Raid Rx: 5 Factors to consider for Rebirth

Every week, Raid Rx will help you quarterback your healers to victory! Your host is Matt Low, the grand poobah of World of Matticus and a founder of No Stock UI, a new WoW blog for all things UI, macro, and addon related. This week, we look at Rebirth and what to consider before using them.
There were a few comments from last week's Raid Rx in regards to raid saving abilities. One of the abilities mentioned was the Druid's Rebirth (and to a lesser extent, a Shaman's Reincarnation). Both have their uses.
What's the difference between these two spells and the ones mentioned last week?
The main difference lies in when the abilities can be used.Players have to be dead before Reincarnate and Rebirth can be taken advantage of. All the raid saving spells last week were designed to help prevent shiitake mushrooms from hitting the fan. But it's nice to know that if players do start dropping, your leaders have some options available. Everyone likes to have an ace up their sleeve.
There are good times and there are bad times to using combat revive spells. It's difficult to list every possible situation and even then, it's a matter of subjectivity among your raid leaders. I'll list a few things to consider when you decide to whip out Rebirth.
Use it only if you have to. The thing with these two cooldowns is that they have a long recharge timer. Personally, I don't like using them on the first few attempts of a boss that we're learning. I'd rather have a player stay down but remain observing the various aspects of the encounter. Using Rebirth on a phase 1 of some boss before we have any idea of what phases 2, 3 and 4 look like doesn't seem like a rational idea to me. Once the raid group has experienced all parts of the fight, that's when a Rebirth is considered and handed out. When going for the kill, your raid leaders might wish to stave off a Rebirth until later on in the fight (for example, during a phase 3 instead of a phase 1). Reasoning behind that is to wait and see if the raid can hold it together that long before bringing in the reinforcements. If the raid's going to buckle and collapse, then holding the Rebirth is a smart idea.
Consider raid needs. So your raid has some dead players. What's the res priority? Assess the situation first. If it's an endurance type fight and you're short healers, it might be wise to pick them up to reduce stress. If there's an enrage timer involved, snap up a DPS as their damage is going to be necessary to help speed up the process. On any tank sensitive fights, they become the priority. Kologarn is a good example of this. Let's assume one of the tanks get taken out. One tank can hold the line for some time, but unless the second tank is picked up, the raid will become overrun.
Always pickup Druids first (unless their Rebirth is on cooldown). The rationale behind this is that you can set up chain Rebirths among Druids in your raid. Druid 1 picks up Druid 2 who picks up Druid 3 before picking up that Mage, for example. It's a no-brainer, really. But just make sure the Druids that are being revived still have Rebirth's available otherwise you will wish to rethink who to cast on.
Timing matters. This is one of my biggest pet peeves. It has nothing to do with the Druids per se. When a player receives a Rebirth, they receive a pop-up box saying that they've been revived (Specifically, it's something like "Come back to life: Accept or Deny"). Hitting accept spawns the player at the point where the Druid was when they pulled off the spell. Now what really annoys me is when the player accepts the revive and then gets smacked down moments later by an AoE or some other spell. I understand the element of the random number generator. As in, random events can happen. But not everything is random. Boss abilities and cooldowns can be predicted. Going back to the previous Kologarn example, wait for his Left Arm to sweep and damage the raid before popping back up. Wait for Kologarn's eyebeam to lance out and target another player. Having the patience to wait and recognize when to activate the revive is something that some players need to work on.
Buff and heal them fast. Although not really a factor, it's still something which has to be done. When players get a Rebirth, they're going to be extremely weak. Heal them up as quick as possible before slapping them with whatever quick 30 minute buffs you can. I'd say the priority buffs are Power Word: Fortitude and Blessing of Kings.
There are a couple of addons that help keep track of certain cooldowns. Note that these only track cooldowns that are relevant to the entire raid. I doubt there is a huge amount of interest from people who want to know when my Penance is ready to go (About 7 seconds, for those that do want to know).

oRA2: The staple addon of raid leaders everywhere, oRA2 has a lot more functions than simple cooldown tracking. But for our purposes, that's all we're going to worry about. Last time I checked, Reincarnate didn't show up in the combat log. This means that Shamans have to have oRA2 set up and ready to go in order to transmit to the raid leader that they're back up.
RaidCooldowns: I just picked up this addon recently and haven't been able to conduct a full field test of it on my own just yet. It doesn't quite track a player's individual cooldowns (as an example, it won't track a Mage's mirror image). It goes after cooldowns that are relevant to the entire raid. For example, it'll track Rebirth, Innervate, and Divine Hymn among others. Certain abilities and spells can be hidden based on your preference.
Want some more advice for working with the healers in your guild? Raid Rx has you covered with all there is to know! Looking for less healer-centric raiding advice? Take a look at our raiding column Ready Check.Filed under: Druid, Shaman, Analysis / Opinion, Tips, Raid Rx (Raid Healing)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Thrid May 17th 2009 7:48PM
o.o Grats on Second...?
Chris M May 17th 2009 7:58PM
A decent 'Raid Rx', Matt. I'd like to point out as a fellow healing leader/cat herder - DBM's SpellTimers (http://www.deadlybossmods.com/download.php?id=4) addon is exceptional for tracking all manner of spells used during the raid. It works in tandem with oRA2, so I have them both running. It notifies the user on Shield Walls, Icebound Fortitudes, Tricks of the Trade, Rebirth, Heroism/Lust and the lesser important (Portals... yeah really just portals).
Stellar addon. And I appreciate this week's Raid Rx being somewhat well thought-out. Cheers.
Plan May 17th 2009 8:29PM
In the hundreds of raids I've been in, I have never once had a Paladin rebuff me after using an Ankh or getting a battle rez. Never.
Usually, I have to ask five or six times before I can even get Paladin buffs BEFORE a boss fight, especially Might. Apparently it's a big deal to put a BoM on one Shaman and Wisdom on the rest, as if hitting one button every 30 minutes is tiring. I wonder how Paladins would feel if they had to drop two or three totems on every pull, or several times during one pull or bossfight that's highly mobile.
Gryph667 May 17th 2009 8:44PM
First, make sure your pallies are using Pally Power. Second, make them learn how to use it effectively.
Third falls on you. Holy pallies, especially in Uld, ration every single gcd. If buffing you means someone dies, you lose. They don't have hots to buy time.
Ret pallies also can't really spare gcds for the most part mid fight, as some damage spell is coming up after every button push. During phase shifts are the best time to ask them for a rebuff. Again, leave the holys alone, they're stingy with mana.
Prot pallys are tanking the boss. Trust me, the raid leader wants them tanking and having taunt ready, not buffing you.
All of this aside, if they have time, they can mouseover pally power, bring up your frame and right click it; but don't be bitter if it doesn't happen.
Kvothe May 17th 2009 9:06PM
We cannot put Greater Might on you and Greater Wisdom on all the other Shaman. We'd need to put Lesser Might on you to prevent overwriting the other Shaman's Wisdom, and even then your buff would only be 10 minutes long, requiring further refreshments at odd intervals compared to the Wisdom...
In addition, the person assigned to putting Wisdom on the Shaman may not have improved Might, meaning that they may actually put Might on you only to have it overwritten by a Battleshout or something.
We try to get it right all the time. Really, we do. We want everyone having every buff just as much as you do. However, you can't always expect us to be 100% on top of it every time.
DragonFireKai May 17th 2009 9:11PM
Ummmmm... Paladin greater blessings work on a class by class basis. If you put Greater Blessing of Wisdom on the shamans, then you put Greater Blessing of Might on the one enhance shaman, then all the shamans lose Wisdom, and gain Might. You have to put up with the lesser blessing of might, which only lasts ten minutes. If you're only running with 1 paladin in your raids, you'll need to mention your preference for a 10 minute blessing. And getting reblessed mid boss fight? If the only paladin you're running with is a holy or protection paladin, they're probably gonna be too busy to rebuff one person midfight on demand. You'll have to wait for a natural break in the fight.
Basically, what you're asking is akin to having a Ret Paladin asking you to Windfury, and a prot pally complaining that you're too lazy to drop a nature resist totem.
Millers May 17th 2009 11:11PM
Apart from the actually useful comments above, it should also be mentioned that any player asking in whispers or raidchat for "Mait Pl0x" will get a mental ignore and be intentionally gimped by the paladins through the raid by not giving proper short blessings.
Iwanttobeasleep May 18th 2009 12:35AM
Remember minor blessings--the ones that cost less mana and won't overwrite other blessings--only have a 30 yard range. If you're not in that and I don't have time or mana to spare, sorry, you're out of luck for a rebuff.
Iwanttobeasleep May 18th 2009 12:37AM
And it sounds like you're running with bad paladins, anyway. PallyPower can manage all of that easily, at least out of combat. If your paladins don't know about PP though, I could totally understand why they'd be annoyed by your demands. Buffing 9 classes with specific buffs for each can be a hassle without addons.
Angus May 18th 2009 9:01AM
There's no reason Shaman should be getting wisdom anyway.
What, mana spring on cooldown?
They don't stack and you can provide your own version, so give you kings and might.
Heck, I've seen sanctuary on shaman in a 25 man. The tankadin was bored and the 3% actually ended up saving a few people...
Boydboyd May 18th 2009 9:41AM
Nub. Lrn2Paladin.
The posters above me have given you all the pertinent information.
I would recommend not only you follow through and learn about your plate-wearing, heal-casting, AoE-tanking, Ret-loling buddies as much as you can, but that you should join the crowd.
Roll Paladin!
Cataca May 18th 2009 10:02AM
@Angus
When to use mana spring totem
BoW is generally a better buff than mana spring totem. BoW doesn't have range problems, and if the paladin dies during the encounter, your raid is still buffed.
Given that, it's still situational depending on how many paladins you have.
1 PALADIN RAID
Paladin uses BoK on shamans
Shamans use mana spring
2 PALADIN RAID
Paladin 1 uses BoK on shamans
Paladin 2 uses BoW on shamans
Shamans use healing stream
There is also the consideration of a holy paladin or resto shaman having Imp. BoW and Imp. Mana Spring. If you only have the one Imp. version, make sure that the person with the improved version is buffing no matter your group composition.
Shamans, also beware that until the next patch. Mana Spring Totem will remove and overwrite BoW.
And if one more person asks for BoW when I don't have the improved version but the shaman has Imp. Mana Spring...I fear that my desk may break from all the head slams.
Plan May 18th 2009 7:25PM
Please, oh please, try and tell me again that a Ret Paladin can't spare one CGD but an Enhancement Shaman can spare a GCD when you're pushing three or four buttons and I'm re-dropping Magma every 20 seconds, SoE and WF every couple seconds on a mobile fight, ES every 6 seconds, SS every 8, LL every 6, LB/CS Maelstrom according to procs (every few seconds), LS refresh, SR when needed and other situational abilities like Cleanse Poison/Disease, Cleansing Totem, off-heals, etc.
Let's look at mobile fights like Sarth 3D, Grobbulus or Malygos -- I'm dropping totems every few seconds, at the expense of my own DPS and my own GCDs, so that the rest of the raid can have buffs. Why? I'm a good raider.
And don't assume I'm running in a one-paladin raid and asking for buffs like a 14-year-old sending text messages. I'm talking about raids with four or five paladins, and I'm unfailingly polite when I ask for buffs, yet still I often have to ask repeatedly and hold up the raid until one of the Paladins exerts the massive effort of pressing one button. I am familiar with Pally Power and I have a Paladin alt, so I know the mechanics of the class.
I recently ran a pug raid where there were six Paladins and I didn't get Might for the entire run. Why? They were lazy, and the Ret (who enjoyed spamming the damage meters) saw it as an opportunity to try to pull within range of others on the meters if he had Might and the other melee didn't.
The fact is, for whatever reason, the majority of Paladin players can't be bothered to buff other people or set up Pally Power. The exception is when they're the Paladins in your guild, and if they don't buff there are consequences. Other than that, good luck trying to get buffs.
a.pally May 17th 2009 8:42PM
if I could I would!
ZOMGbuffs is adamant that all shaman need wis.
It abuses me. Please call SS
chadwick May 17th 2009 9:30PM
Or the pally can give all the shamans might and 1 shammy can put down mana spring totem.
Problem solved!
Iwanttobeasleep May 18th 2009 12:32AM
Mana spring totem is dependent on the shammy being alive, BoW isn't, so we typically prefer to use that. Healing stream is pretty nice to have up, anyway.
SDevil May 18th 2009 2:26AM
My resto druid is glyphed to pop the person back up at full health. I find that really helps in the middle of a fight, no having to worry about wasting extra mana to heal them and if they pop in the middle of an aoe effect, they are more likely to survive it.
Marveen May 18th 2009 4:49AM
I also have the glyph of rebirth, it helps bring a tank back up to full (plus you haven't lived until you've seen a ressed gnome warrior charge in the second he's up).
Our group uses Ventrilo to raid, so I always announce the status my Rebirth when someone dies. If the ability is ready I give an ETA of when I'll use it ("will comres in P3" on Mimiron for example). If it's on cooldown, I just say "5 minutes cooldown on comres", that tells the dks they can use their Raise Ally ability.
About who to use it on, I always use it if it's cool when the first person dies - I believe in learning by doing, and even if it's a wipe it gives the ressurrected an extra minute's practice which counts for a lot more than just watching from the ground. Plus 20 minutes cooldown isn't that long - that's 2-3 tries and it's up again. If more than one player dies, I tend to prioritise the ace players (the ones who will wait to accept until after the AoE). Oh, and always wait a second or two to see if the shaman has resurrected themselves before "wasting" it on them.. :)
On some fights you really have to gamble - resurrecting someone on Thaddius requires a lot of trust that the person won't charge in and get zapped the second they res.
Looking forward to the coming Innervate changes so I can get the mages back with life AND mana!
Bottomline: use the ability early on bossfights, don't save it for later!
Manoos May 18th 2009 9:14AM
No offense, but the choice between glyphing for a spell I may cast only every 20 minutes (however useful it may be in specific situations) or glyphing for a spell I cast tens of times during a single boss fight seems clear to me, considering I can only have three major glyphs.
DragonFireKai May 18th 2009 2:43AM
Totems are limited both by range, and the life of the shaman. Flimsy mail wearer dies and totem goes away, totem goes away, buff goes away. Blessing of wisdom only requires you to be in range of the paladin for a few brief seconds, then you've got that MP5 until you die or the buff wears off, regardless of whatever suicidal tendencies the Paladin has. Also, come the next patch, Blessing of Wisdom will overwrite Mana Spring, and provide slightly better Mana Regen.