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5-04-2009 @ 9:26PM
In before the "no more nerfs please I'm begging".Honestly the developers have made it clear what the design goal is. This isn't a new design goal either. They have implied, if not admitted, that the old raids were poorly designed if not mistakes. The first major change they made to rectify this was no longer having 40 man raids and instead having 25 man be the biggest.A mmorpg is about having fun and experiencing the story, not having something somebody else doesn't have. People may envy items or something somebody else has, but they couldn't care less who has it; they just know thye don't have it yet and they will get it someday.On a funny note, they shouldn't be called nerfs really if they make it easier for players. Why do I say that? Nerfs are usually negative for the majority of players when this is a buff in that the majority of players will find it more fun and actually accessible now. The people whining about them have the hard modes still anyway even with that getting changed some; it has to be possible to win even if it's hard after all.
5-04-2009 @ 10:51PM
"A mmorpg is about having fun and experiencing the story, not having something somebody else doesn't have. People may envy items or something somebody else has, but they couldn't care less who has it; they just know thye don't have it yet and they will get it someday." Man, with all due respect, you are completely off base here. The entire MMORPG genre (read: EQ, EVE, DAoC, etc) is built around putting as much time as possible into the game, and obtaining rewards to compensate. Most people like to play all different kinds of games; that's fine. However, a certain group of people, such as myself, enjoy focusing on one or two particular games, and those games alone. And, for 2 decades, the MMORPG genre has provided a niche for just those people. World of Warcraft, and most MMOs in general, are not hard in the sense that you need to be keeping track of the cool-downs and priorities of 20-30 different spells or abilities, or you need pinpoint accuracy with a curser. No, the main difficulty comes from time required, the massive time sink itself being a pillar of the industry. So, with time required as the main difficulty, be it wiping on a boss or grinding rep, players who put more time in naturally expect more rewards. However, rewards don't have to be loot; a reward could be a server-wide message letting everyone know that they were the first warrior to 80, or the satisfaction of knowing that they have downed a boss no one else has even seen. Now, you may see this as 'e-peen rubbing', or something that hardcore players shouldn't see as a reward. However, these are things that are pursued by the elite, and I, for one, don't think it is something to be ashamed of. Again, in an industry that has previously been based on time put in to the game, it is only natural to want to be the best. And, like a world rank on Company of Heroes, or a % completed on Guitar Hero, the average iLvl of your gear, or how far you have progressed are factors hard-core players can use to compare themselves to, and show themselves they are better than, the other players who play the game. Naturally now, you can see how the Hardcore players get upset when 'casuals' demand content be nerfed so they can complete it. Up until wow, and some may argue even BC, MMORPG's have NOT been for casual, part-time players. People played them seriously and heavily. More than that; they considered them a hobby. Now, consider that arguably the best MMORPG of all time has come out and captivated millions. Suddenly, casual players, the complete opposite crowd for who MMORPG's are for, start crowding the market, and demand the whole nature of the genre be changed just for them. The Hardcore, the old players, the ones who discovered WoW in the first place and made it what it is today, feel rejected and unwanted, simply because the casual masses pay more. And please, please don't say "Hard modes are still there for the hardcores!" Hard modes are a pitiful excuse for content, especially when players care more for rewards, and not the progression itself (NOT that there is anything wrong with that).
5-04-2009 @ 11:23PM
@Mavfreak - Yes I know people play the game they want, but it is a game which is supposed to be fun. If it isn't fun then why are you wasting money on it?You do make a good point that all they care about is loot and not content, but then they wouldn't be complaining about the content being too easy without even giving hard modes a chance. Hard modes are not a pitiful excuse unless all content is pointless. It's the same as normal mode except harder and with different loot, one exclusive boss and maybe a new mechanic or two.Anyway, my point was that the developers are looking to please everyone and have added hard mode for those who find normal(PUGable) too easy.You want to know what the developers are trying to do?Check here: http://www.wowinsider.com/2009/05/02/ulduar-nerfs-and-blizzards-new-raid-philosophy/and especially here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16888489439&pageNo=5&sid=1#99They spell it out plain and simple. The old content was not designed well or was a mistake entirely. They want Ulduar to be PUGable.
5-05-2009 @ 12:23AM
But my whole point is that the content SHOULDN'T be pugable, and that their new philosophy is wrong. When it is the loot rewards, and the bragging rights that go with it, that motivate people, why would they even think about doing it on a 'hard mode'? Imagine two guilds start out on equal footing, gear wise. One guild clears the normal modes every week, going through it in two nights, and, assuming 4 pieces of gear per boss, obtains 52 epics. The second guild works 3 nights a week, but only does hard-modes. They manage to drop an average of 6 bosses per weekly cycle (over a 3 month period). This is 5 epics per boss, or 30 per week. The guild trying for hard modes, thus, is severely handicapping themselves, when compared to the first, more casual guild. Why should this have to happen? MMO's are primarly based on character comparison and competition, so why should we be forced to handicap ourselves in that aspect if only to maintain the difficulty we have come to accept from both this game and the genre? Hard-modes are indeed an excuse for more difficult content. Imagine a world (of Warcraft) where every five man instance was Wailing Caverns, except with higher level mobs, and maybe a new boss technique every 10 levels. That is, essentially, what hard-modes are. Why should you have to progress through the 'easy modes', if only have to turn again and wipe on the hard modes? Its not new content, and it almost isn't fun. Speaking from experience, there just isn't the same exhilaration and joy from downing hard modes than whole new bosses from past expansions. MMO"s are all about fun, you say? Well, the hard-cores are losing theirs.Look, Hard Raid content isn't a mistake. 3 years of wow, and 2 years of an expansion, weren't a mistake. 2 decades of a genre weren't a mistake. The very constituents of the MMORPG genre NEED hard content for their fun, and have had it up until very recently. Look, I personally liked the philosophy that they had at Wrath's conception; have the 10 man raids be 'easy mode', so casual players can see the content, and have the 25 man HEROIC raids be difficult and drop better gear. This way, the hard-cores can still have their progression and their superiority. But no, I guess too many people didn't like getting less reward for less time.
5-05-2009 @ 8:05AM
@ MavfreakYou forget, thats YOUR opinion, that mmorpg are for YOU. That in itself says a lot about your ego.Anyhow for a more coherent analysis of your statement. 1) i do not, and never have, begrudge the top players their server 1sts or better loot (which is at best transitory imo), nor their accomplishments (such as glory of the raider, and i notice the REWARD and show off item of the drake has now been removed)2) a 'niche' is usually not main stream, but specialised. I do not know anybody that says WOW is not mainstream entertainment now. Theres simply too many players for it not to be considered that now.3) As a long time RPG'er i can safely say, i play this for fun, not bragging rights (but if you do play for bragging rights - fair play to you and best of luck)4) hard core players 'discovered' WOW. My god, that IS an ego isnt it, personally i found only RPG'ers started early on wow, as this was what they wanted since Gary Gygax first published D&D, and believe it or not, they played it for FUN. If ONLY hard core players played, you wouldnt have a game to play. Simple as that tbh. Money make the programmers work. Money comes from all sources. Without the funds from the casuals you seem to dislike, there would be no wrath, or probably not even a TBC.Lastly your second post makes large comparisons on why hard mode is bad, all based on loot, which you previously stated was not the object, please make up your mind. You cant be focused on content, then moan that loot wont drop fast if you go for hard modes. This, tbh, makes you sound like a loot wh**e. But surely hard modes and the BETTER rewards and achievements fill exactly what you say you do your 1st post. And just to alter your premise on the 2nd example, if an ELITE guild with HARDCORE players does uldar, they should pwn the hard mode at the SAME TIME as a casual guild, thereby gaining better loot and more achievements. You see what i did there - actually assuming HC players and casuals are NOT the same skill level, and that its NOT about having equivalent igear?Lastly if your not enjoying it, THEN QUIT FFS. Its a game, if you dont enjoy it find another one. Go 'discover' a game where you have to be on 24/7 to get anywhere if thats what makes you happy, just dont expect it to go global and have multiple expansions. Although there IS one that does require you to be on 16hours (approx) a day, has over 5 billion members, and no end in site. Its called Real Life. You may want to play it sometime, it takes a bit of getting used to, and you dont just 'pick up' your stuff off a boss you kill (well you can but i certainly wouldnt recommend it - the in game police take it off you and put you in jail for a long time), but has some great content.Oh and as ppl dont seem to respect any comments without links - Sinthar IS my main - Dragonblight, EU realm. Look me up. Im sort of half way between HC and casual id guess in your book. I have put a lot of time in, but due to RL commitments i havent been into uldar bar 2-3 runs so far, and tbh if chosing some RL over uldar makes me a casual in your eyes, then so be it. I care not for others labels, so you can call me what you want.
5-05-2009 @ 5:51AM
For the love of all things holy wowinsider give Mavfreak a spot on your blog, the ultra-casual nonsense has been going on for far to long and we need some veterans of mmorpgs at least telling the new captains where to sail.
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