Officers' Quarters: Fragmentation
by Scott Andrews 
May 11th 2009 at 1:00PM
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.
Lately there's been a big discussion about the exact nature of the proc on Val'anyr and which class should get it. Bornakk finally stepped in and explained how the legendary mace works. What people don't know is that the actual fragments also have a mysterious proc: "Chance when picked up: Increases drama rating by 500." This proc is so powerful, in fact, that just one fragment can send a guild's entire healing team into an emotional tailspin. In this week's e-mail, the blessing of an unexpected fragment from a guild's first Ulduar kill quickly becomes a curse.
Hi Scott,
I've been raiding with the same guild now for close to a year. Started out as a PUG healer doing Zul'Aman. And have since worked myself up to an officer and a raid leader. Our guild has steadily progressed through all the Wrath 10-mans, eventually clearing Heroic Naxx. This week we decided we were ready, and go try Heroic Ulduar.
It was supposed to be just a fun exercise to test the waters, so to speak. We got through Flame Leviathan after a few attempts. (which we were quite happy about) And then something awesome and terrifying happened, a Fragment of Val'anyr dropped. This was completely unexpected. (we didn't even activate any towers) So we hadn't discussed what would happen with the fragments. Keeping in mind most of our raid hadn't seen Ulduar up to this point.
Well, being the raid leader and highest ranking member present, I decided to do what seemed most sensible. Which was to follow a policy akin to what we followed in Naxx. . . . Whenever a key dropped from Sapphiron, it always went to the officers. Everyone in the raid knew this because it's been happening for months, and no one has ever objected. So with the fragment being similar (quest item leading to potential gear), it seemed correct to follow the same policy. Another consideration was that of the healers who aren't officers, none of them have been in the guild more than a couple months. Whereas most the officers have been there for much longer. Anyway, I discussed it with the other officers, and decided the fragment should go to me.
Unfortunately, two of our other healers felt they should have gotten a roll for the fragment. They are so upset about it, they are even refusing to heal in our raids now. I've tried to resolve the situation, but to be honest it just seems to make it worse. Would really like your advice, regarding what I should have done, and what I can do now.
Thanks,
Will
Hi, Will. It's always a tough situation for a raid leader when they rightfully deserve something awesome but also have to be the person to point that out. I say "rightfully" because I think you and the other officers made the right decision here.
Deciding who gets your guild's first Val'anyr is not easy. I tend to agree with Derevka from the Tales of a Priest blog, who lists attendance, flight risk, and skill as the three main considerations. You seem to have the advantage over the other healers in at least two of those categories, if they are as new to the guild as you say. And since you are a raid leader, I'm going to assume you're no slouch at healing, either. So, in my opinion, you were an excellent choice to receive the fragment.
However, I don't like the way you justified it to your other healers. Val'anyr is not that similar to the focusing iris keys. The keys unlock a boss. Without a key, your guild can't summon Malygos, so it's content that the guild can't see or farm. Val'anyr fragments do start a quest, but the mace is not a key. Val'anyr does not open content or make other loot accessible. It was thoughtful of you to identify a precedent, but I don't think that this precedent is entirely applicable here.
In hindsight, as I'm sure you'll agree, it would have been much better to make this decision (and justify it) before setting foot in Heroic Ulduar. Without any prior discussion, your healers could have assumed that they'd be able to roll on the first fragment. They probably shouldn't have expected normal rolling rules, but it's difficult to blame them 100% when nothing was said upfront.
I also think that the way two of the healers responded to the situation is selfish and immature. Refusing to heal is the MMO equivalent of "I'm taking my ball and going home." That's a tough stance to feel sympathy for. If they've been in the guild longer than you, and they attend more raids than you, they might have a point in feeling overlooked. Even so, this is not the right way to handle it.
The officers of the guild made a decision. I would say, based on the limited information that I have, that the officers made a wise decision. These two healers don't have to like it. They're allowed to be upset about it. But to protest the decision in this way accomplishes nothing.
As the person who received the fragment, you're probably not the best candidate to smooth things over. They're angry at you, and probably a whole lot of jealous to boot, so it's probably not a good idea to approach them right now.
Here's what I suggest: Cut your healers a deal. Offer them the opportunity to state their case. If they manage to convince the officers that one of them is a better candidate for the mace, then they'll get the fragments from this point forward until they complete the mace. One fragment won't make or break the assembly. However, if they don't change the officers' minds, Will will continue to get the pieces and they will return to healing.
This way they can feel like they had input into the decision. You could also talk about who gets the next mace at this point, but it might be better to wait until the first one is closer to being complete. Then you'll know who has been more dedicated to healing Ulduar.
For guilds that haven't made the decision yet, waiting till that first fragment drops is not the time to talk about it. However you plan to handle these pieces, be sure to announce it in advance. That way, no one can say that they were blindsided by the loot assignment.
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters! For more WoW Insider gameplay columns, click here.Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Tecka May 11th 2009 1:09PM
I think Blizzard handled the loot for this staff all wrong. Making it so only one person could truly get the item (if all shards go to them first) in a long time while others wait because either they rolled lower then the first person, or they were just not liked as much as the other guy.
Why can't all raiding healers have a way to work on getting the mace? Like a HUGE questline?
Kathuzad May 11th 2009 1:14PM
Because then it's not Legendary. Everyone would be running around with a mace and it wouldn't be unique at all.
They handled this right - having fragments works way better than praying RNG works in your favor. Some guilds would end up with tons of glaives, while others might never complete a set. This system is way better, yet still keeps it rare.
CursedSeishi May 11th 2009 1:19PM
Because anything legendary to do with casters is broken before players can get their hand on it.
Atiesh? I bet Kel'thezud and gang were using it as a limbo pole, Patchwerk went to try while kel wasn't there, despite being told not to, and tripped and fell onto the staff. Everyone panicked, decided to hide the shards, and threw the base of the staff out of naxx and left the head at Kel's door with a ransom note.
As for this? Whack a mole incident involving kolgaran and a whack-a-mole machina Mimir devised...
Face it magic users... your legendaries are frail...
Mennoknight May 11th 2009 1:27PM
Which is why most guilds aren't letting it depend on a RNG /roll to see who gets the first one.
In our guild, we've known for months who will get the first legendary. Because of this, that person passes on other weapon upgrades (once we get them in ulduar) We're lucky though. A majority of our healing core has raided together since SSC, even if the rest of the guild came and went.
VSUReaper May 11th 2009 5:36PM
My guild also knew for months who was going to be getting the mace: our druid healer.
Unfortunatly, shes also getting the majority of the good druid drops while shes also getting all the fragments, so its a little depressing to anyone else in the guild. I like the idea of the person getting the mace being required to sit back and and pass on all the other loot unless someone else is feeling very generous and decides to pass to the person getting the frags. Getting good gear and a legendary doesnt = fair.
(but what can I say - the druid is the GM, and unfortunatly a lootwhore, but its a low pop server and not much else can be done unless you are in a decent guild already)
Nibbit May 12th 2009 6:05AM
V Magius said...
"An officer from outside the group or not one who would roll should have spoken in chat explaining everything or it just looks like the raid leader ninjaed the shiny."
That's because He DID ninja it!
He can try to justify it as much as you like, after the fact but his other healers have a valid right to be upset with Him. He did not discuss it with the raid or even with the other healers. He only decided "I win" and then effectively tried to shame his healers into accepting that he deserve it.
In this situation I would have /gquite on the spot & I strongly suggest his healers do this.
Snuffey May 19th 2009 8:47AM
I am sorry by putting in the weak justification its just like the key to eye it gives me the impression that it was handled differently than expressed. #1 as an officer you have to put the health of the guild over your own wants. I dont believe this is what happened it seems more likely that he made his case of why he should get it to the other offiicers and not discussed how it should be handled. #2 it was never opened up as a guild discussion which in the case of loot, which is what it is , is always a bad idea. To obliquely decide to pass it to an officer with no prior guild discussion just suggests that there is favoritism. Not that I am saying how the other healers maybe handling it is right. If they are refusing to heal that is completely immature and would just make me feel they don't deserve the fragment. But reading between the lines that may just not be true. It seems that this officer is looking to be told what he did was right. Should he have gotten it? I think an officer whos main is healing should be the 1 to get the fragments 1st. They are more invested in the guild and the guild should get the benefit of having that mace being used on behalf of the guild.
Arrowsmith May 11th 2009 1:13PM
I agree with this post. It's one thing to be upset. It's another thing to act like a child. And I'm sure Ate'ish brought on just as much Drama back in the day as Val'anyr is now, if not more because there were more healers per raid to worry about back then. So for those of us that didn;t get to experience that Drama, well now we do!
The Claw May 11th 2009 5:24PM
Ati'esh didn't cause nearly so much drama because the sort of guild which would erupt in drama over loot issues had already self-destructed long before they progressed far enough to have a shot at Ati'esh fragments.
Gryph667 May 11th 2009 1:15PM
While the obvious is obvious to outsiders, people's perceptions of the situation almost invariably cloud the facts. The other two healers, all else being equal, are operating under their own perception and belief structure...which of course means that since they didnt get the fragment, obviously the person who did is a selfish prick.
Will, on the other hand reached outside of his perception/belief bubble to the other officers to come to the correct conclusion. Good call on his part. Having another officer explain the salient points of the leadership's position would have been better, as anything coming out of Will's mouth at that moment, no matter how cogent, would have been seen as patronizing and self-serving to the other healers, no matter how correct the choice was.
V Magius May 11th 2009 6:36PM
I see your point in this. Hindsight and outside observer, it looks like the officer did the right thing.
I can also see the point from the other healers' view. Making some assumptions because these points aren't brought up; the officer is a selfish prick and the other officers are showing favoritism.
All we have is the officer's word, but let's assume he is completely honest here. What we don't see is him explaining this to the other healers in detail before taking the fragment. An officer from outside the group or not one who would roll should have spoken in chat explaining everything or it just looks like the raid leader ninjaed the shiny.
Which sounds better:
RL: Ok, we've determined this goes to me, no rolls. Yoink.
or
RL: Ok, the other officers and I have discussed it. We feel that it would be in the best interest of the guild if I receive the item. It is a similar drop as ItemX in RaidY, so those rules apply. And, as I have been in the guild the longest and make z% of raids, it is best. If you have an questions you can whisper the other officers. Everyone OK with that? You have one minute.
I'm leaning towards option 2. It explains the decision and gives me a chance to confer with the officers that the conversation did actually happen. It also keeps it from looking like the officers are just trying to get themselves the good stuff.
Kuldrad May 13th 2009 5:34PM
Tecka - Your suggestion is in essence to make the mace easier to get. That is not the intent for this item. It is Legendary. If all healers, huge questline or not, were all able to start working on this item, then it needs to just be any other epic. A nice epic, but not legendary.
I think Blizz made the difficulty in obtaining this item correct.
Brian May 11th 2009 1:20PM
I think my group is going to use DKP for the fragments. You CAN win every fragment if you want but you won't get jack else unless no one else wants it. I'll take full T8.5 over this hammer personally. We did need before greed before and certain people ended up getting like 12 pieces of offspec in 25 naxx then never raiding again. As much as it pains me to say it, DKP is the way to go for larger raid groups, it assures that people who didn't get loot today, will get loot eventually.
Mennoknight May 11th 2009 1:28PM
This just slows down the construction of the hammer for everyone. It's a lot better to focus on building one at a time instead of having the fragments spread across 10 healers.
Cyrus May 11th 2009 1:29PM
But the problem with assigning each shard by DKP is that it will take a LONG time for any one person to get 30 shards.
In my guild, one regular healer was picked and he's getting all the shards that drop until he collects 30, and then it will be somebody else's turn. I think he has five or six so far. I'm not sure how they're going to sort it out among healers further down the pecking order, but it was a no-brainer to make him the first, or one of the first few, based on attendance and stuff.
Brian May 11th 2009 1:34PM
Val'anyr is paladin loots
all shards should go to my main.
Brian May 11th 2009 1:34PM
Also I could see giving all the shards to one person with the caveat that they don't get any other loot unless no one else needs it for main spec. It's really unfair to give the shards away for free
obarthelemy May 11th 2009 1:35PM
DKP ing the fragments postpones by a lot the moment when someone, anyone, in your raid will complete the mace.
What good is having ten people with a tenth of the mace, when one could already have one personn have it fully ? Or taking 5 years to have 10 maces when you could have 1 mace in 6 months instead ?
My guild's loot council goes by "whatever helps the raid more", with a bit of fairness thrown in. ie, the one who got the first fragment will get all of them until he's completed his thingy. And it was an officer+ raid lead with very high attendance, who deserved it for effort, for high attendance... and we know he won't stop sowhing up once his mace is complete.
Brian May 11th 2009 1:40PM
obarthelemy said...
like several people have said, we'll likely have 2 or 3 full sets of shards before we down yogg on hard mode. We got to the General this last week and hope to down him next weekend. We're not terribly hardcore, only raiding 2 nights a week. I would like to raid more but most of the other members don't have the time or don't want to.
Deadly. Off. Topic. May 11th 2009 1:44PM
A good and trusty healer, I can see this working out for, but some people g -quit once they have everything they need OR even worse, some healers get "bored" and go do other runs or raids, or worse stop playing... or fill in the blank.