Ready Check: Casual meets hardcore

Ready Check is a weekly column focusing on successful raiding for the serious raider. Hardcore or casual, Archavon or Algalon, everyone can get in on the action and down some bosses. This week, I attempt to find common ground with a casual player who's never raided and doesn't want to.
This weekend, I spent several hours talking shop with a woman who, as well as being a casual player, also has the unfortunate privilege of having given birth to me some time previously. As well as being my mum, Lynn is a gamer, and a few years ago I managed to lure her away from Guild Wars -- where she never got past level 10 -- to WoW. She now plays a level 80 enhancement shaman, as well as uncountably many alts (far more than me, and I'm an altoholic).
However, she's very cautious about group play. She socialises with her guild and has run the odd 5-man dungeon, but doesn't really understand the scene beyond that. Despite playing more than enough hours to join a raiding guild, she hasn't, and with raiding now very much accessible to all, I was curious why.
My mother isn't really a hardcore casual, despite her long playtimes (I've logged on at 5am to see her still questing). At risk of cutting myself from any future Christmas presents, I'll go as far as to say she's almost the opposite. With little desire to understand the game and, instead, a much larger desire to just whack and zap stuff -- and tosh to the consequences -- she got to level 80 with more or less permanent res sickness, and plenty of help 'sorting out her buttons' whenever our paths crossed.
Her playstyle is a strange mix of 'do whatever you want' carelessness and in-depth knowledge on certain areas. She was an expert on the Isle of Quel'Danas dailies and is a champion herbalist, for example. But her gaming lacks a quality I would want to see in my raiders -- an ability to see the big picture, to understand what's going on around her and how she fits into that. Having shied away from group play, she's simply never worked out how her character can team up with others for mutual benefit.
This is a large reason of why she doesn't raid. Her allergy to 5-mans stems from multiple factors: fear of being incompetent and letting the group down; avoidance of the unknown, as she cannot refer to a questhelper addon while in the party; not wanting to be a nuisance and bother the people around her because she doesn't know what to do; and having no desire to experience the content and rewards contained within instances.
"I'm not good enough"
There are two ways that ignorance and incompetence stop people like my mum ever getting into 5-man and raid content. First is ignorance about what to actually do in a multiplayer situation. At the fundamental level it's things like do I tank, heal or DPS? (And, before that, learning what those words and roles really mean). It's also about trusting other players. I remember when I was a lot newer to the game, playing a feral druid as I still do, occasionally shifting to heal - until the healers I ran with took time to explain that actually, they had the situation well in hand.
I still see players doing this, and there are obviously situations where you *can* and should help, but the level to which a novice hybrid does it -- to which I did it -- was excessive. Similarly, I've seen players step in to 'tank' when I had everything under control, causing wasted taunt cooldowns and the like. (I'm also guilty of this.) This only goes to show it's hard to know what your role even is at times, and if you're used to soloing as a hybrid, it can be hard to stick to one role.
So, I explained to my mother what she would be doing in a typical 5-man as an enhancement shaman. Hitting stuff. Putting totems down. Casting Heroism during boss fights.
"Boss fights?"
"The really hard enemies that take quite a while to die. There's often just one of them at a time, and they have special moves..."
"How do you know what they all do?"
"Ah... you fight them and see, or someone explains it to you."
Oh dear. Already we're in a little bit of trouble. As someone accustomed to 5-mans or raids, the idea of a boss fight is something I really struggled to explain. Perhaps that's how it should be, though; something figured out by experimentation. How dull a game it would become if we expected a list of precise instructions before every fight! By playing with those who don't mind if we do something a bit stupid (as long as we don't make a habit of it), it's far easier to just go with the flow.
Instructions Not Included
And that's where the QuestHelper mentality that has driven my mother to 80 fails. She does have an intuitive grasp of many concepts, but when it comes to game strategy, she blindly follows arrows, hits stuff, follows arrows back, and turns in. This isn't really great preparation for group play, and neither's avoiding end-of-quest-line showdowns with elites (she generally tries to solo them a few times, fails, then gives up).
How to bridge this with the on-the-fly reactions of raiding? Firstly, guides. Pointing her to the existence of columns, guides, videos and other step-by-step explanations of the first few fights in Naxx, the reaction was "that all looks horribly complicated, I'll never remember it all".
So our next tactic was some rules. "Always go behind the baddie to hit it." "If you see something that looks like fire.. you should probably move." "If the boss is moving then you probably need to run to keep hitting it." (Never mind "how do I press arrow keys and numbers at the same time?") Again, I really struggled here. I didn't dare get into details of DPS rotations, totem placement, which spell to use on Maelstrom procs and when to use on-use trinkets. All that can come later.
Combining these with some simplified fight explanations tailored to her spec seemed to work, and this is pretty much what her guildies will tell her when she joins the first raid. "He's going to fly away and some skeletons will come, you need to hit those until he comes back, then go back to hitting him." Easy enough to grasp, and if you take it one fight at a time, it becomes manageable. It's the sheer thought of everything at once that makes one panic.
Why should I bother?
The biggest barrier to raiding for someone like my mother, though, is motivation. She claims time, but I know full well she can make Sunday evening raids with her guild. (Although her priorities, such as perhaps wanting an early night, or having to put the washing on, might cause difficulties when the entire raid is waiting for her to come back.)
Loot, achievements and other 'tangible' rewards are very strong motivators for most of us who raid. Although the experience, and the social aspect, are great too, I wonder how many people would stop raiding if loot stopped dropping. After all, part of the joy of a new kill is access to new shinies that nobody else has.
This may be my capitalist and materialist side showing through; I know people who simply raid for the experience, of course. But to be honest, many hardcore raiders have people in their guilds they don't really like, and why keep playing with these people if there wasn't some other reward involved?
(Explaining this concept to my mother over tea, I ended up drawing out a long and complicated workplace analogy based on Sharon from accounts. I recommend this approach, although "why anyone would want a second job when they've got one already I don't know".)
It's odd, but when you look at it objectively, she simply does not want new loot. In fact, it almost scares her a little; she likes getting upgrades to some extent, but agonises over whether item X is better than item Y, as well as confusing vital stats and equipping entirely the wrong items. The idea of getting full tier 8 or even more than a couple of epics is alien, especially when I start explaining loot systems. Fair enough. We don't all play for the purpz.
Common ground
I guess the moral of the long, drawn-out, painful conversations I have had with this non-hardcore casual have taught me one thing. The generation gap, whether it be between hardcore raider and solo quester, baby boomer and Gen X, or age and treachery versus youth and skill, means we'll never quite understand each other.
For someone happy in their own questing and socialising world, the idea of giving up countless hours a week to spend valuable gold and time with people you don't necessarily like is as alien as the reverse is to people aiming for world firsts. One thing's for certain, though; transferring away from her server was the best thing I ever did.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Ready Check (Raiding)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Pranius May 16th 2009 4:09PM
cool story bro
Eternauta May 16th 2009 9:25PM
Why did anybody downrank this guy?
He said it was cool. I don't think he said it sarcasticly.
I may be wrong though.
theRaptor May 16th 2009 11:28PM
"cool story bro" is a sarcastic reply you see all over the *chans.
Like everything from the chans it spreads to WoW.
Trasken May 16th 2009 4:10PM
Rather good article, felt rather bloggish (as it should and all) and gave some nice insight.
I liked it!
Nathan May 16th 2009 4:15PM
I think you attribute too much of your mother's shortcomings to Questhelper. More likely, like me and my wife, she simply doesn't enjoy playing the game under pressure.
Raiding, even with guildies, entails that failure will cause inconvenience to others. The fear of failure, and the embarrassment of being "corrected" by a surly kid 20 years your junior, is a powerful disincentive.
I play the game for me, not for others. The minute I have to worry about them, it becomes a job instead of a game.
Mith May 16th 2009 5:47PM
That's a disincentive for me against trying any team-based activity in any game, yes. I rarely run instances for fear of being criticised if I make a mistake and affect others by doing so.
Hansbo May 16th 2009 5:44PM
I agree with you, but there are some negatives with this as well
I've had some problems with fear of success (That is, I've had some problems, during TBC, with trying to start raiding). When I tried to start raiding I thought it was quite a big step to do.
What you've got to realize it's not that big a step. Boss tactics are easier than you might think once you've realized how to sort out what is important for your role and what's not important (in fact, most boss fights come down to avoiding one single thing - the difficult thing is the coordination, not the individual role).
I agree that you should play the game for yourself and not others, but you must realize that the socializing part of world of warcraft is a part of the charm of this game. The added pressure of raids are mostly imaginary.
Krick May 17th 2009 4:25AM
I can definitely sympathize with her mother on a lot of points and I felt the same way. When I first started playing, I grouped exclusively with two of my friends and only did quests, and only the ones we could complete with 3 people. We never had 5 people to do a dungeon, so we just skipped them all. We eventually all hit 70. My two friends got bored and stopped playing.
I started solo leveling a protection paladin. When I got into my 60s, I had a few people in the same guild ask me to tank some dungeons for them. This was a fiasco until I started to learn first how to tank, and second work with 4 other people in a dungeon. Eventually, they started pestering me to join their guild because they wanted to put together a second Kara group (the guild already had been running it for a while) I resisted for a long time because I really didn't want to be in a raiding guild. I didn't like (and still don't like) the idea of having to commit large blocks of time and several nights a week for raiding.
Eventually, I had run every heroic in Outland many, many times and had the absolute best pre-Kara gear available, so I gave in and let them talk me into running Kara with them one night. I fell in love with Kara that first run (not raiding per-se, just Kara). After that, I joined their guild and ran Kara every Thursday for the next several months. Eventually everyone else got sick of Kara (but not me) and wanted to move onto higher raid content.... Gruul, Mag, ZA, etc... I ran and completed Gruul and Mag about 5 times each. I attempted ZA about 10 times, but never made it all the way through. We never managed to clear it in one night, and I always had other commitments that prevented me from running the second night. Eventually some in the guild wanted to move onto SSC, which we attempted for a few weeks and never got past the third boss. About that time, the guild blew up and the best geared people left for a more "serious" raiding guild.
Shortly after that, Wrath came out. Some of what was left of our guild rushed to 80 with their mains to get into Naxx. The rest of us took our time and enjoyed the content or started alts. There were certainly a lot of deathknights. The ones that rushed to 80 soon became frustrated with our lack of progression and most of them left for other guilds.
One of the things that always frustrated me about raiding, especially being a tank, was the constant gear churn. Every new piece requires a re-balancing of stats in order to min-max everything, usually requiring new gems and/or enchants. During BC, this was very very draining financially. I was perpetually poor. It wasn't until Wrath hit that I was finally able to save up enough gold for an epic flying mount by questing. I made sure that I got it for myself before I began raiding again.
I only managed to get into Naxx10 a few times before the second exodus. Neither of them full clears. I suppose that I could have pushed harder to 80 and signed up for more raid nights, but frankly, at that point, raiding seemed more like work than play. I know that everyone said that Naxx10 was ez-mode but we sure had a hell of a time with it. I don't know if it was poor class balance, lack of skill, or lack of gear, or a combination of them all but we had a horrible time with the 4 horsemen and KT. To me, the fights seemed to be a lot more random than anything we had faced in Kara. Overall, it felt like a lot more pressure, and I didn't enjoy it.
Sadly, my guild now has trouble getting enough people to do Naxx10 most weeks. There's more than enough 80s in the guild, but many don't log in that much anymore. I suspect that some got burnt out on WoW and were secretly glad the guild blew up. Some probably couldn't stomach the thought of grinding Naxx for months for gear to have it all become worthless when Ulduar came out, and I feel the same way. I think that others got sick of the increased focus on daily quests instead of epic questlines that take a long time to complete. I always hated daily quests and Wrath is full of them. Honestly, there's only so much grinding daily quests a person can take. Fancy mounts, non-combat pets, and silly titles just aren't enough incentive for most of us.
We've never stepped foot in Ulduar as a guild (or Naxx 25 for that matter, along with most of the end-game raids in Outland) and I doubt that we will at this point. Part of me is sad. I really miss the fun I had in Kara. I've tried to organize guild runs on older raid content that most of us have never seen... AQ, SCC, BT, etc... but the turnout is always poor. It seems that most people have a limited amount of play time and they want to focus on getting gear, which you can't do if you're goofing off in Molten Core.
Anymore, I don't want to even log on most of the time because I find WoW depressing because the only choices are pugging a raid or grinding dailes. Most of the time, I can't even get in a pug raid because I don't know the fights that well, which is kind of a problem if you're one of the tanks. It's kind of a chicken and egg problem at this point.
So to come back to the original point, yeah, I can sympathize with her mother. Where I'm at now, I could probably attempt Ulduar with a pug, but there'd be a lot of pressure on me to not fail, which I'd inevitably do, and let a lot of people down. At this point, I'd be happy finding a few friends who just want to run a Thursday night full-clear Kara 5-man every week for fun.
...
Krick
http://www.tankadin.com
Sarabande May 17th 2009 6:22AM
I have to agree as well. While I do like gear, like running 5 mans sometimes (but never with a full PuG) and try to learn as much as I can about the game and class through sites like this one, Thottbot, WoWWiki, etc, I like to play for fun.
Many of the reasons she stated for her mom NOT liking to run in groups are well founded. And I can understand them. When I run with friends, even though they are very patient and willing to teach me so much (and they are one of the reasons I love the game so much) I hate letting them down - wasting their time, wasting their gold on repair costs, and it is a bit embarrassing not remembering a boss fight from several weeks ago.
Also, while the game may have become more "casual" it still often doesn't feel like it. With people posting dps requirements (like in the article some days ago) it's very discouraging. And often, not even realistic. I've run some of the easier heroics with a group with less dps than many posted. And people are very impatient and less forgiving. They would rather boot someone then explain things to help with the game. Or they want fast runs . . not someone unfamiliar with the boss fights to slow them down. I realize that you have to be reasonable . . I mean, you don't want to wipe 5 times on H-VH or spend four hours on H-Nexus. But you don't have to have a perfect and super speedy run either.
And as an older gamer (not REALLY old, just probably old enough to be the mom of say, a teen, though I'm not a mom) there are other considerations. Some of us have less tolerance of the kind of bad behavior and rudeness that often come with running in groups. We were taught as children to be respectful of adults and now that we are grown up, we expect that same kind of treatment as well, even in a fictional setting. I was reluctant to even START playing an mmo because of the thought of some 10 year old calling me "n00b"
There are also some physical aspects as well. While I know there are people over 35 or 40 with great reflexes and speed, some of us may not have it and what seems to be an easy fight to most and comments like "if you can't move out of the way of the fire you fail" and claims such as "ANY 80 should be able to dps at least 2000" make it rather difficult for us to feel accepted if being slow to cast or move out of the way of danger lightening fast isn't the easiest thing for us.
As my mom said about things "You'll understand once you're my age."
The best thing I can suggest is that your mom find a group of friends that will make her feel welcome and comfortable. Have people explain correct gear itemization, boss fights and other aspects of the game, and who are willing to treat the instances as . .. well, a GAME not a job. Find people who are fun, respectful, and patient - some people LOVE showing newbies and casual people the ropes, and care more about that than just gearing themselves up fast. If at all possible, have her run in these kinds of what I call "protective" groups. PuGs will most likely only discourage her.
And if she still doesn't like it, there are still so much more to do in the game - tons of dailies, argent tournament, using professions for fun and profit, and just meeting people.
Tirrimas May 17th 2009 12:20PM
@Sarabande:
I found myself nodding in agreement throughout your comment.
I'm also an older player, and very much dislike the snarky attitude so prevalent among late-game players. It makes it very difficult for a newb (I only have one toon at 80) to find any helpful advice without being called stupid.
I want to do the best I can. I don't want to let my fellow players down when I group with them. I want to experience everything there is in the game - I'm a huge lore nerd and want to learn everything. Do I put a lot of pressure on myself? Yes. It's hard sometimes to see that I'm the only one doing so. My guildmates have been totally supportive and forgiving, and I love them for it.
I've done one Naxx25 and one partial Ulduar10 run. Hours of tension and family aggro were not my idea of a great time. I might try again, now that I know what to expect, but it's definitely not something I can handle every single week. I wantz the purplz, but I realize now that I can't dedicate the time to acquiring them quickly - it's going to take a while. And I'm ok with that.
AishaLove May 16th 2009 4:15PM
I'd love to see his mom's comments about this, if she does care to comment, I think he should update the article with her comments at the bottom :P
Wulfhere May 16th 2009 4:29PM
The author of this piece is female.
AishaLove May 16th 2009 4:38PM
ok she, thanks for the correction though
scritty May 16th 2009 4:18PM
Fear of the unknown is a major factor. I have 3 level 80's and have never raided at an appropriate level with a group (I've solo'd and boosted)
The game for me is all about the economy, Between the skill sets of my ALT's (3 80's and 2 between 70 and 80) I can create just about anything, I farm, produce, enchant, buy and sell.
I would love to raid, I understand gear (just about) but having seen it done competatively, I just can't be doing with all the shouting and aggravation. (And I date back well before TBC, and clock up 15-20 hours a week every week).
If raiding was more friendly, and people got less uptight about Noobs, then I'd give it a go...
Eamara May 16th 2009 5:14PM
'If raiding was more friendly, and people got less uptight about Noobs, then I'd give it a go...'
The videos you've seen would most likely be from the 'World First' crowd. They strive for perfection, and cannot allow mistakes. However, there are plenty of guilds out there that raid just for fun. The guilds will still expect you to try, to properly prepare with consumables et al, but if you make a mistake then nobody will get angry with you. They are rational people, and understand that mistakes are only human.
So in short: please do not write off raiding as something that only the 'leet pwners' do. There are plenty of people who raid for the social, fun aspect as well. Try to find a guild such as that, and I'm sure you'd have a good time while raiding.
Ercles May 17th 2009 12:56AM
It sounds what you need is an newb friendly guild. There are several guilds that are willing to help out and teach those who have never raided before. :)
BobThomas May 16th 2009 4:24PM
I don't raid much or run too many 5-mans because I've yet to find more then 11 people who aren't complete shit at this super easy game. I have a few core friends who are excellent and when they are on we run things together, but 99.9% of the other people in this people are garbage. It's not worth my time to sort through the terribles to find another good player.
Trasken May 16th 2009 4:34PM
Sounds to me you have the same thing going on that I did last expansion pack.
You find a crew that you "click" with and it essentially makes everyone else look like crap in comparison (if that makes any sense). Running any kind of raid used to kill me if it wasn't with them because we'd wipe on stupid simple stuff (Archimonde... fire = not friendly... no brainer).
I've gotten a bit more forgiving in regards to not-so-good players lately (especially if they're newbies).
Hairfish May 16th 2009 9:32PM
"...but 99.9% of the other people in this people [sic] are garbage."
Your attitude is why many people don't raid. You suck the life out of any PUG you're in.
Sarabande May 17th 2009 8:25AM
This is the reason people like the author's mom and people like me (and many others) are reluctant to group. Such attitudes make newbies and people who may be inexperienced with instances and raids NOT want to try it any further. Because you make them feel like "shit"
Thank you for the fine example. :(