The Queue: Tank talk
by Adam Holisky 
May 5th 2009 at 1:30PM
Welcome back to The Queue, WoW Insider's daily Q&A column where the WoW Insider team answers your questions about the World of Warcraft. Adam Holisky will be your host today.
There was a good, and amazingly civil, discussion yesterday in the comments to the Queue about which instance a tank should head to first. Most of the debate came about via my suggestion that Utgarde Pinnacle was a good candidate for a tank's first heroic. The nice thing about this game is that there is no right or wrong answer (most of the time).
However one of the only truths about the game is that you can get better at it by discussing it and debating the aspects of it with other people. So I do humbly recommend that no matter what question you ask, you always look for more than one answer and compile all the answers into one that fits you best. And with that said, ask your questions about the game in the comments and we'll see if we can't help you on this path of enlightenment. /zen
Otharello mentioned...There was a good, and amazingly civil, discussion yesterday in the comments to the Queue about which instance a tank should head to first. Most of the debate came about via my suggestion that Utgarde Pinnacle was a good candidate for a tank's first heroic. The nice thing about this game is that there is no right or wrong answer (most of the time).
However one of the only truths about the game is that you can get better at it by discussing it and debating the aspects of it with other people. So I do humbly recommend that no matter what question you ask, you always look for more than one answer and compile all the answers into one that fits you best. And with that said, ask your questions about the game in the comments and we'll see if we can't help you on this path of enlightenment. /zen
"I'm pretty sure that suggesting Utgarde Pinnacle for a new tank is the height of sadism."
In my opinion, not really. Utgarde Pinnacle has in it a few key aspects that all tanks should have quickly picked up. One is separating out mobs that need to die first and quickly. This is a skill that's learned early on: "kill the caster first!" is a common mantra. While there are some packs in Utgarde Pinnacle that might require someone with crowd control abilities, even those aren't too bad if the DPS focus fires down one caster after the other.
The only other thing about the trash is to pull the packs back to areas you've already cleared – which is a skill that should have been picked up in the regular 80 instances like Halls of Stone / Lightening.
The boss fights are all easy when the healer knows what he's doing. There are some positioning "gimmicks", like all grouping up for the final boss that are somewhat tank related, but it's nothing that is beyond any other heroic.
Finally, the only real challenge to the tank comes in the gauntlet. That's pretty easy compared to a speed run through CoT:Strat, which you'll notice I recommended a new tank start working on right away (albeit starting slowly). All a tank has to do is run down the gauntlet half way, stop, collect the mobs. After those are finished off, he runs down the rest of the way and does the same thing. The boss at the end of the gauntlet is tank and spank, sans moving away from him when he does his whirlwind of death.
And one last thing to note – I didn't say that a new tank should be brought to Heroic: UP. I said a tank that's followed the progression I outlined should be brought to Heroic: UP.
Michelle asked...
"Do companion pets significantly lag other players out while raiding?"
They can, depending on the person's computer. Additionally they can get in the way with click-targeting, which is something many successful DPSers do. And note that click-targeting means clicking the mob to target your DPS to instead of tab targeting to it. This allows the left hand to continue with DPS rotations via the keyboard and the right hand to control the target of the DPS via the mouse. It is quite a bit different from clicking DPS abilities.
Alanid asked...
"Also, is Patch 3.2 the definitive point for the next stage of the argent tournament? And if so could the new 5-man perhaps be inside the tournament?"
Patch 3.2 will definitely be progressing the argent tournament. We have no idea where the new 5-man instance will be.
Aldrir asked...
"Sure running non-heroic dungeons is a good tip but really, who runs the normal level 80 dungeons?"
People who don't want to look or act like fools in heroic dungeons.
Have questions about the World of Warcraft? The WoW Insider crew is here with The Queue, our daily Q&A column! Leave your questions in the comments and we'll do our best to answer 'em!Filed under: The Queue
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
CallMeIrd May 5th 2009 1:38PM
Are they going to change or remove the School of Hard Knocks achievements? It's pretty much impossible for a lot of players to achieve.
Jay in Oregon May 5th 2009 1:55PM
I don't think they will remove it. If anything, they may drop the requirements to "get 3 of the 4 goals with your orphan out" or something similar, like how they changed the candy heart achievement from requiring all 8 hearts to getting 6 of the 8.
Blizzard will know at the end of the holiday event exactly how many people have gotten the achievement, how fast they got it, how many came close, and how close they came.
Speaking anecdotally, I found it a lot less painful to do than I thought, and my wife -- who HATES to PvP -- got the achievement with some help from her guildmates in premade groups. (She's jazzed about the "Matron" title, but still grumbles about having to PvP to get it.)
Worst case scenario, every goal you get this year is one less you have to get next year.
Dhryke May 5th 2009 1:52PM
This achievement is not impossible by any means. I got the objective done in my first battleground on each one except AV, which I got on the second. Focus, but don't run blindly toward your goal. Believe it or not, all PVP requires some kind of strategy or you will die. Or FAIL in this case
Zawer May 5th 2009 2:04PM
It was not hard I got WSG and eye on my first try and AB and AV were both done by third try. Compared to all the other holiday achievements Children's week was a very easy.
Total children's week time spent less then 3 hours
Matt J May 5th 2009 2:15PM
I don't think that Hard Knocks will be removed. As someone who really hates PvP I managed to get it in about 3 hours of concerted solo effort.
Of course there were definitely some fail groups (the EotS where nobody bothered to cap towers), but for the most part it wasn't too bad. I even got lucky enough to find a sympathetic Alliance Weenie who let me get the AB one (he had a good 2 seconds where he could have broken my channel, but he let me finish before trying to kill me).
Blizzard has said that they don't want all of the achievements to be simple, and this one definitely takes effort, but you do have a week to complete it, which is definitely possible. (but don't put it off until the last possible day)
h8rain May 5th 2009 2:16PM
I play a priest and I got it in like 2 hours. It is a challenge, but by no means impossible (FYI, I don't pvp. At all, other than the world events that require it).
Well. I do WG every so often, but I don't have any PVP gear. I hope Blizzard sticks to their decision and keeps it there. Otherwise, it not much of "achieving" anything.
tatsumasa May 5th 2009 2:20PM
seriously?
1) get a group of friends to help you.
2) quit bitching.
3) profit.
Microtonal May 5th 2009 2:30PM
It won't be removed. I got the EotS and AB ones on the first go, and AV is just a matter of getting to the towers ahead of everyone else. You just have to do it until you get it.
WSG is a bitch in my battlegroup, though, because A) Alliance sucks at it (quick, everyone on offense! playing defense is for suckers! now run around like a bunch of morons in the middle of the field doing nothing at all!) and B) I keep drawing what are obviously organized Horde premade groups (pally/pally flag-capping team FTW).
Saint May 5th 2009 3:04PM
They should:
A) Remove it from the meta.
B) Make it "Do 1/2/3 of the following:"
C) Make it be a proximity thing. "Be standing near a flag capper."
I was very, very disgusted with the attitudes some people on my battlegroup were showing. Let me re-clarify that. DISGUSTED.
Those of you who sit there griping about "Noobs in my BG, choke and die" in your respective battlegroups are sub-human. If you don't want people going for achievements in your BG, form a premade. If you don't want people going for PVP in your BG achievement run, form a premade.
But DO NOT be a dick about this to anyone for any reason, whatever side your coming from.
And Tatsumasa, take that piss poor mentality back to the official forums.
Frank May 5th 2009 3:31PM
i think it's that hard by design: the violet proto-drake isn't supposed to be something everyone gets – it's *special*.
the battleground achievement is going to weed out a lot of people, and rightly so. it certainly put me out of the running. : (
Plaguen May 5th 2009 4:06PM
I don't think they should remove it, I am an extremely casual player and I was able to achieve it. It did take some learning on my part, being that it had been some time since I had done any BGs. AV was the only one I had any real trouble with, but after learning exactly where the towers were, I was able to assault it quite quickly.
ziggler May 5th 2009 4:19PM
one thing thats was actually quite helpfull for me in getting the last one (wg): during preparation, state, "need the achiev, anybody else wants to stay defending and we will take turns returning it?"
it was nice to see 7 people (2 had already the achiev) replying and getting it done.
ps: if ur thinking "well, then no one will atck if they see we're full defending"... dont underestimate the stupidity of a rogue or druid with their sprints available
Microtonal May 5th 2009 4:26PM
@Saint:
"If you don't want people going for PVP in your BG achievement run, form a premade."
That's the thing, at least about the WSG part. There is no PvP benefit or reward to returning a fallen flag yourself. You get absolutely nothing whatsoever for doing it. Letting someone with an orphan out return the flag does absolutely no harm to anyone, and the flag gets returned either way. So if I'm standing right f'ing there when the flag-carrier dies, and you immediately click on the flag even though you don't need to for the achievement and don't even have an orphan out, you're not just doing what you're supposed to. You're being an asshole.
I don't want to be in WSG any more than you want me there, so have the courtesy to let me get what I want so I can leave.
Dusseldorf May 5th 2009 4:46PM
Yeah, but I've seen several times in WSG a case where if you don't return it IMMEDIATELY, someone on the opposing team will pop out of stealth and sprint away. Not to mention it's just instinct from people who are used to trying to take out a flag carrier surrounded by healers/other people who will grab the flag if you don't return it instantly.
If it's of that much concern, tell the person that you're going for the achievement beforehand, and make DAMN sure you don't let more than half a second pass before you return that flag.
Personally, I had all of the achievements done in less than 45 minutes, not counting the deserter I had to wait out after WSG became a turtle match. I do have a pvp set, but that benefitted me little to none anyway.
Morithra May 5th 2009 8:27PM
I found the PvP achievement to be fairly painless, but a guildmate had to run AV seven times before he capped a tower. Even then, he didn't get it until I went in to help him with it (I aggro'd all the NPCs so he could cap, unmolested). It's something that some people will find harder than others.
I could understand if Blizz knocked it down to "complete 3 of these 4," but they'll probably only consider that after the holiday is over and they can see the statistics of how many people completed what percentage of the achievement.
Morcego May 6th 2009 2:22PM
I don't see why they would remove it.
I've got WSG, AB and AV on first try, and EoE on the second.
The only place that seems to require most tries was AV, for a few of my friends. And they all got all 4. Worst case was 3 hours.
Why do people keep insisting on getting a 310% speed flying mount without having to put some effort on it ?
Mastique May 5th 2009 1:39PM
Amen, and Amen...
Macruss May 5th 2009 1:42PM
Well said, on all points.
muffin_of_chaos May 5th 2009 1:43PM
It's true that these days almost no one runs the level 80 non-heroic dungeons. Need a guild for that.
And no, sorry, UP is not a good place for a tank to start out, half because if their gear isn't up to par (which is likely won't be) they'll take quite a bit of damage from both trash and bosses 2-4, moreso than most other heroics, and half because the Gauntlet has a lot of margin for error.
Macruss May 5th 2009 1:45PM
Which is why he wrote this:
"And one last thing to note – I didn't say that a new tank should be brought to Heroic: UP. I said a tank that's followed the progression I outlined should be brought to Heroic: UP."