The woes of Block
In a discussion of tanking mechanics on the forums, Ghostcrawler made a long and in depth post about various subjects that helped consolidate one of the real problems with block and block value in Wrath of the Lich King. Not only is blocking something that only two of the four tanking classes do, but it's a pretty lackluster stat for boss tanking.- Block as a mechanic is somewhere between avoidance and mitigation. Ideally it removes a fair amount of damage (vs. all damage) reasonably often (vs. rarely). If block is up 100% of the time it just becomes armor that you improve through a different stat. We have let block chances creep up frankly because the amount blocked is pretty trivial when bosses are hitting for 40% of your health pool every swing. If this still strikes you as too RNG, imagine abilities like Shield Block and Holy Shield that could guarantee 100% chance to block for a short period of time.
- We don't think block is cutting it as a mechanic, but the direction we are likely to take it is probably more of a change than you are considering.
This is an issue because, as Ghostcrawler posted in another thread:
- "We were starting to see many guilds ask their warrior or paladin to step aside so the DK could tank the hard mode encounters. This was not an isolated incident for a few guilds -- this was the kind of widespread phenomenon that really makes us take notice. If it was a boss or two that the DK was the best at, we would have just kept an eye on it. Increasingly though it was every hard mode. :( I will be the first to admit that the community is wrong sometimes. We don't think that is the case this time. The numbers backed up their conclusions pretty well. "
- We think there is a risk that druids will take the place of DKs now. We think that risk is small because while druid armor and health are high, their cooldowns are nowhere near the DK level. So we'll just keep an eye on it for now.
Mitigation, on the other hand, isn't random at all. High armor doesn't have the 'will I dodge or not' flavor, it simply always reduces how much incoming physical damage you actually take. As GC points out, mitigation is a great stat but it doesn't have the random factor that can sometimes save a tank's bacon. If you're down to 10k health and the next big swing is going to hit for 20k, avoidance might save you but mitigation certainly won't. Mitigation is a far more reliable stat which allows healers to have much more of a sense of how much damage a tank is going to take. Block Value shares the predictable nature of a mitigation stat: you know exactly how much you're going to block for. Of course, abilities like Shield Block and Holy Shield alter chance to block and in the case of SB how much you block for (so if you had 1200 SBV and hit shield block, you're now at 2400 SBV) which gives some wiggle room.
However, even with a cooldown ability, blocking usually simply isn't going to take enough damage off to keep a tank alive through two big hits from current 'boom damage' bosses. This is why blocking has become lackluster compared to other stats on gear and why DK's and Druids, with their much more predictable damage taken as tanks and higher health/armor pools, are prefered for hard modes over warriors and paladins. They're simply easier to heal. Blocking doesn't do much at all for situations like this. As long as blocking is so unimpressive, the tanks that don't bother to block will always be subject to incoming nerfs like this and balance between tanks will be difficult. It's therefore in every tank's interest if block can achieve parity.
What's the solution? Well, just allowing blocks to block magic damage doesn't really do much to address the big spikes of damage that block is failing to address as a mechanic. It's nice if blocking could prevent 20% of incoming magic damage, yes, but it still doesn't fix the oh snap he's going to hit me for 25k three times and the healers all have to move to avoid yet another burning circle of death and/or dismemberment on the floor so I have to take those three hits and somehow stay up mechanics that favor DK/Druid tanks. How do we make block relevant for those fights? Jacking up block value would possibly help to some degree, but then there's the use of block value as a threat stat to consider. If block values tripled, then Shield Slam damage would skyrocket as well. You know there would be problems if Shield of the Righteous started hitting for 10k and critting for 20. Also, if Block Value also blocked magic you run into the danger of PvP balance.
SInce GC has already mentioned that block rates have already gone up, a straightforward buffing of block rating probably isn't the answer either. They've already done that, and block still isn't cutting the mustard. In the end I'm forced to come back to the statement "the direction we are likely to take it is probably more of a change than you are considering." What does this mean? Obviously, I don't know, but it's possible that we could see the end of block value entirely and a shift to Block as a pure avoidance stat: you block, you take no damage. Then block rates could be dropped and Shield Slam/Damage Shield/Shield of the Righteous damage would be based entirely off of strength. That's one possible radical change that I can think of and I'm sure other tanks could think of others.
At any rate, block in its current state simply isn't nearly as compelling as it once was. It's moved from a solid all around tanking stat to more of a threat stat. Hopefully whatever they have planned will help with tanking parity and make the stat more useful.
Filed under: Druid, Paladin, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Raiding, Death Knight, Forums






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
emptyrepublic May 28th 2009 2:07PM
Just an idea off the top of my head (take it or leave it). How about block reducing a percentage (that could scale from BV) of all damage from a single source?
Racer May 28th 2009 2:40PM
That's the best avatar ever ;P
Van Gogh ftw x)
Aykwa May 28th 2009 3:32PM
Precisely along the lines I was thinking. Rather than having a block value of 1400 block say 1400 damage, maybe it blocks 35% or some other appropriate number. That way it isn't OP against little trash packs and UP against bosses. That would also mean that the current use of a block for threat mechanics wouldn't need to be changed either, since block values would still stay the same, but be more of a rating than representative of damage blocked. Seems like a much more elegant solution than something complicated and convoluted (if that is indeed what they are planning).
Sorro May 28th 2009 4:50PM
Empty, if you do that, then isn't BV just like armor?
d May 28th 2009 4:54PM
That strikes me as the best solution as well. Making it completely avoid damage would would be the simplest solution, but then we'd have dodge, parry and block, three stats that essentially do the exact same thing, which just seems like of boring. If they go that route, they may as well just combine them all into one stat, named 'avoidance', and just be completely generic about it.
Ideally, also combine the block rating and block value into a single stat, because having a single action be affected by two different stats seems rather overly complicated to me.
Gormakr May 28th 2009 5:39PM
That sounds problematic. Block is still a RNG-based ability - under this solution, block becomes more like a weak dodge than a weak armor. It will sometimes reduce damage by a [significant] percent, but if you miss 2 or 3 blocks in a row when a boss is throwing huge hits, you'll likely go down. Warriors and paladins don't have the health pools to be the damage sponges that druids and DKs do right now.
Of course, it does sound like it would at least better than how block works now...
I think that making block more of a cooldown may be something that they may look at?
emptyrepublic May 28th 2009 5:43PM
@Sorro: In my view no. It would mimic the Blade Barrier effect that DK's have already.
The balance would be that DK's can keep Blade Barrier's 5% damage reduction up nearly 100% of the time (only need to keep the 2 blood runes on cooldown) vs. Paladins and Warriors who would have a 15% (or whatever the block chance is) chance to "block" a physical or spell attack from a single source reducing its damage for 15-20%. Perhaps for every 100 BV the character gets 1% damage reduction against a SINGLE source.
This is something I just came up with out of the blue and am open up for another solution.
Thander May 28th 2009 2:07PM
DKs were overpowered at PvP and nerfed. Now they're overpowered at PvE?
It's sad that they are still trying to balance them 6 months after release.
Dharmabhum May 28th 2009 2:15PM
IMO its sad they had to introduce a hero class that seems to have ruined the balance of so many aspects of the game.
Alanid May 28th 2009 2:17PM
Because every other class WAS balanced after half a year of the original game being released.... oh wait...
Jon Do May 28th 2009 3:00PM
“Blizzard Achievement: Epic Fail at Class Balance - PvE Tanks”
Now if Blizzard just said that every class will have it’s day as the FOTM, that would be one thing, but they claim “balance” and “bring the player, not the class”.
I don’t know why the post I’m replying to was voted down, because I agree and it is a painfully obvious truth. WoW is around 4 years old, Wrath was in development at least a year, with a long beta, and is six months old, and raid tanking - not only blocking, but specifically DKs - are apparently still out-of-balance. And IIRC this has been known a long time - I remember an article here about this a while back. It talked about how by chaining cooldowns a DK could last longer than any other tank at the high end by a significant margin. Not only that, the article talked about how a DK also had much more anti-magic capability as well. They tried to address this in 3.1, but it would seem that they focused on nerfing DKs some without looking at the big picture of tanking, which includes the warrior/pally blocking mechanic.
Tridus May 28th 2009 3:14PM
I don't disagree with the sentiment, but the idea that DKs are at fault is wrong. Tanks were NEVER balanced in Vanilla, because there was a hierarchy. Warriors were better then the other tanks, by design. Period. When only one class is meant to be a serious tank, it's easy to make work, but doesn't meet any definition of balanced.
BC made a lot of progress on that, but it took the entire duration of it to actually get things to a reasonable spot, and we're talking what, 2 years on that?
6 months into Wrath just isn't the same time span compared to fixing it the first time.
Deathgodryuk May 28th 2009 3:17PM
The post got voted down because its an unavoidable aspect of any and every MMO. As long as you have classes that play the same roll and are different, some of them are going to be unintentionally better than others. Blizzard has easily been more active about addressing this problem than any company I've ever seen run an MMO, so to claim that Blizzard has just done nothing about balancing the classes is ridiculous. Warriors had been the best MT in the game for some 4 years, now other classes have stepped up and Warriors whine even though they can still be very decent MTs. Somehow I'm not surprised.
Jon Do May 28th 2009 3:42PM
“The post got voted down because its an unavoidable aspect of any and every MMO.”
Your statement is at odds with Blizzard’s design goal.
Blizzard claimed that their goal in Wrath was “Bring the player, not the class”. I assume that Blizzard thought that this was an attainable goal. But obviously over the first six months of Wrath there is strong evidence that the design for balance failed, and that WoW’s classes are not balanced (in many cases people are still choosing classes over players).
The question remains:
Was Blizzard’s veteran design team naïve and set an unachievable goal?
Or is MMO balance achievable, but Blizz failed?
Eisengel May 28th 2009 11:36PM
@ Jon Do
Yes (kind of) on both counts.
So long as any two classes that can fill the same role have any different mechanics, it is likely that one class would be a little better an a certain situation than the other. It is unlikely that any two classes with the same role will always be exactly as capable as the other in all situations (PvP, Arena, raiding, questing) so I would say that perfect balance is impossible in WoW and that the goal the design team set is unachievable.
I think MMO balance is perfectly achievable if there were no classes or different mechanics. If everyone has all the same abilities and gear, then there is balance... and a large multiplayer game like, say, Unreal Tournament, that's often the case. You all have the same abilities and weapons available and (disregarding vehicles and powerups) all players are on an even playing ground... however there is limited appeal to a game like that, and customization and different roles are part in parcel with what an RPG is.
In general I think that perfect balance in WoW is impossible.. however the fact that the developers want to get WoW as close as possible is commendable. I think they have done quite a good job so far. Often when I see DPS charts the different between #1 and #5 is at most 10%, and often quite smaller. Tanks have gotten much closer, as have healers. There are pieces here and there that need work, of course. Like this problem with shield block, or Priests trying to heal through poison (i've seen very good full T7 Holy Priests unable to heal through heroic UP), but I think we're going in the right direction.
What if Blizz said 'hey, perfect balance is unattainable, so we'll just stop here'? I don't think many people would be very happy with that.
So, yes I think perfect balance is impossible, and that other MMOs are balanced, but I don't think Blizz has failed in trying to balance WoW, or that they are naive enough to think perfect balance is possible, but I'm glad they are working toward it.
Alanid May 28th 2009 2:15PM
Here's hoping for the change to an avoidance stat
K May 28th 2009 2:57PM
Why would you want this?
Paladins (And I think warriors too?) can push their block up with skills so that their avoidance is 100%, completely pushing normal hits off the attack table. Every hit from the mob will be a parry, dodge, miss or block and armor reduces the damage from blocked hits even further.
To make it simple: Having enough block means that the tank will never take a full-force normal hit.
Alanid May 28th 2009 3:01PM
yeah but they still take the hit... it may not be full force, but its still damage
K May 28th 2009 3:28PM
And?
Taking hits is what the tank is supposed to do.
Tes May 28th 2009 3:40PM
Actually TAKING hits is a side effect.
The Tank is supposed to have hits directed at them rather than everyone else.
The less hits they take the easier it is for the healer to handle the situation.
As to the blocking still taking damage, having it reduced it wonderful but having to handle say three consecutive hits that each can nearly kill you, even with mitigation and block they're still going to kill you.
The shield classes don't have abilities to cause them to NOT take that damage for a bit, only to reduce it more or increase their hp for a little bit.