Breakfast Topic: What sides have you picked?
by Matthew Rossi 
May 28th 2009 at 8:00AM
However, I've always been less a factional player (I have and love Horde and Alliance toons pretty equally, and I think both sides of the Horde/Alliance enmity have good and bad points) and more of a class partisan. I pretty much love shamans and warriors and don't really like playing other classes. I'll defend my chosen classes, gush about them, rant about what I think needs fixing, and play those classes to the exclusion of others even when I know that objectively those other classes might well be just as much fun. I just can't bring myself to support other classes, play them, or even in my heart embrace them as fully as shamans and warriors. I'm not pretending my behavior is anything more than the strange mental quirk of a particular player, but it got me wondering: what other strange divisions are out there in active play? My lovely wife, for example, won't tame a pet unless it has a unique skin or is harder than normal to get. She just loves the challenge.
Do you find youself making a choice, whether it be Horde vs. Alliance, a specific class, a race, a profession, or a style of play that draws a solid line of demarcation for you in game? Roleplayers vs. non-Roleplayers? Will you only raid 10 man? Are you a partisan for PvP and barely even bother with instances? What do you cleave to in WoW, and what do you reject?
Filed under: Hunter, Shaman, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 8)
GormanGhaste May 28th 2009 8:09AM
I prefer the Cenarion Circle faction.
Croe May 28th 2009 5:23PM
Four legs good. Two legs Bad.
Oh wait, that's Animal Farm.
Axolotl May 28th 2009 8:09AM
I try to have characters of every class within the Horde, and I tend not to play with Alliance
(except for that deathknight who's still on a mission to kill some poor sap that's chained to the wall)
Everything about this game is about choices, I once started on Alliance only to find more appeal in the Horde and the way it works together.
Pronto May 28th 2009 8:11AM
Horde, all the way!
WoWie Zowie May 28th 2009 8:19AM
alliance are the good guys
Josin May 28th 2009 8:26AM
As an Alliance player, even I think this is silly. Play WC3 sometime. Humans and dwarves come off as very much not the "good guys." They're petty, often racist, and certainly pig-headed. The elves aren't much better. They're haughty and elitist.
The Horde on the other side are like "Come along, sing the song, feel the fizz of Coo-coo Cola." (Bonus points to anyone who gets the reference without googling.) They're much more of a welcoming, all-for-one group.
Haohmaru (PSN - DimmuBurgerKing XBL - A Real Puppet ) May 28th 2009 8:33AM
Wow, blast from the past! Was it Rescue Rangers, Josin? Or Duck Tales? It was one of those late 80's Disney series, I know!
Xanthine May 28th 2009 8:39AM
It's Rescue Rangers. My fiance recently got the dvds and she has been making us watch them every so often.
Like Joshin said I have always felt that the Horde gets the raw deal with being the "bad guys". The New Horde is much more inviting and accepting. This has however lead to the inclusion of the Forsaken, who in recent times have seemed to do all they can to earn the "bad guys" label. That being said I rolled Alliance because that is what my friends had done and I got the game to keep in touch with them after they moved away.
WoWie Zowie May 28th 2009 8:55AM
ya no im not buying it i've played through too many horde quests. horde are evil. sorry.
Josin May 28th 2009 9:12AM
Which race? It varies wildly if you're basing it on Forsaken, as compared to Tauren, trolls or orcs.
WoWie Zowie May 28th 2009 9:49AM
@Xanthine
"As an Alliance player, even I think this is silly. Play WC3 sometime. Humans and dwarves come off as very much not the "good guys." They're petty, often racist, and certainly pig-headed. The elves aren't much better. They're haughty and elitist.
The Horde on the other side are like "Come along, sing the song, feel the fizz of Coo-coo Cola." (Bonus points to anyone who gets the reference without googling.) They're much more of a welcoming, all-for-one group."
telling me to play wc3 some time is poor justification for overlooking the wrongdoings of orcs and forsaken. and while we're on it, i've read the lore on wowwikki so i'm not clueless on what's been going on.
being petty and pig-headed does not mean "evil" btw, which you seem to think. evil is as evil does. and then you go on to claim that the elves are haughty and elitist, which actually you'd be referring to blood elves (horde). but allow me to argue your point for you: haughty and elitist doesn't make you evil either.
rescue rangers ftw!!
WoWie Zowie May 28th 2009 9:51AM
bah, i was directing that to Josin, not Xanthine , sry bout that xan
Kuno May 28th 2009 10:37AM
Yup! Have you read "Witcher" books? Elves usually kill Humans and fight against them - they are no better Orcs: burn and chop forests, spread trash and diseases, corrupted.... "Filthy Alliance" didn't come form the air. If we could create our own factions I would deff hang with Taurens (being NE and a Guardian of The Cenarius - title that EVERY NE have to get). We should deff kick out Trolls since their Tribe no longer obey Horde's policy to keep peace (they were invited for a fight anyway, and that is in the past). Orcs are dumb enough and can stick around with dead, well, undead creatures. Humans should put their "woook-woook" squad, help Squid people to fix their sheep and gtfo. Dwarfs are self sufficient with their professions and best capital city on a whole Azeroth. They can also help Gnomes to eventually clean that "uncleanable" city or, which is a LOT better, help then to build a Castle in The Sky - they gto enough man power to get all the ore they need and Gnomes can engineer anything they need. Imagine some Stream Punk city floating in the skies near IF (or anywhere they want it to be)??? Rocks!
Josin May 28th 2009 10:43AM
Night elves ARE haughty and elitist. They're only in the Alliance because they can't go it alone. Where you got that I meant high elves, I have no idea.
There were many times throughout the WC3 campaign where humans had a chance to make allies and potentially save not just themselves, but other races as well, and flatly chose not to work with other races. Garithos turned on Kael'thas, a potential ally, instead forcing the blood elf prince to join forces with the naga. He then took the remaining human forces of Lordaeron and ALLIED them with Sylvanas, in exchange for her promise of being allowed to rule Lordaeron. Yes, he allied with the Forsaken for a chance at power. And he was the leader of the human kingdoms at that point, so he really speaks on their behalf.
If you think being a racist and selling out your people for power aren't evil things... I've got concerns for you.
To quote a very wise man, "you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
Charneldeath May 28th 2009 12:10PM
Is it just me, or does Wowre only further prove the valid points made about the alliance and its shortcomings?
Terethall May 28th 2009 12:17PM
Josin, which alliance race has drank the blood of a demon? Was it the humans who initially invaded Draenor? Did the dwarves massacre the Draenei children in Shattrath? Who created Outland with a portal storm? Is it the night elves who chop down the forest in ashenvale, murdering dryads and leaving the wood to rot?
Did the alliance-aligned high elves capture a Naaru, a being of pure holy light, torture it, and kill it by draining its power for their own sick, twisted magical addiction? Perhaps it was the gnomish leader, Mekkatorque, who created an apothecary society to create a new plague, a society whose expressly endorsed motto is "Death to the Scourge, and death to the living." Did the gnomes oversee the murdering of innocents for the furthering of this project?
Does Velen wear the armor of Orgrim Doomhammer, leader of the Old, demonic Horde? Was Arthas the first to raise a death knight? What race was the original Lich King, Ner'zhul?
How many times have alliance races attacked innocent high elves? Cannibalized? Murdered their own gods in a sick bid for power? I can tell you when the trolls have.
Which side was first to lead the attack at the Wrathgate? Which side bragged about murdering innocent soldiers while they fought the Scourge at the Broken Front? Has Thrall showed any distaste for the gladiatorial arenas in Orgrimmar?
I realize that most of this info is simply what has already been stated in Daniel Whitcomb's thorough and enlightening article (Varian is Right), but when faced with this info, where do you get the idea that the alliance races are not the good guys, or at least the innocent victims? Remember, it was the Highborne, not the night elves in general that caused the sundering. The gladiatorial combat Thrall engaged in was not officially endorsed, and by all accounts was very limited. Arthas was corrupted by the ex-orc Ner'zhul, the Lich King, before he took up that mantle. Daelin Proudmoore was only attempting to exact revenge for the hundreds of atrocities promulgated by the orcs (who were willingly corrupted by Kil'jaeden).
The internment camps that Thrall was born into were humane: whereas the orcs savagely murdered their prisoners (and the Draenei) the humans sought to contain and keep alive the defeated orcs. Varian has attempted multiple times to reach diplomacy with the Horde. Yet Thrall and Saurfang fail to keep characters such as Garrosh under control.
A final question: If Thrall and his "New Horde" truly seek to turn over a new leaf and to make amends for their previous actions, to restore their honor, why has no emissary been sent to formally apologize to the Draenei in the Exodar? Why would Thrall, upon finding that the race of innocent light-followers-turned-Shaman (something Thrall should love) that his people brutally massacred were alive, not seek to express his people's regret for their actions? Obviously, it is because the orcs (or at least their leadership) do not feel that regret.
Saurfang has no spine. Thrall is a sham and an accomplice to a tradition that has murdered hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
P.S. Kael'Thas was not FORCED to work with the naga. He chose to do so only for his own power, which even his people eventually came to realize.
mattarin May 28th 2009 1:37PM
@ Terethall
Your defense of the alliance is not that great. The orcs you are trying to blame are the ones that were unwillingly corrupted by their shaman leader, Nehr'zul and also Kil'jaden and most of those orcs are dead and gone except for the ones blizzard decided to keep alive for lore reasons. I know they willingly drank the blood of Mannorath but "drastic times call for drastic measures" and they would be exiled if they didn't. Majority of the orcs regret what they did in the past with the draenei and humans. Also Arthas had the ability to resist Nehr'zul's corruption but he was a "hot headed" and wanted all the power he could muster and to save his people...just like Anakin Skywalker wanted power and wanted to save Padme and could have easily resisted Palpatine's corruption. So like everyone says each side had thier rights and thier wrongs. At least the horde is trying to redeem themselves and forget the past and are willing to work with any race including the alliance to save Azeroth but its the alliance that wont work with the horde because they can't realize what the new horde stands for. They are stuck on the past and probably will never get over it. Personally i think its the humans that hold the alliance back. The other alliance races would be willing to work with the horde even the draenie possibly. Thrall wears Orgrim's armor because he honoring Orgrim. Its an orc tradition to honor the dead. Also it was the alliance who lead the assualt on the wrathgate because they were there first and already fighting the scourge when the horde showed up.
Also whoever said the elves from the horde side are haugty and elitist is wrong. They are the exact same as the high elves and for the alliance except for thier green eyes and how they used to use fel magic. The blood elves that followed kale'thas were never part of the horde so they don't count for making the horde seem evil. The leaders of the blood elves left behind chose to join the horde.
Game wise the alliance seems more evil. Two main bosses were from the alliance side. Arthas and Illidan. The horde doesnt have any. Also to WoWie Zowie...ive quested the horde side lots of times and there are no quests that make them evil. Unless you play the forsaken quest chain from trisifal to hillsbrad. Other then that most of them are killing beasts or other minor factions like quillboars and centaur but thats not "evil" its just war but the horde didnt start those wars. Mostly the centaur and quillboars wanted the tauren wiped out but the orcs saved and helped them survive this long and as far as i know the tauren has never started a war with any race because they keep to themselves.
Artificial May 28th 2009 2:03PM
The most interesting aspect of Josin's reply (the first in this thread) is how his argues about who the good guys are vs. who the bad guys are based on their likability. Apparently, having a pleasant personality is the new definition of good, and having an abrasive personality is the new definition of evil.
The irony is, of course, that many (of not most) real world bad guys have that pleasant personality he identifies with being the good guys. Certainly in con-men, but it goes way beyond that, and is often at the core of how they manage to involve otherwise good people in their evil plans. Evil is very often more charismatic than their good counterparts.
WoWie Zowie May 28th 2009 2:38PM
so apparently illidan is a NE bad guy and arthas is a human bad guy, so that makes alliance bad, or so was just spoken ^^
and i guess kael'thas is a NE too? in disguise?
nevermind that all of alliance denounce illidan and arthas, but wait, thrall honors orgrim by naming a capital city after him (and an airship in icecrown). why would he honor the commander that led the horde into khaz modan if he is trying to make amends?
o ya, he tried to kill you all and we love him for it, but can we be friends anyway?
please tell your warchief to send an olive branch, and while he's at it, to stop aligning with the forsaken.
and yes, the forsaken are the evilest of quest givers, but far from the "only" evil quests on the horde side. off the top of my head i remember an early orc quest involving destroying NE forests, and then killing them "in self defense".
i'm at a disadvantage that i don't remember all the quests i've done on horde side. i'm sorry about that. but i do remember thinking "man this is cruel"
thevitruvianman May 28th 2009 5:03PM
You guys are all crazy. You're just generalising factions based on what SOME members of that faction have done in the past. That's like saying all black people are evil because one black person murdered someone else 100 years ago. Not only is that ridiculous, it is also completely and utterly racist.
Whilst I agree that the Horde has a more blood on it's hands than the Alliance, you can't make huge sweeping generalisations and say that either one of them is 'evil'. The new Horde is not intent on wholesale destruction and slaughter like the old Horde was. Thrall is definitely not an evil character, neither is Cairne Bloodhoof. Kael'thas wasn't really evil, just terribly misguided, and Lady Liadrin and her knights are examples of Blood Elves who are clearly not evil. The forsaken clearly ARE evil, but you can't judge the entire Horde based on the actions of a single member faction.
There are plenty of members of the horde who commit evil acts, but such characters also exist in the alliance (surely Arthas has to rank as one of the most evil characters in warcraft). Both sides are somewhat morally grey, which frankly is how it should be. Ideas such as 'good guys and bad guys' are for small children and those lacking in brain cells.