Children's Week ruins Battlegrounds

In Alterac Valley, we have forty players and four capturable towers or bunkers. Sure, the opposing faction can defend the towers/bunkers allowing it to be recaptured, but the whole business of racing to capture one -- again, personally -- turns every Alterac Valley into a race. This means lesser chances of defended towers. Realistically, if players tagged and defended until the objective burned down, only 10% of the team would be able to accomplish the Achievement requirement in every match. I'm sorry to tell all those who are allergic to PvP that you'll actually have to play quite a number of Alterac Valley matches just to get this one. Unfortunately for me, on my Battlegroup, playing Horde-side AV is like pulling teeth.
In Eye of the Storm, the goal is to personally capture a flag, which is reasonable enough but it de-emphasizes the fact that capturing a tower is actually more important. The result? A substantial number of players in every Eye of Storm match this Children's Week head towards the center of the map hoping to steal the flag instead of securing a tower first. Way to teach players how to play the Battleground. It becomes so important that even if the faction controls only one tower, players continue to run the flag instead of battling for tower control. The only Battleground requirement with no apparent downside is Arathi Basin, which has generous opportunities for a flag tag. It also doesn't alter the game significantly -- players will run around the map, anyway.
To be honest, I held off on writing about this because I wasn't able to test the content on the PTR, so I couldn't say for certain if the requirements were personal or triggered by vicinity. Now that I've experienced it, I have to say I don't appreciate it. I'm all for making the Battlegrounds more popular and encouraging players to try it... I mean, these are my favorite instances in the game. But a player who doesn't PvP too often finding himself in an excruciatingly long Warsong Gulch battle where nobody is actually trying to win the game isn't going to have a good impression of the Battleground.
The problem is that the School of Hard Knocks didn't seem to be designed with much thought about how it would affect Battleground dynamics. Even I Pitied The Fool didn't create such a frustrating experience in Arathi Basin... I mean, sure, for the first few days everbody was heading to the Blacksmith to do a Mr. T impression, but it didn't have players competing for a single Battleground objective like, say, one flag. That's the problem with the School of Hard Knocks -- it doesn't promote teamwork at all.
None of the requirements actually encourage working together. Blizzard poster Crygil acknowledges that the Achievement is somewhat controversial but says that they "feel that it is not outside of the reasonable spectrum," and adds that Achievements such as capturing the EotS flag are "doable so long as you and maybe a small group of your friends make it a priority."
I'm not arguing about doability. I'm certain that with some effort, players will be able to complete the Achievement. That's not my particular point (although I'm certain many -- and I use this term as gingerly as possible -- carebears are up in arms over the heavy PvP requirement). I'm concerned that the Achievement wasn't designed well at all. It simply feels like some developers picked random Battleground conditions to fulfil without actually playing the game to see what impact it makes. It gives the wrong impression of a Battleground and in some cases, such as Warsong Gulch, can completely skew gameplay towards sheer unpleasantness.
I have to repeat that the Achievement is doable. There's no arguing that. With some effort -- and Achievements should take some effort, after all -- players will be able to complete it. That's not my particular beef with it. It's just bad design that doesn't consider the spirit of the Battleground. Some readers have commented that they got into a lucky Alterac Valley where Alliance and Horde simply took turns tagging the flag to help each other get the Achievement. Well congratulations! You just perverted the Battleground.
I'm usually thrilled when Blizzard includes PvP Achievements in world events, although I know many don't. I think Battlegrounds are absolutely fun and relish every opportunity to get more players to experience it, sometimes for the first time. But shoehorning Achievements into PvP like this makes me wonder if the devs understand their Battlegrounds at all.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Events, Battlegrounds, Achievements
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Reader Comments (Page 8 of 12)
Greenhorns on Vek May 2nd 2009 3:20PM
@Jagoex my point is that PVE servers shouldn't have PVP I choose to PVE now it would be different if I hod rolled on a PVP server, then i would have nothing to complain about.
but basically requiring PVE'er to participate in juvenile PVP is ludicrous
Jagoex May 2nd 2009 3:39PM
@Greenhorns
I understand that you rolled on a PvE server so that you wouldn't have to deal with PvP -- world PvP can be brutal at times and I would do the same thing if I didn't enjoy having to deal with it almost all of the time. However, that does not make you immune to the Battlegrounds, which are essentially instances with the opposing faction involved.
You do not HAVE to enter the BGs. And you do not HAVE to do so at this time either. But the problem lies in the fact that you WANT to. Right?
There are PvP and PvE aspects to this World Event, and many people are going to find themselves in environments they do not enjoy. And while that may be uncomfortable for a little while, we are not entitled to having this game cater to our own wants (not needs).
Again, if you are a PvE'er, throw together 5 or 10 guildies and group queue. Use your experience to your advantage, and you will get this done without an issue, and without having to deal with the nonsense BG experiences Zach is talking about in his article (for the most part).
Prot May 2nd 2009 3:19PM
In my opinion this achievement would have been so much better as "Win a XXXX Battle with your orphan out." That would have made sense to me.
Instead we have one EotS where the same guy was running to the flag and picking it up and running it back, denying the other people in the BG the chance to even attempt this achievement. In the end we were losing towers because some people had to be at the flag first to even have a chance at a capture.
WSG is by far the worse. In some cases you could have 2 completely turtled flags in which neither side moves causing the battle to go much longer than it already does.
Hopefully this is removed from the Meta achievement otherwise it will not even be worth doing the other stuff since this is going to be near impossible unless the other side cooperates, which is against the spirit of the competition.
Greenhorns on Vek May 2nd 2009 3:37PM
@AutumnBringer:
I fully understand that PVP has a draw to some people. PLAY ON A PVP server.
Avan May 2nd 2009 3:29PM
I guess it's just my battlegroup, but battlegrounds are the absolute worse thing in WoW for me. I tried going after these achievements yesterday as well as today. In my first AV match yesterday, I yelled more expletives at all the stunlocking classes and all the general bullshit than I ever have by playing PvE, both inside or outside an instance.
I do not do PvP. Yes, some idiot will say, "hurr, you aren't forced to get the achievement!" To which I say, I want the fucking drake, so yes, I am. I am being forced to participate in something that I have deliberately stayed away from because it's not fun. It's not like the gnerd rage achievement from halloween where I could piggyback on others by actually contributed as a healer (and y'know, healing). I actually have to put all of my fragile cloth out on the line to do this. It's not fun getting one-shot by mages dks and pallies. It's not fun getting two-shot by hunters mages dks and pallies. It's not fun getting stunlocked by every fucking class under the sun.
If I want the illusion of participating in PvP, then I go to where I can do more than run from shallow grave A to shallow grave B. Like Wintergrasp, or capital city raids. But BGs? How the fuck can I do anything if I'm always dead?
codespace May 2nd 2009 4:17PM
I picked up my achievement within about 5-6 hours of the event starting. It wasn't difficult, and I didn't 'break the game'. It encouraged me to play slightly differently (as a tankadin, I'm not usually noted for my flag-capping), but it was still quite easy and fun.
Cerril May 2nd 2009 3:45PM
I agree with the shortsightedness of the actual achievements. Put this on a year long schedule and it's entirely reasonable. Return one flag? Beats the actual PvP achievement for "return 5 in one match," and the same holds down the list. They're teaser achievements, just enough to make you work but not so hard that they're going to murder people.
Difficulty works the same way. A lot of casual players (who the World Events are largely aimed at) would find leveling up to and getting a group for UP to be on par with getting to 61 and completing the PvP achievements. As a PvE type player, I don't share that view, but I can sympathize.
But at the end of the day, trying to get these four achievements above all else (since, let's face it, the groups of "hardcore PvPers" and "achievement-mongers who absolutely must have their 310 violet proto-drake" don't have a lot of intersection) means you change the style of PvP entirely. The actual goal of the various BGs changes, which means I'm being a jerk to other people trying to get the achievement, and to people who are legitimately trying to win. 10% of a group that is focused only on trying to cap a tower, assault a base, return a flag, or capture a flag is probably going to help a team. 60% is a huge detriment.
ToyChristopher May 2nd 2009 3:50PM
I have never taken so much verbal abuse in a battleground. It almost made me cry!!
ambermist May 2nd 2009 3:57PM
Before I say anything, let me say these two things: 1) I like PvP, although I'm certainly better at PvE. I enjoy doing battlegrounds, and usually, I get really frustrated at the honor kill farmers who run around targeting anything that moves instead of trying to actually win the BG. 2) I got my title at about 8:30 last night. The holiday as a whole is really very, very simple.
Now, that being said, I agree with this post 100%. No, it's NOT too hard, obviously; I did it. But big parts of it were not fun.
AB worked out beautifully; everyone took turns capping flags and protecting those trying to do so, and as a result, we won.
EotS wasn't even that bad, because everyone said right up front that they were after the achievement, so we protected two towers and the middle and people took turns running the flag while those who already had protected them.
But AV and WSG completely ruined it for me. And WSG was easy, but it's pretty disconcerting that I had to deserter out after an hour because we were cooperating with the horde and no one was even trying to win.
For me, AV was a nightmare. 50% of us were going for the achievement, which meant racing to towers like madmen or trading spam clicks back and forth with horde. 50% were there for tasty AV honor or marks, and were thus frustrated and infuriated with the other half. I even totally lost my cool on a paladin who killed the Belf priest who was trading the tower back and forth for us because after seven AV matches, I was just ready to finish the achievement. It wasn't fair to either one of us--she wasn't getting her honor and marks, and I wasn't getting my achievement. She was sorry that I didn't get it, and I am now sorry that I went off on her for doing what BGs were designed for.
It's NOT hard, I am Matron Ambermist today. But it's not a well-designed achievement. It should encourage wins, so that everyone who wants their achievement gets it and everyone who wants their marks gets a fair chance.
vinniedcleaner May 2nd 2009 4:08PM
All aspects of any of the achievements need to either be soloable (ie just you are involved in the activity) or be able to be done in a party/raid (ie one person completes the requirement, everyon in the party receives credit).
Getting acheivements should not encourage ganking/griefing/ninjaing behavior.
David May 2nd 2009 4:04PM
I've never heard more QQing over this small thing than over anything of equal magnitude in the cumulative history of WoW. I really wish the PvP crowd would stop whining one in a while.
charlie May 2nd 2009 4:07PM
I agree that the achievement is difficult (but then that's the point) but also is really not quite on par with others. Having to be the "one " to do it is a bit too far, whereas you just have to be in the group to kill the boss in UP.
Having said that, I did all the Children's Week achievements on both my characters last night, including this one. Knowing what to do, some cooperation between team-mates, and a tiny bit of luck, made it all possible.
It was funny to see the hard-core PvP moaning about those there just for the achievements. Jeez, it's just for one week. Why not help out a bit and share your mighty PvP knowledge.
ScytheNoire May 2nd 2009 4:15PM
Very well put. This achievement is counter-productive to the purpose of Battlegrounds. It encourages poor play and goes against the concept of Battlegrounds. They should have had the achievement be "participate in" the various Battlegrounds, or something more broad, but these specific one's that encourage poor play, just pissing off players going for the achievement and those who regularly play Battlegrounds.
Failure all around. Again.
Sleutel May 2nd 2009 4:17PM
EXACTLY.
The whole achievement is DESIGNED to reward people for being selfish assholes.
If they wanted to promote the BGs, why not require that you WIN an AV, AB, WSG, and Eye with your orphan out?
*headdesk*
RetPallyJil May 2nd 2009 4:32PM
This works both ways, gang:
I say, "Why am I forced to pvp?"
You say, "Carebear! L2P!"
You say, "BGs are being ruined!"
I say, "Hey no-lifes, it's a week! Get over it!"
DanH May 2nd 2009 6:39PM
Is the solution to that not for *both* sides to stop name-calling and admit that the other side does, in fact, have a point.
Particularly since both sides are effectively agreeing?
Jonn May 3rd 2009 12:58AM
Well if that’s the case blizz should’ve warned everybody b/c it was very uncomfortable for me to endure all the insults and /spits from both sides in the BGs while trying to complete this idiotic achievement.
Greenhorns on Vek May 2nd 2009 5:05PM
@Jagoex
I didn't need to queue with a group i didn't say it was hard i "Got the job done" on the first day that wasn't the issue. and you are right I wasn't Forced to enter the battle ground I could throw away the 310% mount. NOT!!! like a 310% mount is aimed at a PVP player. When you can't even fly in battle grounds.
the achievement is obviously aimed at PVE'ers so keep the sub achievements PVE in nature.
I'm not an idiot and I'm not saying that it was to hard i'm saying it was out of line to have PVP objectives placed on PVE players.
Kia May 2nd 2009 5:06PM
"--carebears"
Stopped reading. Are you people ever going to stop acting like such huge twats to people that don't make PvP the be all end all of the entire goddamn game? -_-
Stephen May 2nd 2009 6:30PM
Umm, can't you read? He was commenting on how PvPer's treat PvEer's in the game.