Ulduar nerfs and Blizzard's new raid philosophy
by Eliah Hecht 
May 2nd 2009 at 2:00PM
Ulduar has been nerfed almost every day since it came out on the live realms, and Blizzard shows no sign of slowing down. There have been mixed reactions to this, but one thing has become clear: Blizzard's approach to raiding has changed.
Zarhym made a very interesting post in a thread complaining about the latest round of Ulduar nerfs, and made the following points:
- The Blizzard raid philosophy is different in Wrath than it was in BC and classic. He said "The primary goal in this expansion - and the reason we've implemented 10/25-player, and hard modes - is to give as many people access to the raid content as possible." A lot of work goes into making raids, and they want more people to be able to see them than has been the case in the past.
- Therefore, PUGs should continue to "have some level of success" in Wrath raids.
- The difference in difficult between 10s and 25s is meant to be "fairly minimal."
- They intentionally slightly over-tune raids when they're released, watch who's downing what bosses, and "adjust the encounters according to the percentage of raids we expect to be killing specific bosses." This is very interesting to me - bosses are nerfed as a direct response to how many raids manage to down them.
- The real challenges are in the hard modes.
In closing, he says that "the days of a marginal amount of players having a go at our raid dungeons are mostly over."
In my opinion, this is an excellent change of tack. It really doesn't make a lot of sense for Blizzard to pour so much time and resources into a raid for just 5% of the player base to see it. I understand hardcore players missing the challenge of raids past, but hey, that's what hard modes are for.
Filed under: Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 8)
issachan May 2nd 2009 2:14PM
*shoots you down for doing firsts on the site you collaborately massively to*
... on the other hand. I must say that this is lame. Crap.
Why? Part of the motivation for raiders to be "leet" and "hardcore" is the fact that they can see high end places like ye old Hyjal, Naxxramas(original), BT, SWP.
To suggest that this is NEW in Wrath is wrong, personally I felt something of the sort edging its way towards us with the removal of attunements (even including Karazhan).
As the focus on raiding goes from high-end places and unique specialties such as the amazing vistas and "OHHH SHIIIIIT ABOM!!!!" of Mt Hyjal and (for lack of a better word, epicness) of Black Temple, inclusive of the Illidari, the whole Highborne brethren concept (Giant sewer snake commander guy is friends with some "culturally advanced" elves who are ten foot tall, and yet all led by a severely oxymoronic Demon Hunter that was in a prison for 10k years).... into "hard modes" that remind me of arcade video games in a way, aka "How Many Drakes Can YOU Leave Up???" we're bound to see a loss of those dedicated, vision-focused raiders who wanted to experience it all. Likely to see breakup of raiding guilds as an institution based on this, I know I've seen two major raiding guilds annihilate themselves in a giant explosion of drama, in the past months.
/rant
/salute
Sedrin May 2nd 2009 2:06PM
.... why is this news? This philosophy was pretty clearly presented at the last BlizzCon.
Reuben May 2nd 2009 2:08PM
I don't keep up with Blizzcon, so it was news to me. I'm sure it's an interesting read for a lot of people.
offday May 2nd 2009 2:10PM
Hey look, you're the new first. :D
Anyway, yeah, this is news. Not everyone follows Blizzcon, buddy.
Sedrin May 2nd 2009 2:31PM
Well you guys SHOULD. D:
::snarksnarksnark::
sgtteamkill May 2nd 2009 2:39PM
No need to be a smart a@@
JTD May 2nd 2009 2:39PM
Believe it or not I love the new changes.
My main is in a guild that cleared BT before the nerfs to raid encounters, and we are the number 1 horde guild on our server. We rolled through naxx 25 fairly easily. Had some problems with Sarth 3d, and found it a great challenge. We are now making great progression through Ulduar. Some of the encounters are challanging, but not raid breaking. All in all we are enjoying running raids that we dont have to bash our heads against a boss for weeks and weeks. Then move to the next boss rinse repeat.
Now my alt is in a guild that did not have the BC content downed, and have yet to clear naxx 10 or 25. We are not a leet group of raiders. We raid 1-2 nights a week and have some problems on a few bosses in naxx. We do not have enough raiders to do regular 25's and I live the fact that even without clearing naxx we can get into Ulduar and see the first couple of bosses.
Now one day we will clear naxx, gear up all our friends, and maybe one day see ulduar cleared (easy modes, we probably will never see hard modes).
I like the way raids are working out in wrath. Both my hard core side and my casual side.
Sedrin May 2nd 2009 2:57PM
@sgtteamkill: I was mocking myself facetiously. Sorry that didn't come across. I realize my initial comment was a bit pretentious.
I think it's hard for many of us to really grasp just how GINORMOUSLY HUGE the WoW player base is. There are millions of people playing this game. That means there are probably millions of people who don't visit this site, or any WoW site, so we don't hear from them. The feedback you hear here is skewed towards the " whining elites."
And I totally know where they're coming from: my guild is pretty casual, running 10-man with no hard modes, and we were able to just barely down XT when Ulduar was first released. After that, now that nerfs are coming through, it does feel as though our victory is cheapened. It feels like our hard work is being devalued by Blizz.
What's really happening--even beyond a business standpoint--is that Blizz is ADDING value (of game experience, of the chance for raid advancement) to those millions of players we don't hear from. That far outweighs any slight we "elite" raiders might feel, imo, from nerfing the baseline.
Kakistocracy May 2nd 2009 3:00PM
So anything can be news provided people avoid hearing about it?
On another note, It says "New", which is not dependent on whether you have heard about it before. Is something like this still new after a few month?
Why is there better gear rather than just more gear in the 25 person runs than the 10? Given Blizzard's goal of making the two different only in the sense that they will balance mechanics for different numbers of people?
vinniedcleaner May 2nd 2009 3:43PM
Maybe this will eliminate the elitism that went hand in hand with these "hardcore" players. I quit playing my rogue because of being excluded from Kara way back when, by a bunch of so called leet players, because I wasn't as leet as they were... (the guild BTW was Chicken on Rice on Dark Iron)
Tempes Magus May 2nd 2009 3:51PM
Just wanted this near the top:
I find it really funny that people claim "the epicness is diminished" and "this cheapens my accomplishment". It only cheapens it when you're competing against other people. They just don't get the meaning of PVE. If they really want to compete with other players to find out who is better at WoW then they can PVP.
The pvp content isn't even gated like raids used to be. Everyone can get in, but the same difference between modes in pve and pvp skill levels is there. You get better loot which the others don't get.
They can't claim that they are the only ones that "get to see the awesome lore" when it has always ended up on websites after the first people see it anyway. Algalon is already on YouTube. Those top 5% are the only ones that will be able to see him in game by the way. That means they do have something that is exclusive to them.
I still see the word "challenge" being associated with the normal mode as well. Those people want it to remain that way so others don't get in even though they probably won't be able to do the hard modes when they are even tougher.
These people will get their asshat handed to them in hard modes and I have to say they deserve it. They'll whine like everyone else or they won't feel as 1337 as they once did at which point they still won't see how it's the same as the situation is now.
You want a challenge? Go do hard modes.
You want to feel exclusive? Go get Algalon.
You want a big chunk of content all to yourself and your 1337 friends? Go make your own game where you can decide that or buy Blizzard(good luck :P).
They spelled out the design goals specifically pertaining to Ulduar very clearly now. Accept it and find a way to have fun or quit. If you quit then Blizzard still has the majority of the population they are making it more accessible to. They will have fun.
Bombrik May 2nd 2009 8:24PM
This is more directed towards issachan comment.
The days of "Uber Guilds", raiding exclusive content are over. Such thinking as you demonstrated best belongs on Vanguard, old Everquest 1, and the diehards who yearn for the days of 100 people in a 12 hour fight on a dragon that gives only *1* item of loot all while enduring de-leveling deaths and a 24 hour corpse vanish threat.
WoW is clearly evolving, and you need to stop being a relic of a past, of a "glory day" that was glorious only to a select few..and embrace what WoW is becoming. Blizzard sure is not going to change the game to bring that back.
40 mans are now the Dodo.
Para May 3rd 2009 6:16AM
I have always been a person that just cant stand being in guilds that struggle with easy content such as boss encounters that require you not to stand in the big pool of aoe damage, that wipe half of the raid. I prefer to spend my time with people who actualy know their class, they keybind/know how to use their skills and when.
Im not elitist and my guild (one of the best hordeside on our server) is not elitist either, just because a guild can get through content does not mean that they are all @ssholes complaining about how easy the content is. Its just that this whole "completing the game on normal" then going back to do it on "hard mode" just takes away the fun, i compete for boss kills achievements and the like dont really appeal to me. All i want is for the last few bosses in each dungeon to be REALLY REALLY hard, (even on normal) because fights just dont feel epic anymore.
I had time restraints that stopped me from raiding from late december untill friday night this week, and i went straight into ulduar on 25man and helped the guild get progression on 3-4 bosses. I mean seriously im NOT IN ANY TIER GEAR and i wasnt far behind (in most fights 2-3rd) the other players in terms of healing output so it wasnt a case of me being carried. Now having to go back and kill those bosses on "hard mode" doesnt feel as fun because i know "i have already killed this guy" (yes i know that these are after nerfs but still its too easy now)
Sure social players shouldnt be excluded (to an extent) but atleast see it from the side of "is this content fun and challenging" point of view, where all you need is players that know the tactics and can steamroll the content which is dissapointing because i never got to see ssc/tk back in tbc when i was in a casual guild.
A.T. May 2nd 2009 2:07PM
I actually agree with the nerfs 100%. The problem with past raids is that most people never got to see them. As a somewhat casual player, I never got to see anything harder than Kara with BC. I really wanted to do Hyjal and Black Temple, but I never got to enjoy that content simply because I didn't play the game as much. I just don't think it's really fair to restrict so much cool game content just because some people don't have the endless hours to sink in the game that others do.
Krianna May 2nd 2009 2:56PM
Making it so their hard work is at least *partly* enjoyable by a wider range is just good sense.
It's as if the only cars on the road had been BMW SUVs, and now there's economy cars, pickups and other types allowed as well-- sure, the traffic will be thicker, and there won't be as much epeen available just for having a car, but the type of car will still matter to the few who care, and there's better use of investment.
negativegirl May 2nd 2009 5:53PM
My sentiments exactly.
I don't want to be carried. I don't want others to do the work for me (i.e, loot whore). I just want to be able to experience the end game stuff without having to devote every night of my existence to this game. (I do like going outside from time to time :P).
Tim B May 3rd 2009 7:50AM
'I just want to be able to experience the end game stuff without having to devote every night of my existence to this game.'
Ok, so do Ulduar 10. Problem solved.
offday May 2nd 2009 2:07PM
Q the QQ.
I agree with this. They work hard making this content, why would they want to make it next to impossible to see it all? Of course, I'm sure the hardcore "we have 10 hours a day to dedicate to raiding, and screw everyone else who doesn't" group will have something say about this.
Craig R May 2nd 2009 2:10PM
inb4 'TO THE GROUND, BABY!'
breaklance May 2nd 2009 2:12PM
I think this tact maybe a lot more successful this go around because of the amount of hard modes. A lot of hardcore raiders were not happy with just sarth3d which was very poorly put together. There were a lot of exploits with it, and it was the only one. Players didn't like seeing weaker guilds complete it. I didn't.
Personnally I still don't like the "weak" raids because of how much I struggled to get raids together and get people to learn raids in BC. It took me months in kara, months in ssc/tk only to go 2/5 in hyjal before the wotlk launch was annoucned and all fell to shit.