Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsThe Queue: Tank talk
by Adam Holisky 
May 5th 2009 at 1:30PM
Welcome back to The Queue, WoW Insider's daily Q&A column where the WoW Insider team answers your questions about the World of Warcraft. Adam Holisky will be your host today.
There was a good, and amazingly civil, discussion yesterday in the comments to the Queue about which instance a tank should head to first. Most of the debate came about via my suggestion that Utgarde Pinnacle was a good candidate for a tank's first heroic. The nice thing about this game is that there is no right or wrong answer (most of the time).
However one of the only truths about the game is that you can get better at it by discussing it and debating the aspects of it with other people. So I do humbly recommend that no matter what question you ask, you always look for more than one answer and compile all the answers into one that fits you best. And with that said, ask your questions about the game in the comments and we'll see if we can't help you on this path of enlightenment. /zen
Otharello mentioned...There was a good, and amazingly civil, discussion yesterday in the comments to the Queue about which instance a tank should head to first. Most of the debate came about via my suggestion that Utgarde Pinnacle was a good candidate for a tank's first heroic. The nice thing about this game is that there is no right or wrong answer (most of the time).
However one of the only truths about the game is that you can get better at it by discussing it and debating the aspects of it with other people. So I do humbly recommend that no matter what question you ask, you always look for more than one answer and compile all the answers into one that fits you best. And with that said, ask your questions about the game in the comments and we'll see if we can't help you on this path of enlightenment. /zen
"I'm pretty sure that suggesting Utgarde Pinnacle for a new tank is the height of sadism."
In my opinion, not really. Utgarde Pinnacle has in it a few key aspects that all tanks should have quickly picked up. One is separating out mobs that need to die first and quickly. This is a skill that's learned early on: "kill the caster first!" is a common mantra. While there are some packs in Utgarde Pinnacle that might require someone with crowd control abilities, even those aren't too bad if the DPS focus fires down one caster after the other.
The only other thing about the trash is to pull the packs back to areas you've already cleared – which is a skill that should have been picked up in the regular 80 instances like Halls of Stone / Lightening.
The boss fights are all easy when the healer knows what he's doing. There are some positioning "gimmicks", like all grouping up for the final boss that are somewhat tank related, but it's nothing that is beyond any other heroic.
Finally, the only real challenge to the tank comes in the gauntlet. That's pretty easy compared to a speed run through CoT:Strat, which you'll notice I recommended a new tank start working on right away (albeit starting slowly). All a tank has to do is run down the gauntlet half way, stop, collect the mobs. After those are finished off, he runs down the rest of the way and does the same thing. The boss at the end of the gauntlet is tank and spank, sans moving away from him when he does his whirlwind of death.
And one last thing to note – I didn't say that a new tank should be brought to Heroic: UP. I said a tank that's followed the progression I outlined should be brought to Heroic: UP.
Michelle asked...
"Do companion pets significantly lag other players out while raiding?"
They can, depending on the person's computer. Additionally they can get in the way with click-targeting, which is something many successful DPSers do. And note that click-targeting means clicking the mob to target your DPS to instead of tab targeting to it. This allows the left hand to continue with DPS rotations via the keyboard and the right hand to control the target of the DPS via the mouse. It is quite a bit different from clicking DPS abilities.
Alanid asked...
"Also, is Patch 3.2 the definitive point for the next stage of the argent tournament? And if so could the new 5-man perhaps be inside the tournament?"
Patch 3.2 will definitely be progressing the argent tournament. We have no idea where the new 5-man instance will be.
Aldrir asked...
"Sure running non-heroic dungeons is a good tip but really, who runs the normal level 80 dungeons?"
People who don't want to look or act like fools in heroic dungeons.
Have questions about the World of Warcraft? The WoW Insider crew is here with The Queue, our daily Q&A column! Leave your questions in the comments and we'll do our best to answer 'em!Filed under: The Queue
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 6)
Balius May 5th 2009 5:48PM
They both use the same thing. Rogue leather.
jtrain May 5th 2009 4:02PM
"Sure running non-heroic dungeons is a good tip but really, who runs the normal level 80 dungeons?"
People who don't want to look or act like fools in heroic dungeons.
I agree with you, but in reality this doesn't happen. If the removal of attunements has taught us anything, it's that players will go where they are allowed to go regardless if they're prepared or not. As it is, no one cares about looking like a jackass; they will ding 80 and immediately start to look for Heroic/Naxx/Ulduar invites, hoping to ride other people's coat tails and win the loot rolls.
el ranchero May 5th 2009 4:31PM
I went back and read the previous post, and I still think people were right to question your choice of heroic UP for new tanks, even ones with decent gear that have followed your progression to that point. UK is a good starting heroic, as is Violet Hold and Gundrak, but UP is pretty tough, and entirely dependent on the quality of your dps. Frankly, the Skadi gauntlet is among the one or two toughest fights in any heroic for many people (along with the first boss event in heroic Azjol-Nerub, similarly a dps check).
On the other hand, I can't thank you enough for suggesting that they actually run some of the regular 80 instances. I can say from experience that it's pretty frustrating to faceplant over and over again on the same boss because the freshly minted 80 healer or dps didn't take the time to develop their skills.
Musashi Blaker May 5th 2009 4:56PM
Dear WoW Insider Staff,
3.1 Broke Craftlist 2 and I need a replacement addon that can do the same,
Being a Jewelcrafter with almost every pattern, and having a scribe alt with almost every pattern, AND a budding enchanter i need a addon that lets me link my book from any character please help!
RJagoda May 5th 2009 6:28PM
Why didn't they change the class composition for T8 tokens? I recall T4/5/6 being different from one another. I ask this as a warlock who hates rolling against 60% of the raid, including both tanks (paladins) and healers (priests). Before anyone says something smart like "Join a different guild," my problem is not the roll itself.... it's the fact that if I win, I take an upgrade from a tank or healer, both of which generally get priority in loot distribution for progressing guilds.
Has Blizz said anything about their reasoning for this? I suppose easier raids is a fair compromise for the dilemma, but I get tired sometimes of seeing a druid or shaman in full tier gear accepting yet another off-spec tier piece while I wonder if my keyboard will break in 2 over my knee.
Blake May 5th 2009 6:47PM
Your comment make sense, but think of the other combo: Warrior / Hunter / Shaman. Warrior tank, Shaman healer, Hunter DPS. The hunter gets the short end of the stick there.
I just don't see how your raid has 60% pally/priest/warlock. I guess each raid is different, but in ours, we have 40% pally/priest/warlock, 25% warrior/hunter/shaman, and 35% rogue/death knight/mage/druid.
Still though, at 40%, perhaps the numbers do need to be retuned a bit.
RJagoda May 5th 2009 7:14PM
60% may have been overstating it. Let me clarify:
First of all, it's a 10-man. Both our tanks are paladins. Both our healers are priests. We do have a few other tanks, but at least one and possibly 2 of them are pallies. Our healers are by and large priests. I think we have 1 shammy who raids regularly, and 1 (wait for it) pally healer.
I'm the only lock that raids, but I go regularly. So by those numbers, on any given night, 5/10 of the raid is rolling on one token. Throw in a random retadin and the odds get worse.
Again, please don't take this as me whining. I think things could be a lot worse. If you want to hear me complain loudly and firmly, ask me about healing plate, and the abundance thereof in WotLK raids.
Sinthar May 6th 2009 10:21AM
Tell me about it mate - one 10 man i was in, DK and Druid tank, druid healer, druid dps, dk dps, and 2 mages. Guess what - i didnt get anything with 7/10 of us rolling on one token.
Unfortunately this is all down to raid composition, something few of us have any control over. And how can you 'adjust the numbers' when the numbers change from group to group. I suppose a statistical analysis is possible, but over all the groups, im guessing the numbers will even out.
KtKat May 5th 2009 6:33PM
I was just doing a quest in Northrend on an alt of mine where I brought a letter of introduction to the dragon-in-elf-form Tariolstrasz, the Steward of Wyrmrest Temple. On closing my business with him his departing speech to me struck me as somewhat odd. He said, "Remember the Sunwell," which I've heard often from blood elf NPCs, but Tariolstrasz is supposed to be a dragon. Is this just a silly little oversight on Blizz's part, or is there a good reason for Tariolstrasz, or any dragon for that matter, to reminisce about the Sunwell?
Stop May 5th 2009 6:38PM
All blood elf NPCs have a chance to say "Remember the Sunwell," just like all human male NPCs have a chance to say "For the Alliance" (which is kind of funny when it's that guy who hangs out in Burning Steppes to hand out the Dreadsteed of Xoroth quests).
Stop May 5th 2009 6:37PM
You know, given what Algalon the Raid Destroyer is actually DOING, and given the conditions that players are told (after turning in the Disks of Norgannon) will trigger the opening of Uldum, does anyone else think it's likely that Uldum in Tanaris could be the next 5-man?
Zeplar May 5th 2009 6:38PM
I went straight to heroics. Yeah, make sure you're not in greens (although many heroics I do, at least one person is... hate them), but dungeons in wrath are really pretty easy. Just look up the bosses on wowwiki, the trash is all the same.
This may(read:will) sound elitist, but I wouldn't tell anyone who I considered a good player, to work up from regular dungeons in Wrath. You're wasting your time there.
Blake May 5th 2009 6:40PM
Random question, but I'm coming up on completing the daily quests that require Valiant's Seals. Today I'll finish my 4th faction, and if lucky, I'll be done on Friday with the 5th and final faction. If I turn in the 25 Valiant's Seals though, will the dailies be gone forever?
It's quite convenient to get extra gold for killing 10 scourge when you already have to kill 15. And 3 extra jousts takes less than 3 minutes, so it'd be nice to still have the Valiant's Seals quests open after completing all 5 factions, but I think they'll probably go away when you earn the Exalted Argent Champion of the Alliance title - does anyone know, or do we just have to wait until we get to that point?
Arkensis May 5th 2009 7:02PM
So, is there any way to change the ugly password that WoWInsider sends you for leaving comments?
Alevan May 5th 2009 8:32PM
I thought in patch 3.1 Paladin Auras were supposed to last through death? Did that feature never make it through?
bszota May 6th 2009 6:01AM
As a healer (druid/shaman/priest) i find that mana regen is of vital importance (alot of it can be received from buffs).
Of course if its a long fight: having a healer whos mana comes back faster is going to be useful.
But if you're pugging, well, ANYTHING, groups are going to judge you immediately by mousing over your health and mana.
Same problem as a new-to-heroics-tank, you're def capped and you've got 21000 hp... "OMFG LEARN TO GEAR NUB, YOULL GET TWO SHOTTED!"
You're always expected to be epic for the most trivial of runs... before even having a chance to be epic.
maroltk May 6th 2009 6:54AM
Ok, so this might be a noob question, especially because I've been playing for a while, but I was wondering if there was any way to cancel an instant cast spell once you've pressed down the button. Obviously if I lose LOS or range then it gets cancelled, but is there any other way to cancel my dots of doom?
Dircey May 6th 2009 2:00PM
I have a question about the Argent Tournament:
Now that it's coming up to the time where the people that have been doing the dailies every day since release are on their last Valiant faction...what's going to happen when you become a Champion of every city? I know that there is an achievement, but what I really want to know is if you can still do the dailies for the factions once you're a champion of ALL of them?
Mark May 6th 2009 3:19PM
is there a quest chain to start dailies for the argent crusade i am trying to raise my rep with them but i can't seem to find any dailies
matthew May 6th 2009 4:45PM
im a new level 80 warrior and when i open my character sheet. and look at my damage it is shown as red where all my base stats etc are green. any idea what this means(i assume its not good) and how i can fix it?