Children's Week ruins Battlegrounds

In Alterac Valley, we have forty players and four capturable towers or bunkers. Sure, the opposing faction can defend the towers/bunkers allowing it to be recaptured, but the whole business of racing to capture one -- again, personally -- turns every Alterac Valley into a race. This means lesser chances of defended towers. Realistically, if players tagged and defended until the objective burned down, only 10% of the team would be able to accomplish the Achievement requirement in every match. I'm sorry to tell all those who are allergic to PvP that you'll actually have to play quite a number of Alterac Valley matches just to get this one. Unfortunately for me, on my Battlegroup, playing Horde-side AV is like pulling teeth.
In Eye of the Storm, the goal is to personally capture a flag, which is reasonable enough but it de-emphasizes the fact that capturing a tower is actually more important. The result? A substantial number of players in every Eye of Storm match this Children's Week head towards the center of the map hoping to steal the flag instead of securing a tower first. Way to teach players how to play the Battleground. It becomes so important that even if the faction controls only one tower, players continue to run the flag instead of battling for tower control. The only Battleground requirement with no apparent downside is Arathi Basin, which has generous opportunities for a flag tag. It also doesn't alter the game significantly -- players will run around the map, anyway.
To be honest, I held off on writing about this because I wasn't able to test the content on the PTR, so I couldn't say for certain if the requirements were personal or triggered by vicinity. Now that I've experienced it, I have to say I don't appreciate it. I'm all for making the Battlegrounds more popular and encouraging players to try it... I mean, these are my favorite instances in the game. But a player who doesn't PvP too often finding himself in an excruciatingly long Warsong Gulch battle where nobody is actually trying to win the game isn't going to have a good impression of the Battleground.
The problem is that the School of Hard Knocks didn't seem to be designed with much thought about how it would affect Battleground dynamics. Even I Pitied The Fool didn't create such a frustrating experience in Arathi Basin... I mean, sure, for the first few days everbody was heading to the Blacksmith to do a Mr. T impression, but it didn't have players competing for a single Battleground objective like, say, one flag. That's the problem with the School of Hard Knocks -- it doesn't promote teamwork at all.
None of the requirements actually encourage working together. Blizzard poster Crygil acknowledges that the Achievement is somewhat controversial but says that they "feel that it is not outside of the reasonable spectrum," and adds that Achievements such as capturing the EotS flag are "doable so long as you and maybe a small group of your friends make it a priority."
I'm not arguing about doability. I'm certain that with some effort, players will be able to complete the Achievement. That's not my particular point (although I'm certain many -- and I use this term as gingerly as possible -- carebears are up in arms over the heavy PvP requirement). I'm concerned that the Achievement wasn't designed well at all. It simply feels like some developers picked random Battleground conditions to fulfil without actually playing the game to see what impact it makes. It gives the wrong impression of a Battleground and in some cases, such as Warsong Gulch, can completely skew gameplay towards sheer unpleasantness.
I have to repeat that the Achievement is doable. There's no arguing that. With some effort -- and Achievements should take some effort, after all -- players will be able to complete it. That's not my particular beef with it. It's just bad design that doesn't consider the spirit of the Battleground. Some readers have commented that they got into a lucky Alterac Valley where Alliance and Horde simply took turns tagging the flag to help each other get the Achievement. Well congratulations! You just perverted the Battleground.
I'm usually thrilled when Blizzard includes PvP Achievements in world events, although I know many don't. I think Battlegrounds are absolutely fun and relish every opportunity to get more players to experience it, sometimes for the first time. But shoehorning Achievements into PvP like this makes me wonder if the devs understand their Battlegrounds at all.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Events, Battlegrounds, Achievements






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 12)
Mute20 May 2nd 2009 12:10PM
So true i have all these achievement dummy going in and making sure i lose almost every match since 1> they are doing nothing but trying to get achievement 2> they are all poorly geared and are almost useless 3> they don't do anything after they get there dumb achievement!!!!!
my2cents May 2nd 2009 4:18PM
Maybe I was just really lucky, but I got this achievement done within one game of each battleground. Furthermore, I didn't play the game much differently (just kept an eye out for an opportunity to get my achievement done without screwing up the game,) and there was hardly anyone else going for the achievement! I was pleasantly surprised after reading all the horror stories and dire predictions about the derailing of the bgs. /shrug
MacDisciple May 3rd 2009 7:08AM
True story: Efc went to the roof of ally base. Five ally defenders could not find him. They said he left the building. /sigh. Look at the map!
ttvp May 2nd 2009 12:10PM
Well said.
dan May 2nd 2009 12:11PM
The blame doesn't solely lay on Blizzard's poor design, some of it falls on player's inability to think of anything other than themselves and their achievements.
jcyr May 2nd 2009 12:20PM
or (some) pvp'ers and their need to screw up the achievements to be jerks
dotorion May 2nd 2009 12:27PM
This is the problem, really.
Tip: use a premade. Recruit some healers, some stealthers, look up some PvP tactics (lol @ all the people going 'ewwww PvP') and go hit the battleground.
The achievement requirements are fine. They do contribute to the game, because they are all crucial parts of the game (killing a flag carrier and returning your flag is quite vital for example).
It's just when there's ten idiots that think the game revolves around them that things start going bad.
zero May 2nd 2009 12:32PM
players' inability to think of anything but themselves and their achievements ? what about the pvp-ers inability to think of anything but themselves and their pvp-ing ? they can't let people have one week out of the entire freaking year to do world event achievements in bgs ?
always funny to see selfish people calling other people selfish.
dan May 2nd 2009 12:37PM
I don't actually PvP so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. What i meant was, that if an achievement is available, most player's would sooner put themselves before others.
Draelan May 2nd 2009 3:30PM
@jcyr
Agreed. Had an EotS battle yesterday where one PvPer decided to take matters into his own hands. We were more than halfway down behind the horde, no chance of really winning unless we managed to capture ALL the towers. (Which, given the group, was NOT going to happen.) Yet, this PvPer grabbed the flag and REFUSED TO DROP OR CAP IT, because he "wanted to win" this lost cause.
I laughed my ASS off when a horde death knight charged through our side, past the PvPer, then Death Gripped him to the tower, FORCING him to cap the stupid flag already. lol
dragonmom May 2nd 2009 2:24PM
A better title would be "Battlegrounds Ruin Children's Week."
DanH May 2nd 2009 12:14PM
Speaking as somebody who doesn't PvP and doesn't do achievements, I totally agree.
I don't do battlegrounds because I have no ****ing clue what I'm doing in them, and I play this game because I like working as part of a team to do something together. Stuff like this encourages the kind of infuriating selfish play that is all too common in the game.
Its the equivalent of having the "Hail to the King" achievement require you to land the killing blow on King Ymiron personally.
Shulkman May 2nd 2009 12:21PM
"land the killing blow on King Ymiron personally."
Excellent point.
Elhannan May 2nd 2009 1:12PM
Extremely well-phrased point.
I've posted quite a bit on this, and it's damned rare for me to complain about almost any changes made to WoW, but this one is a fubar.
I don't mind PvP achievements per se, but these ones encourage selfishness and -force- people to move out of their roles as part of a battlegroup to get the achievement.
A healer should be in the back, healing, and getting credit for doing his job. He shouldn't be racing the frackin' melee to click the damn flag.
If they wanted us to do more PvP with this achievement, it should have been made: "Win X battleground with your Orphan out." Or even better - just make it an honour-kill farming exercise.
Sike-O May 2nd 2009 8:31PM
"land the killing blow on King Ymiron personally."
In heroic mode.
It's particularly bad for those playing overseas, as the lag factor makes it even harder. Even if you click it as soon as you are able (and I mean spamming the thing even before the animation comes up), the 700ms+ lag means someone else you see dismount after you started capping gets the achievement.
Talia May 2nd 2009 2:11PM
@Elhannan - yes, exactly, and well put yourself! As you said, healers should be in the back healing, not trying to cap or return flags. I'm a mage - in any regular EotS, if I tried to grab the flag and run with it, the "serious" PvPers on my team would have my hide, because I'm not likely to survive long enough to cap it. I'm a clothie, my bubbles are limited, and I have no innate speed boosts. I'm jeapordizing the match by trying. (Apologies to any PvPing mages who are legitimately hard to kill, as I've heard is often the case these days; I'm still just not that good.) To get this achievement I need to get a friend to grab it, bring it near the base, then (with no hordies around), deliberately drop it and let me grab it and finish capping. Sure, we still cap it, but that's not the point of how the game is supposed to play out. And it risks recapture by dropping it, even if it looks safe around us.
Encourage PvP, invigorate BGs, sure. But don't make objectives that destroy what the match is supposed to be about.
Mindaika May 3rd 2009 3:26AM
Dan's point goes well with the authors. Not everyone wants to PvP, and not everyone wants to PvE. Blizzard wants to force people to do a little PvP for an achievement, and I'm fine with that. The problem though, is HOW they did it. Essentially, they made the achievement "go to a BG and play it the completely wrong way." How many people would want the the Hail to the King achievement to be "Cause a wipe when the boss has less that 5% health."
Personally, I think the achievement should have been along the lines of completing the ACTUAL BG goals (win an AV with your humanpet out), or better yet, made it a choice: Do the Hail to the King, OR do School of Hard Knocks.
Stouph May 2nd 2009 12:15PM
Now what the people are doing is camping the opposition flag in their own flag room to stop people from getting at it in WSG... its horrible!
I personnaly hate PvP and I hate that Blizz doesn't know what the heck their doing with this Hard Knocks achievement! its totally bs
Fyve & Boomstick May 2nd 2009 3:46PM
its counter productive to the spirit of the BG's, and im definately not a fan of what its done.
some of the worst sportsmanship I have ever seen has been in WSG this past few days. Entire teams not even leaving the bases to assault the other, just waiting to recap the flag. Everyone going hell for leather to the frostwolf towers, missing galv, then instead of nuking drek anyway, turning around and running back up to the nearest tower with a bit of red in it. Horrible.
On the other hand, I had the best game of my life in WSG when i completed school of hard knocks, everyone co-operated, not for the achievement, but for the objective of winning. in the course of doing just that, 3 people on my team completed the school of hard knocks and we got a handful of other achievements to boot, Damage Control, Save the Day, WG Perfection. was a really good match.
The problem is not the achievement, its the people who only want to compete on the bg for that achievement, they arent interested in accomplishing anything else while they are there, or even in enjoying it.
If blizzard wanted to get mroe people interested in the battlegrounds, they have failed.
Aramaethien May 7th 2009 10:26AM
The first WSG I went to I capped 4 flags as everyone on my team was in turtle mode, and so too was their group. After the first return very early in the match, I had the WSG leg of the achievment, but I didn't want those that were not playing the BG versus the achievment to gain the leg without earning it. However, I had not considered the ranged fighters who would have a problem completing this as I would already be near the flag.
Overall, I think paladins should have an easier time with this achievement. For instance, with crusader's aura, we are quick and can get to the AV towers easily.