Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsThe Queue: Uber Epic DPS
by Adam Holisky 
May 11th 2009 at 8:00PM
Welcome back to The Queue, WoW Insider's daily Q&A column where the WoW Insider team answers your questions about the World of Warcraft. Adam Holisky will be your host today.
Let's jump right into The Queue today. Lots of questions answered after the break.Valdorin asked...
"What DPS is expected before you start heroics, 10-mans, 25-mans?"
Start heroics when you can do around 1400 dps. Start 10-mans when you can do around 1500 dps. Start 25-mans when you can do around 2000 DPS. Some folks probably will disagree with these numbers, but the thing to remember is that it's ultimately up to the raid leader. These figures are only for boss fights too. If you're being judged on trash DPS, then something is probably fundamentally wrong with the raid you're in.
Additionally, you do no DPS if you're dead. That means you need to know all the fights before you enter the instance / raid. If you die, you do zero DPS and are a prime candidate to be replaced.
Sorror asked...
"Whatever happened to epic gems?"
Grab a Stormjewel from the fishing daily, but other than that, you'll need to wait until at least the next major content patch.
Kubien asked...
"Does Blizzard have any plans to make spawned quest mobs auto-tagged?"
That'd be nice, wouldn't it? I recommend posting in the Blizzard Suggestion Forums and hope that it gets someone's attention.
Mused Moose asked...
"Did Blizzard remove the 'Bloodsail Admiral' title from the achievements?"
The achievement is a Feat of Strength, so you can't see it.
Mused Moose also asked...
"Has Blizzard said anything about adding Jewelcrafting trainers to the non-expansion cities?"
I don't really think there is a need. Everyone congregates in the major cities as is, and everyone has Dalaran either set as their hearth or can get there quickly. But no, they haven't said anything about adding Jewelcrafting trainers to other locations.
Tural asked...
"Didn't the interview a few days ago have a Blizzard staffer saying the Argent Tournament expanding was the biggest feature of 3.2? That leads me to believe that there won't be a raid if a world event is the largest piece of content in the patch."
I think you're reading too much into what Blizzard has said. While there Patch 3.2 will feature a bunch of Argent Tournament stuff, it'll also feature a lot of other things. Remember too that Blizzard has different teams working on things, so the argent tournament team is very likely separate from the instance / raid team.
Filed under: The Queue
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 5)
SpaceGoatPriest May 12th 2009 9:15AM
I play either shadow or discipline. I am usually in top 5 for DPS when I raid 25 mans, but there are sooo many fights that skew numbers that people don't "get it".
Like:
"I did 5k DPS on that boss. Beat that!"
"Ummmm, it's Lothlaeb. You have like 90% crit basically the whole fight."
"And? I can do 5k DPS L2P noob."
(This can also apply to Thaddius, Maly, and others)
And there are other fights in Naxx where I do very little DPS, Faerlina is one (I MC the worshipers) and Ins. Raz is another (I MC "tank"). If I was only able to "pump" out the DPS, but I absolutely could not understand the concept of Mind Control, then I would probably not be asked to raid a much.
Playing your class well OVERALL is more important, in my opinion.
Richard May 12th 2009 3:39AM
Geez all these DPS numbers flying around are generalizations. If you know your toon, then you'll know if you can pull your weight in a heroic or raid.
Looking at Naxx, there are lots of fights where your DPS will be incomparable to what you can do on a cookie-cutter encounter like Patchwork. On my mage I decurse on fights like Noth and Sapph (and note that there are mages that never bother). I run to Frost Nova the dog food on Gluth. On these fights my dps is in the 2ks. On Thaddius and Loatheb, and Malygos phase one, and on the trash in between Noth and Heigan dps of 8-10k. The rogues do 14k.
Translation: Your DPS numbers, thrown out without qualification, are meaningless. If you want a true indication of raid contribution, link a full WWS of a Naxx run. I roll my eyes at the "I do 3k dps" people.
The Yeti May 12th 2009 6:30AM
Will the Azuremyst/Bloodmyst isles' flightpaths ever be connected to the mainland?
SpaceGoatPriest May 12th 2009 9:21AM
Probably not, because those two islands are on a different "server".
But at the same rate you can fly from QD island to Eastern Kingdom, so who knows.
automator May 12th 2009 7:44AM
The dps baselines you put in sure make me feel better about my dps offspec. An old guildmate buddy teases me about my dps when I get all excited about breaking 2k on boss fights -- says I'm "Halfway there".
But I really disagree with the "do heroics the moment you ding 80". Sure, maybe if you're running with friends who can compensate, or if you have a set of crafted epics and a guild nice enough to pass you the BoE epics from Naxx and the Emblem bracers. But if your gear is a mix of quest rewards and regular dungeon drops, you're going to be a liability for the group. Not because most of your stats will be low, but because your hit rating will have you missing swings left and right.
Yukeake May 12th 2009 8:58AM
My general rules of thumb: 1.5k for Heroics, 2k for 10s, 2.5k for 25s
Jumping straight into Heroics at 80 is generally a bad idea, unless you're either a) very skilled, b) very prepared, or c) have a static group that can compensate until your gear catches up. Of course, there are a couple (UK in particular) that are *much* easier than others, so even this isn't a hard and fast rule.
At 80, you should be scouring the AH for the ilvl 200 BoE/crafted pieces that are best-in-slot until you have access to epic-quality items. There should also be a few epic-quality crafted items to seek as well. Certain quests, which vary by class, will also provide some good gear that'll take you well into Heroics.
Rule of thumb here is that at least half your gear should be ilvl 187+, which isn't tough between AH-able BoEs, crafted gear, and regular instances. By the time you get to this point, you should be easily pulling 1.5k dps, and can pull your weight in most low-mid tier Heroics without a problem, and contribute significantly in the harder ones (assuming you've got some skill backing you up =) )
Then you run Heroics until your eyes bleed. Get the best stuff you can from badges and end-bosses. When you're starting to see upgrades coming few and far between, start looking for 10s.
You should be pulling 1.7-2k in Heroics by this point, depending on the fight and your build. Some builds suck on trash, but are *great* on bosses or longer fights. Also remember that in a 10-man raid, you'll be getting a few more buffs than you would in 5-mans, and this will help your DPS as well. (This is further amplified in 25s, where you'll be getting (hopefully) a *full* set of raid buffs, replenishment, etc...)
AShadowPriest May 12th 2009 9:09AM
I really dislike it when people specify "x DPS minimum for invite" or other related criteria. It is literally impossible to quantify expected DPS unless you are talking about one specific situation. For example, on a Heroic Target Dummy. And I do 4k+ dps in a well-constructed 25man raid but I'm not going to brag about my 2800 dps on a target dummy. The only other option is, like the theorycrafters at Elitist Jerks, to simply assume that the player in question has all available raid buffs period. This assumption makes sense when comparing top end capabilities of classes in progression guilds in progression content. However it makes little to no sense to compare these imaginary situations to reality when you're spamming for group members in Dalaran.
So, if you're one of those people that sits in Dalaran spamming Trade with something to the effect of "LF 1 DPS 10 man Ulduar 4k dps please" you're an idiot. You're not even going to guarantee you're going to get a decent dps'er either. Depending on your group makeup and buff synergy, my 4k+DPS in 25 man Naxx can turn into 3k or less. It's just how the game works. By the time you lower your "required DPS"to an accurate and representative level for the instance you're finding group members for, the less useful and discriminating your ad is going to be.
Therefore, please don't encourage meter padding and bads that raid with one eye fixed on Recount with those LFM ads.
What you want is a 2.8k dpser who will stay alive to the end of the fight, rather than a 3.8k dps'er who dies to a void zone ten seconds into the fight. You're not going to be able to find that kind of player much more easily than simply taking who you can find (in an appropriate level of gear) and giving the instance a go.
Lephturn May 12th 2009 9:37AM
I have 2 comments. First for the original article:
"Additionally, you do no DPS if you're dead. That means you need to know all the fights before you enter the instance / raid. If you die, you do zero DPS and are a prime candidate to be replaced."
That's great, how do you suppose anyone new learn the fights? Sure you can read up on them, but the first few times, they are gonna cause problems anyway. This ends up meaning that players new to raiding can't get into it at all, since you need experience to "not die", and you can't get the experience without... well dieing.
Second comment is DPS in general. It's laughable really, I'm pretty casual and I PUG quite a bit. As a Meta warlock I'll, if asked, say something like (1,8k - 2,5k DPS). Then I get back "Lolz, what is it 1.8k or 2.5K?" Duh, it depends on the fight and the situation, what buffs I have, etc. I've given up being that accurate, since most people are just confused by it and I say "2K+ DPS" instead. Then I wind up in a PUG where everybody is supposed to be 2k+DPS... but I'm the only one who can pull that in the Heroic and the other 2 DPS do 1,300. Or the tank is under geared and we have to CC and single pull, so as a Warlock I'm not going to crack 2k. Etc. The point of all of this is... don't bother asking what somebody says their DPS is. Just look at their gear and talk to them to see if they are reasonably intelligent. If they have mostly blues and a brain, they'll be fine.
Houston May 12th 2009 10:14AM
I have a question... What do raid leaders do when say you've got a 10 Ulduar scheduled but only 7-8 people show up. One good suggestion I just read was to do Naxx with 8 for some achievements. I was just curious what tricks raid leaders have up their sleeve when attendance is lacking before a scheduled raid.
Fadmin May 12th 2009 11:10AM
During a corpse run, why is it that you can run on water, but have to swim through lava? I'm looking at you Shadowmoon Valley.
wow May 12th 2009 11:17AM
god damn those numbers are low i just hit a new record of 5.7k dps on 10 man patch woot
Dunnion May 12th 2009 11:31AM
Being someone who just rolled a Lvl 1 alt I disagree about the jewel crafting trainer. Trying to get my human ass over to The Exodar proved to be very troublesome.
Kylenne May 13th 2009 3:14AM
Really?
How to get to the Exodar as a level 1 human: Walk to SW. Take two boats, the second of which puts you off damn near at the backdoor of the Exodar.
Seriously. You might have had an argument prior to 3.0 and the completion of the SW Harbor, when the death run through Wetlands was still required for EK-Kalimdor crossing. Now? Jesus, no.
God, people are lazy. Horde have even less of an excuse, unless they are level 1 Tauren.
actodd May 12th 2009 11:50AM
Is there a step-by-step beginner's guide to accessing the PTR?
I clicked on the link from the login screen and downloaded the installer, but I'm not sure where to go from there. Do I install it in with the other WoW files? Should it stand alone? Can I save it to my desktop?
This obviously, is my first attempt at the PTR, I'd like to try a pre-made disc priest, but whenever I try figure it out, I run up against another obstacle and just play real WoW instead.
Mclock May 12th 2009 6:55PM
Wierd. According to this, I can run 25 mans. According to everyone else on my server, I can't even do heroics. So which is it? I have best in slot pre-Naxx. Gear consists of heroics, badges, crafted epics, etc. No one will take me. Been playing since a month after original launch, I'm quite familiar with the game to say the least. Never even seen the inside of Naxx.
failknight May 12th 2009 11:35PM
Ok DPS Leets, tell me where I might be going wrong. I play a DK, running in all Epics, mostly 213 stuff and I rarely break 3k DPS in 25s. In 10s I get like 2.6k. I'm using the basic blood spec EJ recommended, running the rotation they recommend but I just can't break 2.6k.
Obviously I'm doing something wrong, so save calling me a noob. If you were having this issue where's the first place you'd look? The only thing I can think of is that I'm the clean-up guy for my raid - when our tanks miss a mob or worse still dies I'm the guy switching to frost and blowing my CDs to pick up the slack. I also don't really ever bother with AOE damage because it seems like a waste.
I ask because there's another DK in my guild who blows me away on DPS charts with mostly worse gear (she has a BIS weapon, but everything else is worse). She's in UH spec so I guess she's better suited to AOE damage?
Should I be doing 4k DPS like all the other magical DK's I hear about? Should I switch out of Blood, go UH and start spamming DnD? Is that a better service to my guild than single target dps and cleanup crew?
fig May 13th 2009 11:30AM
first guess would expertise. if it isnt capped do that straight away.
while you do that try out unholy more magical damage than phisical (altho i dont know about frost and how much magical/phisical it outputs)
are you useing dw or 2h? if ur dw switch to 2h better dps overall as they nerfed the sweet sweet dw build and the ones left are inferior to 2h builds
if all else fails reroll hunter spec surv and grab that macro from forums one button spam ftw
Chri May 18th 2009 11:59AM
Hmm not sure if this applies to DK but I think part of my success playing as a rogue was pure button spamming.
A lot of casters pull bad dps because they wait until their cast bar is gone before starting the cast the next spell.
Best thing to do is to ask this other DK to come out to the target dummies with you. Ask for their help.