllers, who specialize in damaging or inconveniencing groups of mobs and fit into the mezzer/debuffer category.
Both the WoW Rogue and Mage could fill this role. You could spec to be a pure damage dealer with minmal crowd control and debuff options, or spec into talents that increase your ability to slow/root/ snare and weaken your enemies. Mages would by necessity be the stronger at area debuffing/mezzing while rogues would specialize in single target, which would probably mean they'd need stronger debuffs and more ways to apply them. In order for this to work, of course, we'd need to move away from AoE tanking as it currently stands: in effect, mages and rogues would assume some of the burden for controlling and debuffing groups of adds to keep them from swarming a group that is currently the role of the AoE tank using Thunder Clap, Swipe, Consecrate or Death and Decay. In a way, it would be a step back to the days when a five pull in Blackrock Spire meant three mobs would have to be CC'd. As such, I don't know if it would work in the current game, but the game has changed in the past to allow classes to gain new roles, it could do so again. Abilities like Tricks of the Trade point to one way we could allow rogues to help AoE tanking by giving their threat to other players.
In the end I wouldn't expect any such sweeping changes anytime soon. We already have a lot of classes in World of Warcraft who can do more than one role in a group, it's possible that's all we need.
Filed under: Druid, Hunter, Mage, Paladin, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, The Burning Crusade, Death Knight, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 10 of 10)
fernando May 4th 2009 4:36AM
an arrow that heals would be like a bandage that makes dps
Azhoul May 5th 2009 3:56PM
I personally lead a raiding guild, and play a pure DPS. To be perfectly frank, part of me feels guilty to the team by playing said class.
I'm a good player, and know alot about the game. I'm an avid theorycrafter, so min/maxing is fun to me. But the inability to fill roles that we need as a raid group, and the fact that my DPS is comparable to hybrids, when they bring so much more utility to the table, is unsettling.
While you may say "Play what you want" sometimes if you can't find that last tank or healer, it's not about playing what you want, but simply playing. Instead of saying in a raid "Okay, you, can you respecc resto for this encounter?" I'd rather say, "Okay, I'll respecc resto for this encounter." so that my members can do just that; play what they want.
Just to clarify, I am in-fact working on a hybrid already. =P
Also note: Warlocks can tank. I believe there was a video here on the site detailing a warlock's VWer that tanked Sarth +3. The damage mitigation and healthpool they recieve is just sick.
Personally, I would love to see classes become hybrids. I mean, DK's are unique in that they don't tank with a shield, similarly to Druids, which are also unique. Letting people fill other roles doesn't remove the unique style of the class. Not all DPS are the same, so why would all hybrid-ized classes?
What Blizzard is trying to do by making content easier and have the "bring the player not the class" deal, is to make raids and end-game content more accessible.
Not everyone wants to grind rep with so-and-so faction for weeks on end just so they can have a chance to wipe repeatedly. If you DO like that, do it anyway. No one is stopping you. Just understand you're not going to be a unique snowflake because you did so.
The error though, is that Blizzard hasn't made all classes equal in ability to do tasks. The playstyle should always be different, but capability? Not so much. To make so-and-so encounter require a specific class doesn't help raid groups who can't supply it. For me as a leader it becomes 100% more stressfull, because now not only are we lacking a tank, we're lacking this guy to do that one specific thing!
I like raids being accessible, I like the Skill = Ability, not class. But I don't like people being totally screwed over because when they were new to the game the read an outdated class description and thought it was cool.
HumbleOpinion May 5th 2009 2:44PM
The biggest problem with the Pure vs Hybird theory is the fact it will NEVER be happy either way. Hybrids were FORCED into healing endgame and THAT WAS ALL. Even though hybrids had 2 other good specs, healing is all PURE class guilds would see in a hybrid. So yes, I am happy to see hybrids have their day. This will always be a fight as WoW is around. But I will agree on one thing... CC and kiting used to be a big part of the game than it is now so those classes that were best for that (mages, hunters) are going the boot. The constain nerfing of the game for one button, I don't have time to really play WoW, console players is what will end WoW.
denton May 7th 2009 3:16PM
Thank you, Azhoul exactly my thoughts.
When I played a rogue and hunter as my alts I never had any more trouble finding a group for 5mans than with my so-called "hybrid" warrior or shaman - in fact, sometimes I'm even happy about NOT being able to fill any other role than dps because with my "hybrids" I usually end up being the idiot who goes and respecs because everyone else can't be arsed filling one of the "uncool" roles or didn't even bother to collect a second gear set in the first place ...
Having all the "pures" complaining about the versatility of "hybrids" and how they can't find any raid spots or groups for 5mans, and that "hybrid" dps should therefore be punished by a damage tax seems pretty ridiculous from that point of view.
Antonio May 8th 2009 10:17PM
Every one of these comments is missing a big balancing point that was trying to be fixed when they made the hybrids more viable damage dealers... PvP. When you put a class out there that can fulfill several jobs but none of them perfectly, that class gets pwn'd in pvp. This is why the Rogue and Hunter and Lock and Mage were the kings of PvP for so long. Then they finally got Wars up to strength and Pallies followed suit.
I agree with the fact that pure classes need more utility but imo, the utility is there, encounters have just become easier because 40 man raids are a pain in the neck. Blizz is doing a fantastic job of balancing the classes against each other.
There are two very different games going on here, raiding and pvping. This is why you see such similar gear come from the pvp quarter masters and from tier gear, so people can do either. When the hybrid classes were obviously getting wailed on in pvp, Blizz changed it, so now they just have to re balance raiding, and it will come; i have no reason to believe that Blizz isn't working on such a thing.
efrdman2008 May 20th 2009 2:26AM
hey, just a quick thought, i think that the Pure DPS classes are, and i know im gonna get yelled at for this, easier to play. i mean, i play a FFB spec mage, and it is basically stand in the back, and click the 4 spells u need. same with hunter, i mean, they play with a built in tank(which is the same case as the warlock). the only exception i can find to to this rule is the rogue, which has a bit more of a complicated game mechanic
Entbark Jun 2nd 2009 9:05AM
See, the issue with making hybrid dps lesser than "pure" dps is that all the hybrids will re-roll mages, warlocks, hunters, and rogues. As you probably are aware, most players like to dps. There are always more dps spots than tank spots or healing spots. If hybrid dps is reduced, no serious raiding guild will bring moonkin, retadins, spriests, non-resto shaman, or dps warriors. If someone rolls a moonkin, it's usually because they want to dps. A moonkin can't heal that well (in a pinch, it works) and they can't tank in a pinch because Blizz often makes them wear cloth. If they can't go to a raid because their dps is too low, they will re-roll a mage. And then there will be too many "pure" classes being played, so it will be that much more difficult to find tanks and healers.
TL;DR: Dps for hybrids is an incentive to play a hybrid dps since they will be expected to tank/heal sometimes (or all the time).
Polygnomial May 30th 2009 11:50PM
I've played Rogue since WoW was released and it used to be AMAZING. Rogues would absolutely destroy everyone in PvP (assuming you could stun lock well) and out-damage everyone in PvE. It was pretty great. Sure other hybrid classes were weak, especially Druids and Shamans (until a later buff to both). Rogues played to their description, massive damage and poor survivability. I didn't mind that because of my damage potential. Also there were areas specifically tailored to rogues, which I'm sure some of my older rogue allies can attest to. Mages were the ONLY other class that could wipe the floor with people quickly.
When the BC came out Rogue roles changed, we became less useful but our DPS still remained powerful. We were also lethal in BG's still (but resilience SUCKS). I highly enjoyed the Burning Crusade also but was a bit disappointed at how Rogues were handled, especially at the end of the life cycle when others hybrid classes were doing more or equal dps. I still got into every raid because my dps was always #1.
WotLK basically made rogues useless. The addition of the DK made it possible for a plate wearing class with higher survivability and dual abilities to take over my spot. I mean who needs a rogue who can't do anything but dps (and not even in the top 5/10 when first released). Sure they buffed combat in a recent patch but I was still near the top battling it out with other hybrid classes with similiar gear.
Put it this way: As soon as they took our stuns and massive damage away from us we became useless. Doing the same dps as a healing/hybrid class is pathetic. Personally I liked it when some classes were the uber dps, even if it's not me, and others are more suited to healing/buffing or tanking/smaller dps. I should not see a fury/arms warrior doing more dps than a rogue. FFS.
I stopped playing my rogue because, well, in our raids when other classes became as geared as me I started to hear -- well we prefer to take the Shaman because in a pinch they can heal or the warrior because they can tank if need be. Or the Druid. Or the Paladin. or the DK.
So the class I love in WoW more than anything -- the Rogue, has been reduced to being a garbage PvP spec only. I mean in PvE you can do decent dps but it's not the same as lvl 60 and lvl 70 where you were #1 (if you had talent), you actually dealt massive damage and people had to make sure you watched your threat. Sigh.
This game gets worse every single expansion for us Rogues. I wouldn't be shocked if they let us get an auto 80 Paladin in the next expansion to just tell us to just give up.
goldstar_16 Oct 28th 2009 6:34AM
Ok, so I understand where you are coming from....But its more complicated then that, and you will have some people extremely upset if this happens. First off, lets examine the warrior perspective. I dare u to explain to me how a fury warrior is not a pure dps class, and should be labeled as a hybrid. What buffs/abilities does a fury warrior bring to a raid? Battle shout? Nope, its negated by pally's blessing of might. Demoralizing shout? Nope, its negated by pally talent/ability that does the exact same thing. Trauma? Nope, its negated by the mangle talent of a druid that is up constantly instead of just a proc. Can I heal myself and others the way a druid, pally, or shaman can? Nope. Arms brings some abilities such as blood frenzy that increases all physical damage by 4 percent, and shattering throw that has a 5 min CD, but thats all. Arms can do no where near the dps of other melee classes. Then examine tanking. So yes, I have a tanking spec, but pally's are clearly better raid tanks in this expansion, and I do not see very many warrior tanks anymore for raiding. So what does a fury warrior bring to a raid? Commanding shout that gives roughly 2480 health to the raid, and the ability to sunder which is exactly the same as a rogues expose armor ability. Having to sunder if a warrior tank isnt present reduces your dps just as keeping expose armor up would for a rogue. So what do I trade being labeled a "hybrid" and doing less dps then a ''pure dps'' class for? The ability to tank some 5 mans to gear up for raiding, and only have to tank if a pally tank isnt available? Awesome, there went 75 percent of warcraft's population of warriors.
sziszi Jan 8th 2010 5:47AM
I realy dont see it this way. Every wow player I know of have at least 2 level 80s by now. If they wana do something else, they just log out-log in and go heal or tank or whatever. I respeccing into something else maybe once /Xpac and I 'll be glad this hybrid/pure class nonsense disapear once for all.
Because when Im i a raid as hybrid dps I work as hard as pure dps's, I pay same montly fee for blizzard, so why should be sad after fight when I see other people doing better than me?
Blizz should make up some new ideeas, mainly give pures better raid utility. Make expose weeknes important for mellee, make Curse of elements important for magic dps, give them some debuff maybe, like make the hunters boss-miss thing important, and make up with something for the mages, too, like an AoE chil effect wich slows bosses, too a little or something?
caramon May 17th 2010 1:15AM
WARNING: THIS COMMENT CONTAINS MAJOR SPOILERS.
Hybrid classes, which either tank and/or heal, but always dps, do so in the end to be able to level easier. Simply make their dps less enough at max level and 'Voila!', problem solved, everyone is viable again.
The argument extends to 3-way hybrids versus 2-way: since everyone is guaranteed to dps at a minimum, any class capable of healing and tanking should be less capable at both compared to those classes which only do healing or only do tanking.
In essence, it comes down to this at max level:
1) Mages, rogues, hunters, and warlocks have the maximum DPS potential.
2) Priests (with 2 healing specs) have maximum healing, while Shaman (with 1 healing spec and 2 dps) have medium healing. Druids and Paladins have the least healing potential (compared to their 2-way hybrid competition).
3)Warriors and DK's (being 2-way hybrids) have maximum tanking potential [come Cataclysm their 3 trees will serve comparible purposes]. Druids and Paladins have less tanking potential (compared to their 2-way hybrid competition).
4) Warriors, DK's, and Shaman (with 2 dps specs) have medium DPS potential, while Druids, Priests, and Paladins have the least DPS potential (compared to their 2-way hybrid competition)
--Any breaks from this balancewise are completely and utterly absurd, given the finite yet comparable availability of roles within and between each class (up to 3 roles, and exactly 3 trees). Finer points such as CC, dispels, buffs, and secondary play mechanics should be balanced by class as appropriate, possibly giving the most buff potential to the 3-way hybrids to ensure their viability.