Ready Check: Progression Recruitment and Roster Churn

Ready Check is a weekly column focusing on successful raiding for the serious raider. Hardcore or casual, Vault of Archavon or Ulduar, everyone can get in on the action and down some bosses. This week, we're LF24M Yogg-Saron hard mode PST.
It's interesting to watch the flow of players into and around hardcore guilds, and how it changes during farm, progress and the area in between. Why are so many of these guilds recruiting, and how does it change the meta-game?
There are two reasons for a hardcore guild to recruit: to expand the roster and gain flexibility, or to replace players who are leaving the raiding squad. But what effect does it have on the guild? Let's take a look.
More of everything
Expanding the roster used to be a very valid reason to permanently have "LF Resto Shaman" on your recruitment page, but the days of stacking as many Bloodlusts as possible are past. Indeed, with the advent of dual specs, flexibility is less of an issue than it ever has been; you no longer need to bench key players just to get a specific buff when they can respec at the drop of a hat.
Yet, there are still reasons to ensure you have at least one of everything, and several of most: first and foremost, gear and buff coverage. If your entire healing roster is Holy Priests, you can probably manage most fights, but losing the buffs and utility brought by the other classes will hurt, and all that spellpower plate will rot.
"Bring the player not the class" still works to some extent, but you never know when you're going to need to stack something, so most of the hardcore guilds I've seen still retain some degree of class balance. During Naxx, this was entirely unimportant beyond having at least one priest for Razuvious-25, but in Ulduar guilds are realising that perhaps they're running low on certain classes and roles, and recruiting to fill those gaps.
Goodbye and all that
Far more than this, though, guilds are recruiting because they're losing players. Churn is at an all-time high for some, with guilds that haven't seen a new trial in months suddenly get several at once.
Why are people leaving, though? At the very top-end, where there are few places to go, players are going casual -- unable to cope with the raiding hours required, a few weeks in, to defeat the harder hard modes, people are dropping by the wayside and relinquishing their raid spot to someone who can always be there. (The jokes about not having a life at the top are, unfortunately, grounded in some truth.)
Then, all the way from the most exalted guild to 'Dragon Warriors of Azeroth*', people are leaving because the grass is greener. Don't like hardcore guild #1's raid leader? Maybe identical hardcore guild #2's will be slightly nicer/nastier! Caused a bit of drama and want a fresh start? Eyeing up that guild a few rankings higher on WoWProgress? Or simply dropped out of raiding and frustrated at the guild you joined to get back into the swing of things? These moves of similarly skilled players from guild to guild keep things flowing.
Of course, the grass usually isn't greener, and yet the myth perpetuates. If you really aren't happy with your current guild, definitely do seek out a new home -- I've been in that situation, and ultimately it's your own happiness and subscription fees that suffer. However, I'm definitely seeing people with minor gripes pack everything up and seek a home slightly higher up the mythological ladder of e-peen, only to find nothing's really changed.
Watching for trouble
One problem is that despite the reputations of certain endgame guilds, not a great deal is known about specific players within the guild, nor its internal dynamics. An applicant to a similar guild gets an instant thumbs up because they're clearly good enough to be in a well-known guild in the first place, but their reasons for leaving could be complete fiction, or a misrepresentation of the situation. This means that as well as good, but unhappy, players, troublemakers also circulate among guilds.
How to spot and avoid them? Firstly, check out their story. This isn't the easiest trick in the world, but guilds are incestuous enough that you probably know someone who knows someone who will have a word or two to say. If not, try whispering an officer blind, but be really careful about this -- it'll clearly depend on the situation. If the player didn't give a reason for leaving their guild, or mysteriously went casual and is now in a 'lesser' guild rather than being re-accepted in their big-name guild, fly those warning flags and quiz the player in depth about it.
An easy way to spot a potential problem transfer is to look at their history of guild- and character- hopping. This isn't to say that every player who's been to multiple guilds and rerolled is a troublemaker, but sometimes you can unravel a complicated story into a pattern of loot-hogging, rerolling, loot-hogging, rerolling... Not that this pattern is entirely uncommon among guilds, but you ideally don't want to let someone in who you know is going to take as much loot as possible and then demand to reroll or else quit the game.
The most fundamental thing here is not to judge the book by its cover. Just because someone has been in a guild you've heard of, whether that's on a world or server level, doesn't mean they're going to be a good fit for yours.
A change in dynamics
Another problem that's causing churn is the fact that raiders haven't really been tested since Sunwell Plateau. A fair bit of your roster from Sunwell might be intact, but over the course of WotLK and Naxxramas real life, jobs, babies and boredom have all happened. You've probably got a good idea of your raiders' idiosyncrasies thanks to fights like Sarth-3D, but there are still unknowns, and Ulduar has shown some cracks in otherwise-perfect facades.
Whether it's a problem with your raider's attitude -- maybe they get frustrated after an evening of wiping, and take it out on everyone else -- or skill, there may well turn out to be players in your roster you could do without. This in turn leaves gaps for new players, equally untested.
It's a gamble, at best, whether a new player will turn out to be better or worse than the departing one. Testing them alongside the old player and gradually benching the old player in favour of the new, if they do turn out better, is a cruel but oft-used way to resolve the situation.
However, it can take weeks to really get an idea of what a raider's like. From a guild point of view, you want the best possible roster for difficult kills, so your newer and unknown players will be benched in favour of old ones with known skill. This in turn leaves the new players frustrated -- often one of the problems they wanted to get away from was being benched! It also means you can't really test them at the 'cutting edge', and simply perpetuates the problem of the unknown. On the flipside, you can't bench your oldest, trusted raiders for a newbie, especially if particularly shiny loot is going to drop.
Conclusion
Recruitment on progress causes all these headaches, and more. Higher profile due to kills and achievements leads to more applications, which require more time to deal with, research and interview, which you don't have because you're raiding. Desperation for specific classes leads you to grab the first one that comes along just so you can keep raiding at the same pace. The problems caused by churn in themselves put off new players, who hop guilds and leave you back at square one.
The only people who can stop churn are the guilds themselves. Find creative ways to raid without having a set roster of five shamans; allow those who can't keep up with the progression pace to raid at a more casual level; don't make ill-advised, hasty recruitment decisions that only worsen the situation. Sadly, most of these concepts are alien to endgame guilds, but we can still hope.
* I made this name up. I'm sorry if your guild really is called Dragon Warriors of Azeroth. No, really, I am.
Filed under: Guilds, Raiding, Ready Check (Raiding)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
desecratedhope May 9th 2009 4:16PM
This is compounded a bit when you're on a RP realm like I am. Sure, you have the options to go find a good raiding guild or instance group, but sometimes you need to balance that with finding a good RP guild as well. No guilds I've found have been wonderful in RP while still gearing for Naxx. So, in these realms, you need to sacrifice something to get the play that you seek.
Kanuris May 9th 2009 11:41PM
Similar to this, i had to abandon my social/casual guild and the many friends in it to do some raiding.
It's a darn shame that many raiding guilds will not take you to their raids if you don't have their guild tag over your head, even if you were a consistant player and overall great raider.
I miss my old gchat :(
Marilee May 10th 2009 1:13AM
Naw. We exist. ;) I happen to be in a great guild that has never once recruited a person for raiding specifically... and yet we are pretty darn successful somehow (if you count the 10 man scene... I know some hardcore types never will, but we like it and the achievements and instances in that progression line.)
We are plugging through the Keepers in Ulduar10 each week, near the top of progression for 10 mans on our server, managed Undying (our server, being an RP server, still only has a handful of guilds that have gotten that... pretty much all but ours are actual raiding guilds), are starting up our second 10 man Ulduar team........ but most importantly have kept our soul: we are an RP guild with frequent RP events and are constantly, outside our raids, in-character and within our guild theme. I'm proud and quite happy. Ph8t lewts, good people, and a great server. Maybe 25-man guilds on PvP servers would giggle at us, but in our niche we are getting it done.
So... don't give up. If you want to RP and raid, all within your guild, there certainly ARE options out there. I'm sure we are somewhat rare, but I'm also sure we aren't the only example that exists. Doing the balancing act certainly is hard work and takes a lot of loyal people, so don't chicken out either.
richard.ashton May 9th 2009 4:57PM
Shout out to Numen, Silvermoon and Kimbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Doubt many of them read this mind.
Jennie Lees May 10th 2009 1:17PM
Well, told 'em I was using the pic!
Nobody ever gives IS shoutouts :(
Pointman May 9th 2009 5:24PM
Interesting read, very thorough.
Wish i had something more insightful to say about it... but really it was just a good commentary on the state of progression guilds. gj jen
Hathorr May 9th 2009 5:42PM
Unfortunately, this is very true. On Malorne, we've seen the big name guilds merge, dissolve, or disperse...and it's been increasingly difficult to progress as a small, very close-knit progression guild who doesn't use dkp or crazy hardcore systems. Seems like the "good" players want those types of accoutrements in the guilds they apply for, and the more social-yet-dedicated people are too gun-shy to take a chance on a new guild. WTB nice, mature, butt-kicking raiders!!!
Agate May 9th 2009 6:29PM
Jennie's asking the wrong question. The question is not, "how do we prevent people from leaving", it's "how do we keep a strong guild despite people leaving".
I've played MMOs for years. Hardcore guilds, casual, you name it, there's one thing they have in common: people leave. They leave for real life reasons, they leave for personal reasons, they leave because they can't keep up, they leave because the guild lags behind. Trying to keep this from happening is pointless.
The solution is to structure your guild so that it can survive the loss of any person. Don't shower a single main tank with preferred gear: spread it out so when he leaves, you still have a viable tank squad. Don't abandon old levels of progression: make sure you've got a raid schedule which will gives new players and alts a path to upgrade their gear to progression content. Don't let your 10-mans have fixed rosters: keep people swapping in and out, or they'll form cliques, and become more loyal to their 10-man leader than they are to the guild. Spread the love, don't play favorites, or your favorites will get egos and leave.
A good guild is like a starfish. All the arms are equal, so if you cut one off, the others work fine, until a new one regrows.
Veliaf May 9th 2009 8:34PM
This.
BenMS May 10th 2009 6:09AM
I wanted to uprank that one some more, but it was already up as far as it would go.
Jennie Lees May 10th 2009 1:17PM
It's not just about surviving people leaving, though, it's partly about overcoming the attitudes of "oh god need shamans must recruit" and fixing those things that cause people to actively leave (rather than, say, get a RL). All your examples are things guilds can do to stop pushing people away, for example. Pile all the tank loot on one guy and the others get pissed off and seek new homes. Abandon old levels of progression and people with alts move elsewhere, or raid elsewhere with those alts and don't give their main guild their all. Cliquey 10-man groups, loyalty, superegos etc all drive people away. It's all a flipside of the same issue, really.
Galemelle May 9th 2009 8:13PM
"A good guild is like a starfish. All the arms are equal, so if you cut one off, the others work fine, until a new one regrows." So apt.
I run a guild focussed on 10 man progression. I feel a bit let down by ye olde 10 vs 25 elitism that rages on, but we're sticking with it. On our server it seems that the top guilds circulate players between themselves or hoover up the decent players that we gear in 10 man raids. It would be nice to think that there are some fresh players out there who, with a little support could flourish, and that with that support some guild loyalty would develop. As it is, we loose the occasional player who thinks that the grass is greener, but if you operate on the basis that nobody is indispensable then I guess you have a recipe for a solid guild.
The ebb and flow is natural, you need treat it as the path of least resistance and hope that you will emerge a stronger body of people.
FoxOfWar May 10th 2009 3:44AM
Our guild has been in a bit of a situation like this; we've noticed somewhat of a lack in decent dps with brains. Ulduar brought to light something that has been going on for a while in Naxxramas; 15 people carrying the rest through it, more or less. Can't do that in Ulduar anymore, so people were left with two options; improve your playing or be ready for the bench. It really brought out who were the better players of our guild, and as an officer and class lead, I am very thankful of that.
We still don't have a 25man team who doesn't have at least few people who have no idea whatsover(because we have to fill the spots with someone...). It's frustrating having those people in Ulduar, where there are fights where one person screwing up(time and again) can keep the raid wiping. I like how Kologarn's seemingly the first IQ check in Ulduar à la Thaddius and Heigan ;)
Ackis May 10th 2009 3:55AM
You know I'm in this position... I've tried getting back into raiding after getting US 8th KJ kill but I just can't really stomach the time requirements now. I don't really find it a challenge and as a result have switched to more important things in life.
My wow time now consists of doing dailies, and working on my mods.
The few times I've tried getting into raiding again I've seen my skills have rusted over and it's been very depressing to make bonehead mistakes, not do well with healing, etc.
And then with achievements it irks me even more that I have most of quest/rep/etc achievements but for raids I have very few... because I haven't raided. Heh