THE GOGGLES!...THEY DO NOTHING!

I don't understand what's fair about it, really.

But then again, now i have a reason to use other, far more powerful helms.

So it's an alright trade i suppose... Now they need to take away perception completely. :)

All blizzard have done here is remove options and choice. Nothing more. Their premise on "helping" characters not have to use lower level items is silly. You CHOOSE to use them. If they were worse, you would CHOOSE not to.

As a side benefit they are buffing rogues in certain situations (who did not need it) and nerfing an already pointless profession and replacing it with nothing.

This is not QQ. This is just what they have done. I was not wearing the helm.

So um...maybe they should nerf stealth instead of the items to detect it?

As someone said further down in the comments, go do Arenajunkies.com and check out all the top rogues, they are ALL using Engi goggles because it's no longer a choice, but almost mandatory to do well against ANY other rogue that are also wearing those googles, especially humans/night elf rogues, there is no choice in the matter, if you wanted to do well you needed it.

If you aren't doing Arena with a rogue or as a rogue in the 2200+ brackets you will never understand the competitive advantage those goggles bring vs other rogues, I can bet 100% that most people that are enforcing 'choice' is on the line of "lol 1 level of stealth detect? sure thats imbalanced", well, it is, looking at it from the view of a bystander it may not be big but from a competitive view it is stupidly overpowered when it comes to Rogue vs Rogue and getting the sap on the other rogue

For any class that isn't a rogue using these goggles the nerf is almost insignificant, classes other than rogues (and maybe feral druids?) have limited base stealth detect, adding an extra level to that rarely ever makes a difference, but for a Rogue vs Rogue situation it's pretty game breaking.

But i don't expect anyone to read this, I'm fairly sure people already in a state of "OMG WHY BUFF ROGUES FFS BLIZZ" and can't see past the fact that it was actually addressing Rogue vs Rogue imbalance and has little to no effect on Rogue vs Other Class, but so is the way of ignorance.

These items didn't really help detecting rogues, anyways. Rogues can talent to be above the figure these items grant for detection.

Probably doesn't matter anyways, rogues will still own in PvP but still suck with PvE. WTB more raid utility, naa. Let them suck.

@Domilol:

This is a buff to rogues. You need to take your argument 1 step further.

Yes, rogues were wearing these items to deal with other rogues in arenas.

Now rogues won't wear these items. They will wear something that will be less powerful vs. rogues and more powerful vs. other classes.

As a result, they'll have somewhat better stats in return for the loss of that stealth detection.

Those improved stats will make them harder to defeat for other, non-stealth classes.

@Gormak

Just because you hit harder doesn't mean you will be doing better, rogues specifically took the goggles because it helped win them more games than the extra stats ever.

Against vsing teams with no rogues them, I guess yes, its a buff, but a small one albeit but against vsing teams with rogues it's undoubtably a nerf, the rogues can no longer get saps at the rate of success they use to be able to (sure it's all realtive, but the reduction of stealth detect means the reduction of the detect aoe meaning there is abit more luck in the equation now than seeing the rogue 10yards out).

Again, sure it may be a small buff against non stealth teams (I see it rather as a change since they already had that capacity) but you have to realize the rogues used those goggles because it won them more games than the other helms ever did. Buff to specifics but a nerf overall.

I think people are misunderstanding the reason Blizzard changed the way these goggles work. I also think Blizzard changed them in the wrong way. The problem was that the goggles were conflicting with their intention to widen the scope of professions. At the last Blizzcon (I believe), the professions team discussed their desire to take away BoP items that were forcing people to become a certain profession for min/maxing. Hence they made all epic crafted items BoE from Blacksmithing, Leatherworking, and Tailoring. The only major crafting profession they didn't change was engineering. I believe they kept this because they wanted to continue to make the engineering profession feel unique (the engineering profession does frequently demand this on the forum). However, this is an example of wanting two contradictory things in WoW: to be unique and to be balanced.

Because the powerful engineering goggles were BoP, people had to switch to the profession to get the goggles for the desired PvP effects. stealth detection. This created the conflict of interest they have been addressing in the last two patches. They have been nerfing all the BoP engineering items. While some of those nerfs have been deserved, they could level the playing field a lot by allowing non-engineers to equip those items. Yes, keep the hand and cloak enchants specific to Engineers. Yes, allow only engineers to use flying machines. But there is no reason to keep the equippable Engineering items specific to the engineering profession. They will have to continuously nerf them or people will continue to flock to the profession for undesired reasons.