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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsFrom our readers: Guild Retention
by Amanda Dean 
May 27th 2009 at 9:00AM
We get lots of email from our readers trying to find their way though WoW. I'd like to take a moment to answer a question about membership retention. This also builds on a previous response regarding the trials and tribulations of starting a guild.Hi I been reading your posts and listening to the podcast and you recently made a new guild. I have a guild with around 140 members and we do some raiding weekly but every time I log off, it seems that people start arguing, and drama just starts building up. I went away for a couple days and when I come back from my vacation, Alot of people have left the guild. Maybe 10-15 people. Now they are stealing my members and have made a new guild. Do you have tips on member retaining and stuff like that, would be cool if you can do a post on that kind of stuff and how you work that out, thanks
Hello reader,
Thank you for the email. One of the hardest things I've noticed about a guild is dealing with a certain amount of churn. Acceptance is the first step. People leave for all kinds of reasons. There will be those that come and go. The stronger you make your core, the stronger you make your guild.
That being said, there are some things that you can do to help reduce churn:
- Create an environment where people want to be. Encourage members to run dungeons together and get to know each other and their abilities. You'll find that people are more likely to stick it out in a place that feels like home. In my guild I tend to call people by first name, and know just a little bit about them. (Though it's perfectly acceptable when people don't want to share that information.) As an extra bonus this makes it easier to keep track of alts.
- Similarly, be selective in who you invite. There are a lot of guild hoppers out there, so if you invite one, don't be surprised when they take off. Remember that if you invite folks as a group, they will likely leave as a group if one or some of them become disenchanted.
- Make sure that the folks you invite have similar tolerances. A guild can quickly seem hostile when personalities don't mesh. If you know that someone is drama waiting to happen, it's best to avoid inviting them in the first place.
- Be consistent. You said that you're doing some raiding, but do players know when to show up for raids. Use your raid calendar. Let everyone know what your expectations are. If they show up late without a valid reason, PUG out their spot and let them come in if someone drops.
- Make sure you are fair. Anything from dispensing loot to giving praise. Don't play favorites with your friends. Remember all of your members are important to your success. Whatever rules you establish for your guild, enforce them equally among your members.
- Set a good example for your guildies. Don't arrive late for guild events. Be respectful and successful on your own. You don't have to be an expert on every class, but make sure you can prove that you are competent. People will come to you for advice and suggestions, but will likely also do what they see you doing. (Yup, I'm off Polishing the Helm again.)
- Don't give up at the first sign of trouble. Sometimes you will have to rebuild from obstacles. No matter how frustrated and angry you get, try to avoid burning bridges. Remember you're all still on the same server, and will likely run into each other again. Sometimes guildies come back, sometimes they don't- but either way you're better off without hard feelings.
In many ways, running a guild is like running a business. I use many of the same techniques when leading my guild that I do when managing employees. Take a gander at some management books and websites. I'm a firm believer in "The One Minute Manager." Praise for a minute; correct for a minute; praise for a minute; let it go.
The guild leader has a ton of responsibility. It's fine to take a day or a week off, but give your guild members as much notice as you can. Make suggestions for what they should work on while you're gone. I raid when I'm off on business trips (which has included sitting on the hotel room floor to get a decent wireless signal), but don't feel like you have to. A good, strong guild will survive a few days without you.
You'll find that some things get harder, and others get easier. I think of myself more as a benign monarch than a dictator (though some of my guildies seem to disagree.) Once you've gotten through those agonizing, rocky first steps in creating the guild, just hang in there. With the number of guildies you have, it sounds like you may be on the verge of breaking through. If you've got the time and patience raising a guild can be an incredibly rewarding experience.
For love, for honor, for pony,
mandy
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Tips, How-tos, Guilds, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Soul May 27th 2009 12:59PM
I'm only an officer in a casual guild so the raid thing isn't such an issue for us ,though we do try it from time to time.
For myself at least I think the most important things are clarity of what we expect from guildies,respect for each other and being totally fair on loot rolls.If any of those are majorly flawed then in my experience the guild ain't gonna survive for too long.Alongside that I'd say it's very important for the guildies to discuss any issues they have with the officers if they are unable to resolve them by talking with one another..no point in letting discontent fester even in a casual guild(else it'll blow up into some daft huge drama that could most likely have been avoided with prompt action).
We do have rules in the guild but ppl are directed to them as soon as they choose to join and are welcome to leave if they feel they are too draconian,which in my opinion they aren't as not being abusive to guildies or trying to steal from the guildbank aren't really anything to ask from worthy guild member material.
I acknowledge that in raiding the loot systems can be somewhat more complex but I still think my view on guilds,and how the members should treat each other, has some validity.
Soul
Gimmlette May 27th 2009 1:26PM
To the OP, I guess I need to know what kind of screening process you had in place when these people first joined your guild. I don't believe any screening process can completely weed out drama or the guild hopper, but it can make some of those types think twice about joining a guild where they have to fill out an application and have an interview with an officer. We require people to go to the web site and read our Code of Conduct and then have an interview with an officer. Officers are supposed to find out why someone wants to join us, what goals they might have, can they work with our raiding schedule. The more you casually talk to someone, the more you can see if they will or won't work with the guild.
Now that doesn't cover the usually stable guild member who leaves in a fit of pique or the person who is well liked but wants the excitement of the next step up in raiding. But, as was pointed out, you can't take people's leaving personally. It helps to have a couple people in the officer corps to whom you can vent your frustrations. If the person who leaves for greener pastures is well-liked, people will be sad to see him go and will be looking to you for the next direction.
You mentioned drama when you're not on. Can you pinpoint the source of the drama? Does it seem to swirl around one person or group of people? Is it loot related? You should be chasing down the dramatics, finding out who said what/did what, interviewing the participants. Yes, it's a lot of work on your part, but, having been through a small spat of drama in my guild, all that work I did to talk to the people involved paid off dividends when I could go to the drama producer and say, "You said this and this and this".
I'd see this as an opportunity to bring in the kind of people you want, the kind who will ascribe to your guild's philosophy. You do have one, right? If not, that could be part of the problem. Who are you and what are you trying to do within the WOW universe?
Good luck. This is the time when there is turnover in guilds as people expand their horizons from winter's cold to summer's warmth. Things look better in other guilds. You need an effective description of who you are to sell to potential new members and to remind current members, "This is who we are."
Scritch May 27th 2009 1:59PM
I'm a GM of an uncensored, mature rated guild on The Scryers-US server. We're just about ready to turn 1 year old, and birthing a successful guild is no easy task.
We aren't a raiding guild, and I think that's where you see the most churn. People swear up and down they don't want to be in a hardcore raiding guild etc, but they get bit by the loot whore bug and BLAM! they're suddenly /gquit for a raiding guild (most of the time in the middle of the night).
To avoid people using the guild as a stepping stone to a raiding guild, we established a new guild rule: you must reach 'demented' status (veteran) before you're allowed to raid with the guild. Now that's not all that difficult to do, but the way we handle guild promotions is a bit different than most guilds. I never promote anyone based on their time logged within the guild. It's mostly based on how helpful/selfless and interactive they are with the guild. One of our mottos is "the more you put into the guild, the more the guild has to offer you".
So, if I get compliments about a person (both from guildies and non-guildies), if I see them helping people for no reason other than to help, if I see them playing an active role in the guild and trying to get to know everyone...
All of those things are good attributes. In most situations, new members reach demented status within a month or so (but it does all depend). This allows us to weed out the loot whores and guild hoppers and those that would just use our guild for gearing up before bailing...because let's face it, loot whores want loot FAST...if they have to earn the right to join us in raids, they'll simply move on to another guild.
I also highly recommend that you create an official guild website (guildportal.com/wowstead.com) and make sure whoever's making it knows just wtf they're doing so your guild looks intelligent.
Create a recruitment forum. Create an application process for new members. If you'd like an example, you can take a look at Infinite Asylum's Recruitment Forums by visiting http://infiniteasylum.guildportal.com . This is probably the fastest way to find out if a potential member is the type of player you're looking for. (it also serves as some records..in case you 42yo professional turns out to be a 13yo raving emo).
Don't grow too fast.
Don't change the guild's ideals to appeal to more types of players. Either you're looking to be a raiding guild, a casual guild, an rp guild, a social guild...etc. Don't change it after a few months to get more interest...you'll lose established members if you change their environment.
There's going to be drama, there's going to be times where being the leader, and being the bad guy......SUCK. But if you can't handle doing that....you shouldn't be attempting to make a guild.
Also, a guild is only as successful as the time you put into it. Now that's not saying "you got to play wow constantly" ...but if you aren't totally devoted to making your guild succeed and become something amazing...it won't happen.
Lead by example, but the most important thing to remember no matter what type of guild you're running:
GAMES ARE FOR FUN...FUN is why you should be playing. Take a breath, and laugh. If you're not having fun, why play?
Scritch-Infinite Asylum-The Scryers-US
Cailleach May 27th 2009 2:17PM
@ Netherscourge: You do have to strengthen your core - but you do that by being very careful about new members, not by passing them over. We had about a dozen new members in the last few months, and of them, three are new officers. Why? Because we try hard to include new folks and encourage them to take as much leadership and responsibility as they want. Our three new officers stepped it up and earned their promotion, acting as officers before they ever had the rank.
I agree, the 'strengthen your core' concept can be executed poorly, but ideally that means expanding your core, making it sturdier, not smaller and better geared.
Lanore May 27th 2009 3:25PM
Good article.
I started a guild 4 years ago and it's still running today. We have kept our theme as "Casual Raiding Guild" throughout and we have a core set of members that have been with us 3+ years. I am no longer the GM, but still an officer. I changed jobs and had to step down since i was traveling alot during TBC years.
Some thoughts to add that have worked for us.
1. Make sure the people you recruit share your guilds ideal of the game. (don't recruit a PvP maniac if you are a raiding guild). No problems with the player there, they just won't fit in.
2. Get some competent officers and raid leaders to help you. People you trust to squelch the drama when you aren't online and who have the authority to deal with it. (You can't be online 100% of the time and additionally, you dont' want to spend your whole WoW life dealing with drama yourself)
3. And last, if someone is the center of drama more than once in a week, /gkick them. It may seem harsh, but you'll be happy you did. You don't have time as GM to deal with problems continually. Spend your time raiding/BGing or whatever. Not listening to QQs. Better now than when you've spent months getting them epic only to have them /gquit on you.
Marita May 27th 2009 3:51PM
Lanore's last comment sounds harsh, but I agree
drama people will eventually leave, or make others leave because of them
don't keep them, but don't be unfair
it's easy to make mistakes when decisions are made fast, but taking too long to decide can make things worse
the point is: don't be afraid to /gquit people that doesn't fit in the guild, because keeping them is worst for the community than making a drastic decision.
It's not necessary for drama to happen to know someone is a drama queen, or a ninja.
good luck with it
Biggie May 27th 2009 6:18PM
I agree wholeheartedly with the notion that the skills of guild leadership mirror the experience of managing a professional work or sports team. I've actually found guild leadership a really good way to refine and improve my professional management skills outside of the game. Same basic challenges with recruiting, retaining, and organizing the day to day activities apply to MMO guilds.
I've noticed that a lot of sharp technical players are not particularly good at managing a guild or raid but often get stuck in guild leadership positions they fill out of necessity. Their dislike for the "HR" side of managing a raid guild (recruiting, retention, loot distribution, scheduling, dealing with poor performers) can create resentment toward newer players or other raiders and thus drama begins.
The Claw May 27th 2009 5:46PM
The fact that you "recently made a new guild" and now have "around 140 members" is pretty clear evidence that you've offered a random ginvite to anyone who asks for it.
If you look for members on the Trade channel, and invite anyone who replies.. you'll get the sort of membership that (a) hangs out on the Trade channel, and (b) isn't already a member of a stable and successful guild.
What sort of people do you expect that will be? Answer: idiots, drama fiends, children and assholes. No wonder you're guild has loads of drama and massive churn.
pongo_3931 May 27th 2009 9:00PM
Consistent leadership is where it's at.
Ensure your officers know exactly where the guild is heading and that you're all on the same page. When someone (and someone will) starts making trouble, pushing their own agenda, whining about something, tow the party line. Ergo you treat everyone fairly and consistently with no surprises. Make you rules and expectations known.
The people who leave will be guild hoppers and drama queens, rendering attrition a good thing as opposed to a thorn in your side.
A few final words... expect and encourage change, don't be so set in your rules that the guild outgrows you. Be prepared to shuffle officer structures and always consider that you yourself may at one point need to step down from your position for the greater good of the guild.
Also, get guild infrastructure before it's needed, so if you're small get 10 man vent any way, get a website early and so on, increase vent size before it's needed. When growth hits, you don't want to be so busy producing these bits and pieces that you miss out on actually getting involved with the guild.