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5-27-2009 @ 1:29PM
I find it interesting that you basically condemn Varian for things that any logical person would think as well.Varian didn't just go "RAWR WE FIGHT KILL HORDE GO!" He's tried on at least two separate occasions to meet with Thrall and discuss peace. The first time he's kidnapped by the Defias and the Black Dragonflight (Which isn't the Horde's fault...just stating that for those who didn't know) and then is forced to fight in Gladiatorial combat.The second time he shows up and Garona and her Twilight thugs crash the party. Garona - the same person who assassinated Varian's father. Mind controlled, coerced, whatever, would you think any differently? It's quite easy to play backseat quarterback and condemn Varian's mindset, however it's really quite foolish since most of it is logical.Continuing off of the "RAWR WE FIGHT KILL HORDE GO!" That is NOT how the conflict in Northrend began. Bolvar is killed by Putress' coup at the Wrathgate. Putress...a fellow forsaken like Sylvanas, who are in the Horde. It might not be fair to say "Well since you did this, your organization should be punished" but you have to lay SOME blame with Thrall. He's allowed Sylvanas, the Royal Apothecary Society, and the Forsaken to run around willy-nilly doing whatever the hell they want, including capturing, testing, and torturing Humans, all of which Varian sees when he confronts Putress in Undercity.But...the Wrathgate has been argued too much...let's move on to ANOTHER example of the Horde striking the Alliance first - The Broken Front. Just because no one in the Horde takes responsibility for the action, that doesn't mean it didn't happen. And it's fairly clear none of the Horde are sad that they basically screwed over both the Horde and Alliance's only chance of gaining a ground foothold in Icecrown.And then there's the meeting with Rhonin and Jaina. Am I the only one who is finding it funny that the Horde are always the ones who light the fire, then complain when they get burned? Garrosh basically says "Bring it you ass!" and you're all surprised that Varian attacks him?!The Orcs were responsible for King Llane (Varian's father)'s death, they were responsible for Anduin Lothar (His basically 2nd father)'s death, Stormwind (Varian's HOME) was destroyed by the Orcs, he's forced into gladiator combat (Just like Thrall yes - however all of the OTHER examples of why Varian might be prejudiced against the Horde have not happened to Thrall against the Alliance), and yet despite ALL of this and the stuff I've not mentioned, he STILL AGREES TO MEET WITH THRALL FOR PEACE!What the hell are you talking about? Varian has shown to be a capable leader...The ONE AND ONLY thing I will let you have on him is that his reaction after Garrosh taunts him is his response at the end: "Let this Death God take you all..." Or whatever. That might have been a little far, yes. But that is it.Viewing things from one side and is fail.
5-27-2009 @ 2:01PM
I think you may have missed the point. The point of the article is that Wynn is not suited to the role he has either chosen or been thrust into.He is has bad feelings toward the Horde. So what? His personal feeling are irrelevant to what is best for his people.Both Wynn and Hellscream are ill suited to be leaders of a peaceful and successful people. Both will lead their people into war, just for the sake of war.Who did what to whom in the past is irrelevant to building your future. Our IRL politicians need to remember that.
5-27-2009 @ 2:18PM
"The Orcs were responsible for King Llane (Varian's father)'s death, they were responsible for Anduin Lothar (His basically 2nd father)'s death, Stormwind (Varian's HOME) was destroyed by the Orcs, he's forced into gladiator combat (Just like Thrall yes - however all of the OTHER examples of why Varian might be prejudiced against the Horde have not happened to Thrall against the Alliance), and yet despite ALL of this and the stuff I've not mentioned, he STILL AGREES TO MEET WITH THRALL FOR PEACE!"Blackmoore found Thrall with the boides of his murdered parents. Care to take a guess who murdered them? (Hint: Alliance) During his childhood he was educated so he could be a better arena fighter in the HUMAN arena matches pitting Orc against Orc for their amusement. The only human to show him kindness was Taretha Foxton. She helped him escape. When he went to liberate the orcs at the internment camps (aka: concentration camps) Blackmoore's response to a call for peaceful surrender was to throw her head at Thrall's feet. Confronting Blackmoore he was asked to help subjugate the Alliance to Blackmoore and his response was to kill the man. The battle won, he gave the survivors a message to allow the new Horde to live in peace and they would respond with peace as well and then after the humans escaped he razed the internment camp to the ground. So, having your parents slaughtered by humans and the one human you love that shows kindness to you killed and her head thrown at you is not about equal to Varien's loss?The fact that his homeworld was shattered by the Legion because the Orcs offered shelter and aid to the Draenei and the Legion would have none of it, so they corrupted the Orcs and used them as a weapon against the Draenei is kind of important. After all, they would have been happily living in Nagrand only fighting Ogres had a member of the Alliance not shown up. But the Orcs blame themselves for that weakness, as they should. They don't go telling everyone the Dreanei are a blight and a bunch of demons. They don't get mad because they were betrayed by their own and handed over to the enemy to be sent to kill or be killed. Varien does though. His own screw up got him kidnapped. And he blames the Orcs. They are convenient. Instead of thinking "If I had done what was right when it came to the Defias, I would never have been in that arena." he thinks "ORCS BAD!!!"Yep, he agreed to meet with Thrall for peace. Thrall went looking for peace when he could have just marshaled the forces needed to raze Stormwind after Jaina's father attacked the first time. He could have let the Alliance eat all the casualties against the Liche King and just sacked it while the 7th Legion was away. He could have done a lot of things to destroy the Alliance or at least the humans. But he hasn't. He went looking for peace.About the only bad thing Thrall has really done is allow Garrosh to walk around without an Earth Elemental holding his mouth shut. Personally I think he should just get it over with, offer to duel Garrosh again and this time call elementals and state "The spirits obey me, not a hothead. I was with your father when he died. I'll be with you when you do, right now." I'd love to see an earth elemental pound Garrosh flat.
5-27-2009 @ 2:19PM
I think you are missing the point. This is the World of WARcraft. We can't have peace among the Alliance and Horde, it defeats the whole purpose. While you think it might be the 'nice thing to do' and have leaders that will be at peace with each other, Blizzard knows that the true draw of the game lies with contention between the factions. Ever since the first Warcraft, it has been humans vs orcs. Putting Wrynn in place is the card that Blizzard now has in place to at any time turn the hand-holding peace treaty that exists in Shattrath and Dalaran on its head. They can now at any time turn the factions back on one another as it should be, and what creates the tension that is the basis of the game. Sure, Wrynn is not the leader that a civilized society would want, but thats not the point, we wouldn't be playing this game if it was about peace, love and understanding. Therefore I think he is the perfect leader for the Alliance, and when the time comes (probably after the Lich King falls), it will be time to play the wild card and force the factions back into war.I for one embrace Wrynn's existence and the promise of bringing back some ass-kicking horde vs alliance action.
5-27-2009 @ 2:43PM
@Angus That's completely wrong.1> Thall's parents were killed by ORCS not humans2> Orcs never gave aid and shelter to the Draenei.3> Taretha who helped Thrall was a human. No orc ever helped Varian.4> Thrall never had the military strength to raze Stormwind.5> Thrall does not only "allow Garrosh to walk around without an Earth Elemental holding his mouth shut". He promoted him to the highest Horde military position in Northrend.
5-27-2009 @ 2:58PM
I agree and disagree. Yes he is capable but I think he has kinda lost his mind. He tried to speak with the horde and insert bad stuff. Right now he is looking like a "GO FIGHT KILL" kinda guy. Do you blame him? I don't know how much he is talking with the other leaders. To me it looks like he isn't. He may not be ready for this leadership after all the mess he has been in. His head is not on right. He may not feel he can trust anyone. What are we the hero's of Northrend to understand what the King of Stromwind is talking with the leaders about? We just go fight win.
5-27-2009 @ 3:18PM
IvanZephyr, I don't actually disagree with you. Whether Varian is justified in feeling the way he does isn't really the focus of the article, although patently he does. What I'll cover in a future article is that these feelings are *justified*, but they are not always accurate sentiments concerning the New Horde -- and that's where the Horde's side of the story goes in.In this article I was mostly just interested in looking at whether Varian's feelings are negatively influencing his ability to lead the Alliance war efforts -- and whether he's abusing the power of the that position -- and it's my contention that both are true.
5-27-2009 @ 3:28PM
@Angus"Blackmoore found Thrall with the boides of his murdered parents. Care to take a guess who murdered them? (Hint: Alliance)"Actually, his parents were killed by Orcs sent by the Shadow Council.Quoted from WowWiki"Doomhammer had, by this time, assassinated Blackhand and become the Warchief of the Horde, and welcomed Durotan and Draka into his encampment. Durotan explained what he knew - about Gul'dan, the Shadow Council, the demonic bargain. Doomhammer vowed that he would stand at Durotan's side as they confronted Gul'dan with his crimes, but - for the good of his warriors and Durotan as well - he had to send them away to what he thought was a safe place. It was found out later that several of Doomhammer's warriors had been Gul'dan's spies...and one of them had accompanied Durotan and Draka to their "safe haven".The treacherous guard had summoned assassins to kill the Frostwolf chieftain and his mate. Though he managed to kill at least one of them, Durotan was too severely wounded to continue. His arms sliced off to prevent him from holding his child again, Durotan died slowly as the lifeblood drained out of him, the last thought in his mind being a sense of relief that he would not see his son torn apart by the creatures of the forest. "
5-27-2009 @ 7:11PM
I love how the Alliance apologists keeping throwing Putress' coup in Thrall's face, while ignoring the fact that Wrynn had his own seditious faction operating at the highest levels of the Alliance (hello, Onxyia) and that the Defias is still maintaining a strong presence within a stone's throw of Stormwind itself. Get back to me about the mote in Thrall's eye when Varian removes the beam from his own.
5-27-2009 @ 9:08PM
@ Angus: Durotan and Draka were killed by the Shadow Council, not Alliance. And the phrase "concentration camps" has implications that don't apply.@ Yeng: The Alliance/Horde conflict is a false dichotomy that is artificially maintained even in the face of greater threats. Varian is just another attempt to keep it maintained...and a badly written one at that. He does not come off as a king who's fit to rule, but as petulant and vengeful, especially seeing as those greater threats exist.And maybe you're right that the Horde and the Alliance proper can't officially bury the hatchet because, as you put it, "this is the World of WARcraft." Nonetheless, players who are tired of the false dichotomy should be able to abandon it and officially join the Argent Dawn or some similarly neutral group.
5-28-2009 @ 1:53PM
@FarseerLolotea - no idea if you will see this but I hope you do: AMEN!! Who do we petition at Blizz to make this 3rd faction thing happen? It wouldn't ruin the game. There are more than enough pvp nerds and conflict lovers out there to keep the blood flowing but honestly this false dichotomy is making me so frustrated I'm thinking of leaving the game. In ALL the lore material there is faction overlap and characters can make choices to do the RIGHT thing in a sitution despide alliances, why can't we? Bring on the Argent thing or even a Cenurian Circle faction.
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