Martin Fury: What would you have done?
So the question is: what would you have done? Lots of players say they wouldn't have touched it, and that it was clearly an item they shouldn't have had. Others say that Karatechop and his guild did what anyone would have done -- it was Blizzard's mistake and they were just taking advantage of it. We'd like to know, so here's a poll: what would you have done if Martin Fury showed up in your mailbox?
| Not touched it at all, it's not my item | |
|---|---|
| Played around with it a bit, maybe killing mobs a few times in the overworld | |
| Saved it for future use, in Icecrown or elsewhere | |
| Headed straight for PvP and rocked Wintergrasp | |
| What Karatechop did: rolled through progression content |
Of course, Karatechop eventually got banned for what he did, but answer that question under the premise that he didn't necessarily know that at the time. And there's another question here: lots of players say that they are surprised Karatechop and his guild didn't open a GM ticket right away -- clearly Blizzard didn't mean to send him the item, and he should have contacted them to get it back. But others aren't so sure. The second question is: no matter what you did with the item, would you have told the GMs about it?
| Yes | |
|---|---|
| No |
Filed under: Items, Polls, Virtual selves, Odds and ends, Blizzard






Reader Comments (Page 12 of 16)
Karilyn May 1st 2009 4:49PM
I honestly find it rather sad that roughly half of people would have not submitted the GM ticket.
What ever happened to taking personal responsibility for yourself? Instead of blaming others?
JLocke May 1st 2009 4:51PM
@ Karilyn
I agree with you
komamura May 1st 2009 4:53PM
To be honest, Account be damned, I be going out to have some fun before the ban
Mystic May 1st 2009 5:00PM
I really don't think its right or fair that they got banned. Especially those in the guild who had nothing to do with the raid. After all it was Blizzard who mad the mistake not them.
Now I may have had my head in the sand for the last 3 1/2 years but this was the first time I ever heard of Martins Fury. I was hacked last year and if I had received this item I probably would have checked it out simply because I didn't know what it was. However once I realized what it could do I probably would have tried to find out just what the heck it was and then open a ticket. But to get a ban because of a mistake made by Blizz? Oh come on! I would like to know what happened to the person who sent it. Did they get fired?
Tanzier May 1st 2009 5:15PM
I would have probably done the same thing he did - except I probably would have waited until the world and even the server firsts were out of the way. If he had used this item to clear Naxx, probably nobody would have ever noticed.
Birdfall May 1st 2009 5:27PM
If I got an item that wasn't mine to begin with and it could accomplish insane feats like that, I'd automatically ticket about it.
Not because I'm such a nice person but because I'm not an idiot. I put a crap-lot of work into my characters and I am NOT about to have my account banned or suspended for a quick joy ride.
I think Blizzard shouldn't have auto-banned, but they should have taken away all their ill-gained spoils, achievements, and given them a Final Warning about using things that don't belong to them.
Still, Blizzard had good reason. If a valet gives you a new BMW instead of your ancient Honda, you'll still go to jail if you take the BMW. It's common sense.
Blizzard made the mistake, but the players took advantage of that mistake. Legally, they're culpable, and Blizzard clearly states that knowingly (in this case, using the item and seeing that it kills megabosses is KNOWING) exploiting the game is bannable:
http://birdfall.blogspot.com/2009/01/taboo-or-are-ignore-and-report-ever.html
Vhalkirian May 1st 2009 5:34PM
My question is...if he got banned for "The character, "Karatechop," on the realm "Vek'nilash" was found to have obtained an item (inaccessible by standard game play) from another player and trivialized the World of Warcraft raid contents with the exploitive use of this item." as blizzard put it. Did the Developer who sent him the item get fired? I understand that he abused the item taking it into Ulduar..and imo..should have been banned, but not a permanent ban, imo. BUT Blizzard is also at fault here...So I really dont understand why the took such a "hardcore" stance when they are at fault just as much as he is...unless there is a lot more info to this story than has been released.
Manatank May 1st 2009 5:36PM
"The entire situation could make an interesting case study for a college ethics class. What happens when you give power to someone with the mentality of a 12-year-old (Whether Karatechop actually is 12 or not, he certainly acted like a child.) Will they do the right thing or will they abuse the power? In this case, as with so many people who have posted comments in articles like this, the answer is to exploit for all their worth and damn the consequences."
You are the one who is making the assertion that exploiting a game is ethically wrong. You make the statement as though it should be obvious, but it is not a judgment that I would agree with. Where is the harm in it? Who was harmed? How were they harmed? I wouldn't even agree that this is an exploit, but it wouldn't change my opinion if it were.
This is a video game, and the only consequences that have real meaning involve interactions in the game with other real human beings. One-shotting an NPC causes no harm. The only people this affected were the other people in the instance. People who create situations that intentionally hurt the feelings of other players... That's immoral. People who wall jump to stand on top of the AH and dance... Not immoral, but is an exploit.
Can someone please, please explain the ethical dilemma here. It's not cheating if you aren't in a competition.
Birdfall May 1st 2009 5:47PM
To many, this game IS a competition. The raiding race is acknowledged and encouraged by Blizzard and is a part of the game, just like the PVP ratings and tournaments.
The item was an exploit.
They used it enough to realize this.
The fact they convinced themselves they wouldn't or shouldn't get in trouble is immaterial. Their not reading Blizzard's rules does not change the rules.
The rules clearly say knowingly using an exploit = banned.
Blizzard hasn't done anything but stay within their rules. Just because one of their employees gave these players access to the exploit didn't mean the players were blameless when they used it 14 times.
Microtonal May 1st 2009 6:22PM
"Can someone please, please explain the ethical dilemma here. It's not cheating if you aren't in a competition."
No, idiot, the saying is "it's not cheating if you don't get caught." Whether you're doing something competitive or not never enters into it. Cheating at solitaire is still cheating.
Manatank May 1st 2009 6:28PM
"Cheating at solitaire is still cheating."
But are you saying that cheating at solitaire is unethical? I don't see how it could be.
Manatank May 1st 2009 6:42PM
"Blizzard hasn't done anything but stay within their rules. Just because one of their employees gave these players access to the exploit didn't mean the players were blameless when they used it 14 times."
I agree that Blizzard's actions are well within their rights, but I also think they were extreme and disappointing. That isn't the issue I'm trying to discuss. I'm trying to get someone who is making the claim that something unethical happened here to explain what was unethical about it.
Sl0th May 1st 2009 8:33PM
Yes. Yes I am asserting that, in my opinion, exploiting in an MMO is wrong. Does that really put me in the minority here?
The measure of something's ethicality is not the harm that it does. It is whether it was right or wrong. You can try and justify it by saying, "Who was hurt?" But that strikes me as a hollow rationalization. It was still, to me, very obviously the wrong thing to do and Karatechop and those who knowingly went along with him received just punishment for their actions.
As to the arguement that it wasn't cheating because it was not a competition... that's just silly. WoW is built on competition. Most of it is incredibly silly bickering about who slew which virtual dragon before who and who's armor makes them hurt things more efficiently, but the competition is there. Putting that aside, its still cheating by most definitions of the word. He was given an unfair advantage over the rest of the players in the game and used it. As such, it is by definition cheating. Whether cheating is morally wrong is up to the reader to decide, I suppose.
Maybe I'm wrong. But ethics are a funny thing like that. Everyone has their own code, and one person's wrong isn't another person's wrong. And that's part of why I really enjoy this kind of discussion.
theholyevil May 1st 2009 5:44PM
Well saying it was me, I would have know something was wrong the minute I received it. But by no means would have played holyier then thou. I would have taken that straight to AQ40 clear the instance, after all priests can't solo raids :|. Then opened a ticket or go to the forums and explain my situation.
I don't think I would have used it to clear uludar in the least. that's progression, not only does you raid have to learn the fight eventually..... but it takes all the fun out of learning it. Not to mention he pulled the entire guild into it.
IMO if I was one of the raiders seeing a boss get one shot, would I ask questions? yea I would. I don't think the raiders were in the dark in the least.
Then you have the guild members.... first time in uludar, your left out, all the sudden all these "heroic achievements" pop up. You think questions wouldn't be asked then?
Point is if you didn't know something was up in that guild you were either
A. Dumb as hell
B. Playing dumb.
Do I think the guild members who didn't know anything deserve a ban? no. However the people who were on and didn't report or ask question. I can see why blizz was angry with them.
blizz could have handled this with secrecy and stealth, however they chose to make an example of the entire guild, thus exposing the stupidity of both parties. Blizz deserves any criticism they get.
Munky May 1st 2009 6:06PM
If I were Bliz, I would take the achievements away and just have left it alone. They really shouldn't have banned him for this. It was their fault in making it available. I know a lot of people say they they wouldn't have done anything with it. But that's BS.
I don't think they should keep any achievements, but I don't think this was worth banning over. It's like Pandora's Box w/o instructions.
StumbleBumble May 1st 2009 6:23PM
Think of it as joyriding.
Guy from the dealership rides up to your house and hands you the keys to a cherry red Porsche. You know it's not yours. You know (or should know if you're old enough to drive) that you're likely to get in trouble if you use it. You should call the dealership and see what's up.
But no, if you're like 50% of the readership of this forum, you apparently engage in some rationalizing ("they sent it so it's their fault!") and go take it out for a spin. Some of you would just drive it around the block ("I'd use it to kill a boar"). Folks like our hero, the karate kid, would take it to his high school reunion to show off and pretend it was his. Assuming he's a high school grad. . . .
Temujîn May 1st 2009 6:36PM
I would have stored it in my bank and used it to obliterate The Lich King when icecrown came out.
Martin May 1st 2009 7:14PM
My account just got banned for discussion this in the forums.
FYI: Blizzard knows they were wrong, so they are banning anyone from saying so.
Allenny May 1st 2009 6:43PM
These polls are just another bit of proof of how we are failing to teach our children the simple difference between right and wrong :(
treyh37 May 1st 2009 6:49PM
I'd go find one of the spots the lich king spawns for some quest and use it on him. then ss it