The Queue: Uber Epic DPS
by Adam Holisky 
May 11th 2009 at 8:00PM
Welcome back to The Queue, WoW Insider's daily Q&A column where the WoW Insider team answers your questions about the World of Warcraft. Adam Holisky will be your host today.
Let's jump right into The Queue today. Lots of questions answered after the break.Valdorin asked...
"What DPS is expected before you start heroics, 10-mans, 25-mans?"
Start heroics when you can do around 1400 dps. Start 10-mans when you can do around 1500 dps. Start 25-mans when you can do around 2000 DPS. Some folks probably will disagree with these numbers, but the thing to remember is that it's ultimately up to the raid leader. These figures are only for boss fights too. If you're being judged on trash DPS, then something is probably fundamentally wrong with the raid you're in.
Additionally, you do no DPS if you're dead. That means you need to know all the fights before you enter the instance / raid. If you die, you do zero DPS and are a prime candidate to be replaced.
Sorror asked...
"Whatever happened to epic gems?"
Grab a Stormjewel from the fishing daily, but other than that, you'll need to wait until at least the next major content patch.
Kubien asked...
"Does Blizzard have any plans to make spawned quest mobs auto-tagged?"
That'd be nice, wouldn't it? I recommend posting in the Blizzard Suggestion Forums and hope that it gets someone's attention.
Mused Moose asked...
"Did Blizzard remove the 'Bloodsail Admiral' title from the achievements?"
The achievement is a Feat of Strength, so you can't see it.
Mused Moose also asked...
"Has Blizzard said anything about adding Jewelcrafting trainers to the non-expansion cities?"
I don't really think there is a need. Everyone congregates in the major cities as is, and everyone has Dalaran either set as their hearth or can get there quickly. But no, they haven't said anything about adding Jewelcrafting trainers to other locations.
Tural asked...
"Didn't the interview a few days ago have a Blizzard staffer saying the Argent Tournament expanding was the biggest feature of 3.2? That leads me to believe that there won't be a raid if a world event is the largest piece of content in the patch."
I think you're reading too much into what Blizzard has said. While there Patch 3.2 will feature a bunch of Argent Tournament stuff, it'll also feature a lot of other things. Remember too that Blizzard has different teams working on things, so the argent tournament team is very likely separate from the instance / raid team.
Filed under: The Queue
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Obsidian May 11th 2009 8:08PM
While I could see Tural reading too much into it. From what I have been hearing/reading it sounded like there was only going to be a 5 man instance next content patch and that the focus was on the argent tournament and a new BG. Can anyone confirm/deny this?
Deathgodryuk May 11th 2009 10:59PM
That was my impression as well.
Thetealone May 12th 2009 7:06AM
Prehaps the 5 man will have something to do with the tournament itself.. that'd be a freaking blast!
Palm May 12th 2009 8:12AM
Nah, there will be trolls. And you know it.
Mindreaver May 12th 2009 8:35AM
If you look at the pacing between expansions, they need something between Ulduar and Icecrown, if they truly want the Arthas dungeon to be the SWP of this expansion.
So yes, most likely a raid. It could possibly be:
1) Troll City
2) Spider City
3) End to the Infinite Dragonflight/Nozdormu mystery.
4) Vrykul based raid
5) End to the Deathwing/Grim Batol mystery.
My money would be on the trolls or the spiders. But I wouldn't put it past blizzard to have a few small Onyxia-style raids... maybe a bronze dragonflight instance and a grim batol instance. One aspect is down, time to finish off the other ones.3
Clbull May 11th 2009 8:09PM
I think when I've started raiding, the numbers to do heroics were about 1500dps and to do 10 mans, 2000+ was recommended (Not sure if 25 mans are the same or more)
Gareth May 12th 2009 8:17AM
I believe I read somewhere that a blue poster (Ghost crawler?) mentioned that 1600 DPS was the designed amount of DPS for 10 man raids. To me that makes sense since I think with all dps averaging that you'd just get Patchwerk down on the enrage timer, but it would be real tight.
As for hitting the big numbers I read here, somehow I doubt it. While you may have been hitting 2.5k+ in the Sunwell you have to remember you had
A) A well balanced group, not 6 deathknights 3 druids and a warrior so you maxed out there on buffs.
B) Sunwell gear is really really good, check out shadow priest.com, a lot of it is still in the top 10 you can gear with (not including Uldar), so you'll do more then someone in blues.
C) If you were in Sunwell then you probably play your class very well, once upon a time you didn't, so even if you are a good player that is motivated and tries to improve it makes sense to make the first raid not expect you to be mr fantastic straight away.
Based on that I'm not seeing Uldar at 4k needed, seriously, what do you need to pull on hard mode? Based on what I've seen so far its looking like 2k bare minimum (10 man here) probably actually 2.5k really needed to cover deaths and other inefficiencies.
Saying that I've seen a fury warrior wearing early purples with the odd blue pulling 3k dps pre titan grip nerf in our casual guild 10 man, but his main is in a top end guild.
MeanGreen May 12th 2009 7:22AM
I personally hope it is a 'Ring of Blood' style instance where the 5 man group has to take on bosses (no trash) in the finished stadium. I really hope they take that approach because that would be very fun(for me at least) .
Kassu May 12th 2009 12:04PM
Start dungeons etc when you have brain and a rotation.
Dats it yo.
Erdinger May 12th 2009 1:44PM
1600 dps would be pathetic for a 10-man. I logged onto my friend's level 77 feral druid te other day to see what I could eke out in feral (my main is a raiding balance druid). With his combination of quest greens and level 70 epics (pvp and badge-purchased), I had no problem pulling 1900+. This is at level 77, so in the next 3 levels he will get upgraded spells and at level 78 he can start enjoying the crafted rares. If we're only expecting 1600 dps in 10-mans, we are setting the bar way way too low.
Also, I'm not sure what the guy above who replied was talking about when he said he saw a rare/epic warrior push 3000 dps. Have you ever grouped with a DK? My DK was breaking 2500 dps the day he dinged with a combination of quest green/blues and wintergrasp epics. Once you have a handful of ilvl 200 (or higher) epics, 3k can be considered the difference between knowing your class and having wasted your time for 80 levels without learning a thing.
FraggleRock May 11th 2009 8:12PM
call me crazy....but i expect 2.5-3k in ulduar25....assuming people have been in naxx getting gear for a while, its not too much to ask.
Obsidian May 11th 2009 8:15PM
Oh I have yet to pug ulduar so I wouldn't know for that. My references were for 3.0 content. 3.1 I've been doing exclusively with my guild as I much prefer to avoid the wipe fest (and the fact that pugs don't seem to get past the first couple bosses)
Dfunct May 11th 2009 8:30PM
2.5-3k DPS for Ulduar 25....are you insane? You *might* be able to kill trash with that. Maybe for the earlier boss fights after they've been nerfed to the ground, but come after XT, DPS would need to do a minimum of at least 4k DPS, some even more like Council/Thorim/Hodir where 5k DPS isn't uncommon, or 10k of you adjust the numbers accordingly for Hodir.
If you're Naxx25 geared and can't do more than 3.5-4k DPS, gtfo.
And agreed with Exodeus. My Warlock was doing 2.5k DPS at 70, so if you can't even do 2.5k DPS at 80 with Dungeon/Quest gear, you're either lacking skill or simply a downie.
FraggleRock May 11th 2009 8:35PM
yeah....most of the people i raid with do 3.5-4.5k...the numbers i threw out were a minimum.
Sless May 11th 2009 8:58PM
It does say "before starting 25-mans," so I think you can assume it means at the basic level of naxx-25. I would imagine you want to do it at least a little before you jump into ulduar-25.
profglitch May 12th 2009 6:12AM
"Start heroics when you can do around 1400 dps. Start 10-mans when you can do around 1500 dps. Start 25-mans when you can do around 2000 DPS."
Start heroics as soon as you ding 80. Start 10 and 25 mans when you are almost fully geared from the best things you could get in heroics for your spec. Simple. Don't enter raiding early unless you KNOW that you are pro enough to handle it (in which case, you can squeeze 2000 DPS out of questing greens anyway).
Do some research about your class, the theorycraft, your spec, and your rotation. There is no reason anybody should ever be playing correctly and doing less than 2000 at level 80 no matter what endgame-level gear they are wearing.
Obsidian May 11th 2009 8:12PM
From what I've seen on my server most of the pug raids (which is what my poor alt is forced to do) are requiring around 2k-2.5k dps for a 25 man and around 2k for a 10 man. I don't know if this is different on other servers
Lorsty May 11th 2009 8:13PM
About Mused Moose question, he may have asked that so the people without the Burning Crusade could have access to the profession.
I wish I could >.>
I bought a second account for the RAF thing but I don't want to upgrade it to TBC so I can't train JC before level 60 when I transfer my character to my other account. QQ
Obsidian May 11th 2009 8:18PM
I would recommend then that you still pick up mining and use an alt to hold all the mats that you acquire while leveling up. Pick up a guide from wow-professions.com (which are free) and just check off the mats as you acquire enough. That way once you transfer your toon you can mail him all of the mats you have been saving up and you'll be able to level up JC in a flash.
Thander May 11th 2009 8:34PM
Yeah, Adam completely missed that. I think Blizzard will probably add JC trainers to the main capitals for the next expansion. They don't have to do it but I think they will just to make things easier. They continually try to make Azeroth leveling/professions are easier.