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4-30-2009 @ 2:08PM
Yes everyone should be able to do everything and use every item, and preferably be both genders and on every side of every faction./troll offI think hybrid classes have enhanced the game, but I don't think its justification to make everyone hybrid. I think class distinctions are at the heart of the game, and speaking as a pure DPS class myself, I don't crave being able to do double or triple-duty as tank or healer.
4-30-2009 @ 2:15PM
I've never understood this whole "Hybrid VS Pure" debate.Blizzards viewpoint seems to be that if they make hybrids as good as pure classes in terms of DPS, people will suddenly reroll hybrid and never look at the pure classes again.That's some of the most nonsensical shit ever, people play a class because they like it, not because they can spec into 3 different role.They should just drop this topic altogether.
4-30-2009 @ 2:25PM
@KassuThat's not necessarily true. There are a lot people that DO roll a particular class just because it is a hybrid and it allows them to be 2-3 character roles in one. So in fact, I do believe it has impact on what class a person chooses.
4-30-2009 @ 2:26PM
I think the idea the way the author detailed it is terrible but I think the heart of it is valid.Hybrids bring so much more than pure classes do (as the game is now with dual specs) and offer enough more flexibility that to me I cant imagine playing a pure class anymore. Its just more fun to be able to fulfill several different roles. (In my guild we trade jobs on our 5 man runs so people arent stuck healing/ tanking all the time)They simple dont do enough more damage (sometimes less) to make up for being stuck in one role. Also I will add that currently cloth classes do not get enough to merit being two-shotted. Arms warriors are hella fun right now.
4-30-2009 @ 2:39PM
Time and time again I stress that this is the nonsense underlies bring the player not the class. Because why have any classes at all? If every class is a hybrid class then being a Rouge vs a Mage is mere empty naming, the differences are cosmetic only. The fundamental problem is that if there is no real impact on game play, then calling such differences "classes" is simply a lie. On the other hand, if you group different abilities into different classes such that they have a real impact on game play, then it is impossible to institute bring the player not the class. If class differences don't have enough impact on game play that certain classes are absolutely 100% required in certain encounters, then whatever you have anymore it's not a class. Distinction must have real meaning otherwise such distinctions are meaningless. I for one thought that what they did to Druids was terrible and I play a Druid. Druids should not be just as good as everyone else in all three roles. It completely robs them on their identity.
4-30-2009 @ 2:40PM
The problem is that if you play a pure dps class and are looking for a guild or are newly 80 and want to justify a raid spot it's hard now. Your argument used to be "Look, I'm good and can outdps a hybrid by a good amount" so you were recruited to increase the dps of a group by s significant margin. This isn't true in Wrath. Say you're a rogue - cat dps will come close to you and if the person playing the cat is open to it they can grab offspec gear for tanking or healing and dual spec... giving them flexibility in addition to dps that's basically the same as yours (assuming similar gear/skill from both players). However, the solution isn't to hybridize pures, but to remember that pures bring other things to the tables and to design encounters to use those. Wrath has killed CC... but it's useful again on some Ulduar trash to sheep... that's something the mage can bring. Anestheic poison and Fan of Knives in Sarth is another. In short, I think this is more a failure of encounter design than class design. Bring the player is good overall for the game, but the encounters need to get past the "pull, AoE, heal, pull again" mode and use the secondary skills that classes bring. CC, but also things like new poisons for rogues that are imaginative counters for the abilities of mobs, etc.
4-30-2009 @ 3:12PM
I think your life in WoW is rather sad then, if you think you must play a class that suits your raid group. Seriously. If your guild is pushing to take someone over you because they are a hybrid and you're a pure, then you need to find a new guild. Because that's just stupid.
4-30-2009 @ 3:22PM
Sheeping is great and all, but what about kiting or snares or stunlocks for cc? I agree- it's a failure of encounter design.Make a mob that will hit for 100k unmitigatable damage to melee and let Mages or Hunters kite it while melee has to watch thier threat for once. Have the same mob be able to be permastunned by rogues. Warlock fears or some new mechanic - I guess some pets offtank? The same wash, rinse and repeat is definately getting a little old.I do remember those days in UBRS where I polymorphed one mob and kited another until we could get around to killing it.
4-30-2009 @ 3:35PM
@kassu"Blizzards viewpoint seems to be that if they make hybrids as good as pure classes in terms of DPS, people will suddenly reroll hybrid and never look at the pure classes again."Newsflash: That's Blizzard's viewpoint because that IS the case. Not the extreme straw-man version you posted, but it's plain as day that many will leave pure DPS classes if another class offers equivalent DPS + extra. Just look at class trends since Wrath narrowed the gap, especially since dual specs.
4-30-2009 @ 3:41PM
I agree, there are also good reasons not to have every class bring a certain buff to the game, and ultimately I think that hybridization is creating more problems than it's solving.Replenishment is a good example of a hybrid buff that has been shared and seems to be somewhat of a nusiance now that it is an expected raid buff.http://fatchickstank.blogspot.com/2009/04/over-on-wowinsider.html
4-30-2009 @ 6:02PM
@placeboRogues can't currently stunlock worth a damn in a pve situation - warrior tanks tend to stun the mobs in a situation like that, and so do Pallies, or Priests -- which puts diminishing returns on Rogue stuns. so they get 5 second stun from whomever, then Rogue comes in, builds CPs blows a Kidney shot and WHAM 1second stun, then Immune. -_- wtb my non-diminishing returns back.
4-30-2009 @ 6:21PM
Hunter to an extent can already "tank" with their pets. Just give them yet another pet talent (on tenecity pet) that will actually allow the pets to tank a raid encounter that is not on farmed status, and we're all set for them. Hell, they can even turn into a mini priest for their own "tank".I suppose Warlock could receive the same buff with a talent to upgrade their void walkers a bit.Not sure on how Rogues and Mage would receive their secondary roles though.
5-01-2009 @ 10:11AM
I agree with Daniel. I think something's been lost with BTPNTC - specifically, the uniqueness of each class/spec. Encounters should change rather than the classes. I know they had good intentions - they didn't want certain classes to be shut out of end-game. But that should be where the challenges to designing the encounter comes in - have different class combinations have various benefits - more synergy perhaps. Or if you want to limit abilities do so on encounter by encounter basis so that abilities that might make the class too OP for that fight won't be nerfed for the rest of the game.Also, I guess with the competitiveness of Progression guilds, fairness and common sense goes out the window. I don't raid so I don't feel that sort of pressure but I know people will respec, completely regear, put up with abuse, whatever, just to get a slot in the primary raid group of a top raiding guild. (In a way, that's part of the problem). Too bad there isn't some sort of reward to guilds for being more inclusive with class/specs.And no, I don't think all classes should be hybrids. But I do think pure classes should be a bit better at what they do than hybrid classes of equal gear and skill. Actually, with the ability to respec on the spot that gives hybrids even more advantage (i.e, more desirable to raids) maybe pure classes should be even better than before at delivering damage, or be able to bring better buffs.
5-04-2009 @ 11:35AM
although i would not want to see the pure classes get new roles, (alright im a lock, and meta almost lets us be tanks... i would not have a problem with that one) when i look at the current pure classes im reminded of my days as an everquest bard, in everquest there were two classes that were supportive damage(I.E absolutly abysmall)/crowd controll/buffers and debuffers, the bard and enchanter respectivly, the damage buffs and enimy debuffs were easily equal to having another dps class when added to the group, and it was imparitive that you had one with you. instead of going for hybrids for the pures, i feel they should have focused on these aspecs on the pures(instead of negating them in wotlk) warlocks, affliction especially, would make great debuffers, imagine the damage mitigation with an AE curse of weakness on pulls, or something of the sort. mages having better roots and slows on their ice spells, and a hunter being able to offtank adds with two pets or something if BM specced(with significant damage reduction mind you)... and thats not even looking at possibilities with traps. i think it would have been great for these guys to have been given some other archtype outside of the dps/tank/healer mix. and there are tons of possiblilities, but as it stands we will probably never see them.
1-08-2010 @ 5:37AM
I realy dont see it this way. Every wow player I know of have at least 2 level 80s by now. If they wana do something else, they just log out-log in and go heal or tank or whatever. I respeccing into something else maybe once /Xpac and I 'll be glad this hybrid/pure class nonsense disapear once for all. Because when Im i a raid as hybrid dps I work as hard as pure dps's, I pay same montly fee for blizzard, so why should be sad after fight when I see other people doing better than me?Blizz should make up some new ideeas, mainly give pures better raid utility. Make expose weeknes important for mellee, make Curse of elements important for magic dps, give them some debuff maybe, like make the hunters boss-miss thing important, and make up with something for the mages, too, like an AoE chil effect wich slows bosses, too a little or something?
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