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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsForum post of the day: Be disciplined about healing meters
by Amanda Dean 
May 17th 2009 at 2:00PM
Mellere of Wildhammer posted a brief lament about her guild leaders treatment of a Discipline Priest. The discipline priest was below a Retadin on HPS. Without understanding the role of mitigation as a healer, the Raid Leader told him to go holy to bring up his HPS. The OP expressed disappointment in the RL at this action.Several responders posted that this is partly the fault of Blizzard as they don't take into account shielding and mitigation to healing scores in the combat log. Daerilla of Spirestone intimated that she did not want to see mitigation included in healing figures, because then people would take notice of how overpowered Disc Priests are in raids. There were some less-than-kind comments about the Raid Leader's competence.
Raid leaders, be sure to give credit where credit is due. Trust that your healing leader and raiders know what they're doing. The raid leader should have a decent understanding of class/spec roles, and adjust their expectations respectively. If the GM is in charge of making healing assignments, be sure to give healers appropriate assignments. Not based on HPS, but based on healing abilities. It some cases it might be best to give a healer the opportunity to dole out orders to the healers.
As Mike Schramm pointed out, basing "performance" off healing meters can lead to doom for a raid. This practice supports over-healing and potential mana issues. When healing becomes a competition healers can lose sight of their assignments and slow down or even wipe the raid. As always remember to keep meters in perspective. It's not about being a star, or a prima dona, raiding is about working together as a team to accomplish a common goal.
Filed under: Priest, Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Raiding, Talents, Forum Post of the Day
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
Priestess May 18th 2009 2:17AM
I was happy that SOMEONE mentioned Webstats (WWS), even if it took a while to bring it up. Since our guild has hit Ulduar, this is THE meter for our healers. We have a chat time after each run and look over the log to see who heals whom, how much is effective, who's casting what & how often, where we need to tweak things, etc. No one looks at Recount for healers, period. If you lead raids or heal and you're not familiar with this, you probably should check it out. If you want to know your healers, their spells, and their strengths and weaknesses, use WWS. The numbers won't lie.
Gothia May 18th 2009 2:53AM
I told these idiot Disc priest earlier what is going to happen and what happened? I got ridiculed and lambasted by others in my class that I didn't know how to play and I am behind the times. Well all I have to say to all of you pro-disc idiots is FU. Now what do you think about me you silly Priest bringing a PvP spec into Ulduar your not in Naxx anymore idiots. What is the triad of Wow let tell you once more it is
TANKING DPS HEALING >>>>> WHERE IS MITIGATION?????
How many disc priest do you need in a RAID === F-ING ZERO
GET IT GOT IT .................DONE
Tribunal May 18th 2009 4:58AM
There are bad discs out there.
That being said, a good disc is an asset to any raid, even/especially in Ulduar.
Mitigation is what tanks do, it's part of tanking. And now this special little priest can help them do a whole hell of a lot more of it.
Gothia May 18th 2009 5:26AM
Tribunal
That also depends on their assignment in the raid which is not normally a tank healer since most progression guilds have that slot for our Paladin. The problem lies in their primary job is a healer and if the number don't add up then we have problems. Yes, there are some exceptional Disc raid healers that pull their weight, but for the most part the majority are poor healers and actually avoid healing because they invest too much mana in shielding. All priest specs holy/shadow/disc can and do shield which equals mitigation so their is nothing special about a disc priest other than the damage their shield can withstand. Healing should be every healers primary concern and shielding is secondary. The attitude that I will shield and let the other healers worry about healing damage is BS and is like having an empty healer spot in your raid. Raid leaders should be concerned about a healer that isn't healing and people that say meters don't show the whole picture are wrong because in the OP's situation it showed a healer that was not doing his primary job. I am so tired of Disc Priests saying don't use recount because even if mitigation is used you should still be in the general area as the rest of your healers and not 25-45% below everyone else because you are not pulling your weight.
Kirke May 18th 2009 11:17AM
@Gothia
You obviously have never looked at a Disc priests talents so I will explain a few things for you. If a Disc priest is not casting PWS they are doing it wrong. Thye don't just cast PWS so they can sit back and not have to heal. Fro one, casting PWS increases the haste of their next spell and two, their healing is increased on targets afflicted by weakend soul which someone can only get by having PWS shield cast upon them. So next time do a little research first before making yourself look like a complete fool.
Stephen May 18th 2009 1:46PM
@Gothia
I thought you quit playing your priest, moron..
For those who don't know, Gothia quit playing his priest months ago because Blizzard are a bunch of "facists" who "ruined" the priest class by making Disc a viable healing spec.
So it's now Gothia's solemn duty to roam the world and troll any thread that mentions Disc priests. To remind everyone that Blizzard intended Disc to be a PvP spec and only a PvP spec. It's been that way since vanilla WoW and always will be. Oh, and to remind people that shields are for nubs and no one will take Disc priests to raids, right Gothia? Loser.
Tribunal May 18th 2009 7:22PM
I got all excited for a moment and thought I was going to get an intelligent response.
A. A Disc priest is a (mostly) single target healer. Placing them on a tank is usually quite a good plan. Disc Priest + Holy Pally on the tanks is how a lot of Progression guilds do it. The Disc Priest will often also be given specific targets to toss bubbles out on, like people with Napalm Shell on Mimi or Light/Grav Bomb on XT-002, the list goes on and on.
B. For every shield a Disc throws out that actually takes damage, that's a little bit of healing that they, or someone else, didn't have to do. It might as well count towards their +healing. Why do you think a lot of the other healing classes get some sort of bubble?
C. The idea that all discs do is bubble is laughable. Penance is a heal, Prayer of Mending is a heal, Flash Heal/Greater Heal is a heal (depending on which is your preference to use).
ALL that being said, yes, there are bad disc priest out there (just like there are bads of any class) and it can be a little easier for them to hide from a RL or Class Leader since meters are so useless at measuring a disc priest's effectiveness, for the good or for the bad.
But a good disc priest, or even an average one who does their job? You've got it all wrong, my friend.
Spazmoosifer May 18th 2009 3:03AM
Just curious, because I know that our healers do not use this method (but still work together quite well, with relatively low overheals). Is it possible to set up a healing channel that these messages broadcast to, instead of spamming raid chat?
If so, I could see this being extremely beneficial, because you could set up a window that only watches that channel, and place that window in a different location from your other chat windows (if you want).
Lyraat May 18th 2009 9:21AM
Yes. Our healers have their own channel (classist healers won't let a friendly hunter in! :D). Just like making any other channel. Visit www.wowwiki.com/Chat for details.
Dogmeat May 19th 2009 9:26AM
Put some clear water into the glass. Disc priest and Holy pally are in the same level since 3.1. Pally is a bit better in single target heals, in the other hand disc has many ways to help out the party and the raid. As the mechanics of the two classes are almost opposite, they integrate together awesomely. Pally + Disc together is unbeatable at the moment.
I did many 10-mans as a disc with a pally mate who have almost the same gear and experience level as me. We don't need more healers and from this I can see we perform on the same level. For leaders I suggest to do hard heroics, or 10-mans with 2 healers only if they want to judge someone's performance. If the player does well, you will feel it.
The job of the disc have been changed a lot since 3.1. It isn't a single target only healer anymore, but of course, he is not a raid healer. The spec is somewhere between. The current config can handle MT healing, AND give raid heal support in the same time. Use it for the right task.
Someone asked how many disc is necessary in a raid. Well, any raid can be done without any specific class. The question is how easily. Discipline makes incoming damage smooth, and does eliminate damage peaks. If you are a raid healer, you must feel the difference. The backside is that disc priests are stacking very badly, 1-2 is really enough in a raid and should be no more. This is because of the mechanics of the shield (weakened soul) and the mana regen which comes from absorbed shields.
This is enough about the class. The main part of the story at the moment is not the class but the player's skill. Disc priest came a long way from arenas into the raid healing. Disc is still hard to play and because of this there are many "not so good" disc healers outside. This spec isn't a 2 button healer. It's not a healbot spec. 5-6 spells are at least in use continuously, and only 1 of them is capable for spamming. But that one is the Flash Heal, which is a fast small heal, and will not solve your tasks.
If a disc priest plays the class well, you can see it on the meters. He must be the last on it from any aspect. Total heal, HPS and overheal. If any other class is under disc, he is the bottleneck.
Sinthar May 18th 2009 7:02AM
LOL RL's are making a BIG mistake imo if their just looking at meters. There is no way on gods green earth that meters are the be all and end all in wow. A useful tool - if used correctly - i grant you. But as a dps, from the 1st time i ran naxx and started decursing, someone went - look i beat sinth that time. I then just linked the decursing meters - 98% was me. At that time noone knew what would happen if noone decursed. Many thought it wasnt important. I missed the next naxx run. They wiped about 8 times before someone else thought of decursing.
Healers do even more 'non direct' things, including shielding. So how can you judge them by the same meters?
Overhealing also plays a big role. Anyhow at work gotta go.
Cya folks
Maraetha May 18th 2009 5:51AM
Meters don't say everything... They really don't. I'm not saying I don't look at them after a boss try or after the raid, but for other stuff then "who tops the meters!". Disc is indeed low on the lists, but there is a new recountaddon called "recountguessedabsorbs" where they keep track of absorbed damage. It gives an idea about what disc is doing with absords (A LOT!). Absorbs are things that always come before heals, no overabsorbing,... Disc shields are good, and having a disc priest in my team is for me a must (reason I'm holy / disc). Making a disc go holy just for more hps... *sigh*
SINisterWyvern May 18th 2009 7:18AM
This is how I view the success of the healers:
1. Did we win the fight?
-yes (go to 2)
-no (well what happened?)
2. Did everyone who played intelligently live?
-yes (good job healers!)
-no (let's figure out why. could be due to various factors)
Ciren May 19th 2009 10:19AM
I think that the ingame meters are more than sufficent to monitor how the healers are doing....I think they're called Health bars....
Know who's healing who and you shouldn't have to rely on any form of statistical data beyond "Why is your healing assignment dead?" And even then, the best healer in the universe can't do anything about dps being suicidal or a tank pulling more than he can handle.
Being a good healer is knowing what the raid is doing and keeping people up, generally in the order, Tank, Healers, DPS.
If you don't get that you don't need a meter, you need a new game.
Lise May 18th 2009 9:50AM
1. It's not enough to beat the boss imo. Most of the people posting here are probably working through normal mode 25 man Ulduar (YOGG) at the moment. This is not a dig, I am one of these people. But harder bosses and harder modes and achievements await, and these will require better playing, and better healing. On easier bosses and in normal modes, your better (read: not higher on the healing meter) healers could very well be carrying your lesser healers, who are probably not as quick and adaptable at choosing targets for healing or choosing the best spells at any given moment. To say that a healing meter (and not a DPS meter) should be replaced by a "WIN" screen is absolutely ridiculous. Probably 95% of 25 man raiding guilds working on Ulduar are carrying lesser healers in their midst.
2. The mitigation healing mechanics are still new and, from what I've seen, and certainly with Recount, there really aren't adequate and speedy methods of comparing them to oldstyle (holy/other classes) healers that I've seen. You can compare them to others of their class on the meters, but what'd be even better would be to run 10 or 5man with them content with them, or to gather input from your other officers who are running this kind of content with them, where they're less likely to be carried by other healers if their talent spec and/or skill is fail.
3. Let's exclude mitigation mechanics for a second as this thread has gone off track. There is a lot to be said for healing meters, including HPS, activity and spell selection. Generally, better healers place higher. DUH. It's true, and people need to face it. If you consider individual fights, anomalies can take place, a lesser healer might take a higher position on the chart due to doing something they're not supposed to be doing (group healing melee on Patchwerk type of nonsense) and certain fights tend to favor single-target vs. group healing classes and specs, BUT the trends for the night and for the week will speak for themselves, and the healers with more appropriate spell selection, anticipation of incoming damage (this is really key), quick thinking and reaction time, they are going to be higher consistently than the lesser healers. The real problem with healing meters is the same problem you get when people start studying the DPS meters mid-raid - people get sloppy trying to place higher. With DPS, this might mean pulling threat; with healers, it might mean neglecting their tank target.
In the end, if the raid leader from the OP's story is planning to run without a single disc priest in the raid, it's a mistake. As to whether or not this priest in question sucks, I can't say. The raid leader (or a dependable officer) needs to get the priest into a 10man and take a real look.
Vinna May 18th 2009 2:42PM
Any RL that looks soley at healing on a healing meter is doing themselves a disservice. (same as soley basing performance on a DPS meter for dps)
I was in an OS25 pug the other day on my resto druid and people were touting the healing meter. I was kind of in the middle, but I know I was doing the majority of the decursing. When RL's get too focused on healing meters people stop doing other things, like decursing, which can make or break a fight.
Radiophonic May 19th 2009 7:15AM
Did your raid wipe? No? Your healers are working as intended. Have a nice day.
Steikfrit May 19th 2009 8:17AM
I'm a tank. Right now we're doing Vezax in Ulduar 25 and we did put him at 60 % on the first try. And it was easier in 25 than in 10. The difference ? We have two healers that did respec to Disc and I'm not longer getting my bear ass fried on that boss. I was getting pwned in the Ulduar 10 on Vezax and thanks to the healers now in Ulduar 25 it's even easier than in Ulduar 10...
When we wipe, we know exactly why. We don't need a meter. If an interrupt cycle is botched or aggro is taken all along while I'm running away on shadow strikes, and people DPS like pigs while my aggro is not going up.. The raid leader is a healer, at the back of the raid and he sees what people are doing. When we wipe, he knows exactly when something did wrong, and what we must fix. As soon anything is wrong he says "wipe" and we all stop and die and come back for the next try. Some mistakes are so fatal that he can call for an immediate wipe (we don't want to spend a few minutes fighting for nothing since we're gonna die).
My only advice is : if you think you have a problem of healing, ask the healers. The healers between themselves are far better finding what's wrong than the raid leader. The raid leader is not all knowing.
Go download "Wow Cardio Raid" too from the same author as Wow Cartographer. Very good for analysis.
rhooke May 19th 2009 9:21AM
Funny, this is one of the reasons I switched mains to a disc priest about 6 months back.
I used to play a rogue, and before that, an elemental shaman, and before that, etc etc etc. Always with the DPS, I was addicted to my meters - I knew that it didn't really provide an entirely accurate measure of my performance, yet I couldn't stop.
So, I switched to a class and spec that doesn't meter well. (of course, I've been topping the meters lately in my 10-mans, but I think that has more to do with the other healers needing to pick it up than me being sooooo awesome. :P)
Clint May 19th 2009 12:57PM
As a high AP retadin who is doing my job and spamming judgement of light, I am typically high on both the DPS and healing charts. In fact, I often am ahead of some of the assigned healers. I must be uber!
Or not. My healing is pretty much incidental to my main job, and while I'm sure it fractionally helps out the main healers, it isn't a big factor in the raid. But the meter doesn't show that; it just shows a flat output.
Meters are marginally useful, I suppose, but mostly just make for annoying spam. We all know who is pulling their weight and who isn't in a raid, and it isn't because we looked at a meter.