Officers' Quarters: Unsocial

Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.
What does your guild mean to you? Is it a community of like-minded players enjoying the company of their peers, helping one another to meet goals, and overcoming challenges together? Or is it simply a means to an end, a treadmill of raid attendance and loot rewards, where you slog through the necessary steps but never feel any real companionship with your fellow raiders? Some guilds start off as the former -- a fun, social organization -- and then end up as the latter -- a tier-set assembly line. This week, one officer wants to know how this can happen and what he can do about it.
Hello Scott,
I'm facing a dilemma that I'd like to share for a possible "Officers' Quarters".
I am an officer in a medium-sized European raiding guild. We have always been proud on our mature and social playerbase. It is one of our spearheads to provide fun raids in a relaxed atmosphere. But lately, the social aspect has been degrading. Ever since the launch of Wrath and people rushing to level 80 something has changed. Where TBC provided a challenge and a common goal to work towards (mainly progressing through the different raid instances) Wrath has left us with a lack of common binder.
Our members are too busy with themselves, either working on achievements or doing the Argent Tournament. There is no helping each other out unless there is something to gain personally. A raid nowadays is a group of people gathering, doing what has to be done, and going there own way as soon as the raid is over. Although there is still laughter and silliness, it's very limited and only from a couple of players. Most communication done is strictly functional. Guildchat is the same, hardly anyone greets a person who comes online and the chatting has been reduced to "Gratz" on an Achievement. It is hard to describe the feeling but trust me when I say that the connection between the guildmembers is missing somehow.
This has caused us to lose our edge over other raiding guilds, and now we face players leaving to find the missing link elsewhere. For me, the exact cause is indefinable, its hard to fight a feeling that my guildmembers have, let alone come with a solution. Any suggestions would be most welcome.
Thank you in advance.
Regards,
Anonymous
Guilds go through periods like this from time to time. A few problems could be the culprit in your case.
One is that your members have "cliqued up." That means they'll help out the people in their group, and interact with them on a social level, but they don't want to deal with anyone else. This usually results in fewer conversations in guild chat. People have their own channels or use Vent to communicate, so they don't have to deal with people outside their clique. One way to identify this type of behavior is to look for patterns of who's running Heroics together, who's in the same Vent channel, etc.
Cliques are common in larger guilds especially. They have a purpose in that they keep people who actively dislike each other from interacting too often. But they can also produce the feeling of social malaise that the e-mail's author is witnessing.
Another cause could be a single player, or maybe two, that have shut everyone else down. Do you have a player who constantly begs for help in guild chat, even for things they could easily do solo? That could dampen your member's enthusiasm to help anyone. They won't want to speak up and be ID'ed as a person who helps, because then that player who always needs help will pester them.
Do you have a player who makes awkward statements in guild chat? A player who says offensive things, or bums people out with depressing statements, or trolls the channel looking for an argument, can absolutely murder guild chat.
These problems can be difficult to root out if you didn't notice them before they shut down the socializing in your guild. The only way to find out what happened is to speak with some members and ask them why they think the social nature of the guild has changed.
Identifying the cause is just the first step. Now you need to take steps to build up a community again.
My recommendation is to talk to your fellow officers about the issue. Acknowledge the problem. Some officers may not even be aware of it. Then discuss ways you can help. This is definitely a situation where officers have to take the lead.
Encourage them to instigate conversation in guild chat. Stir things up with a joke or just talk about a movie. Get people talking to one another, even if the conversations are silly. If your officers are prone to having fun conversations in the officers' channel, ask them to take those conversations into /g when they can.
Also, ask your fellow officers to be the ones who volunteer to help. As the leaders, you have to set the example. Helping encourages others to help.
One thing I do every so often is to schedule a two-hour window, announced in advance, where I help anyone with anything they need to do. It's tough sometimes to drop what you're doing to help someone with a random request, particularly if you have limited playtime. But if you log in with the expectation that you're there purely to help, you can approach it with a more positive attitude, and even have some fun with it. By announcing it in advance, it can cut down on the random help requests throughout the week. People will know that if they ask during that window, they'll get the help they need.
Another strategy is to ask if anyone needs helps when you first log in. That way, you won't have the feeling of being interrupted in your tasks.
You could also put together a fun event that isn't raiding -- something purely social or fun (or even achievement-based, like raiding cities, if that's what it takes to get people interested). Give your members something interesting to talk about. Even progression raiding can become a chore. Do something new and different!
/salute
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
anonymoose Jun 1st 2009 2:14PM
I too have watched cliques erode a guild environment over time. What people don't necessarily like to look at is that the closed small groups (be they heroics at the release of Wrath, or 10 man raids) lead to more than just social deadening, they also create a huge experience and gear disparity. You end up with encounter experience being held in the hands of just a few--and while these few accrue the experience they also get gear upgrades, often completely free of regular dkp channels.
I witnessed this happen in my guild at Wrath release--a group of mostly officers, class leads, and other "favored" individuals seemed to forget that we were actually a 25 man raid force. As a top performing healer in TBC, I was suprised to find myself sidelined and unable to get into heroics for rep grinding for my helm meta, unless I pugged. I was likewise suprised to find myself not invited to 10 mans, while I watched my class leader accrue numerous helpful upgrades free of dkp. I knew when we got into the 25 mans, that I would rather permanently be at a marked disadvantage in terms of gearing.
Gear & content experience aside, I was very disheartened to see the folks I'd closely raided with in 25 mans, people I'd helped while we leveled, suddenly act as if we were not a 25 man raid force. I remember talking with the GM of a guild that we had once helped (that was now ahead of us in progression), and when he told me that he never ran all officers in one group, they rotated people through the 10s (even with sub-par group comps), and anyone who needed a specific run, they made sure that person got it. It was no suprise when they pulled far ahead in progression: they never forgot they were a 25 man raid force.
I ended up leaving my then guild--the successful guilds I've seen since then all have this in common: they remember that the 25s are what they are about. I've heard GMs say things like "Mix your groups up. You need to learn to work with everyone you raid with, so I don't want to see you doing clique heroics and 10 mans." or "Make sure you are test driving the new recruits by including them in your heroics and 10 mans, don't avoid these people. We need to know their strengths and weaknesses and the only way to do that is to spend time with them."
Once that mentality is in place--the social is an important aspect. While I enjoy the raid challenges around achievements, I don't like that the overall impact of the achievement system has been to encourage more greed. Sure we can bring the class and not the player now, sure we can make progression in 9-12 hours a week now, but the busy work of achievements is a real distraction that eats up much of the free time that might have been whiled away in guild social groups just doing something for fun.
Zamboni Jun 1st 2009 7:58PM
This is what's slowing killing our guild. (I left this morning.) Most of the officers consolidated into a single 10-man raiding team, cannibalizing the other groups of their tanks to fill out dps slots. Most of the raids now are just the officers gearing up themselves or their alts.
The widening gear gap is making further guild progression unlikely. Half the of the 25-man raiders are running around in PvP gear, and the dps groups can't kill bosses before the enrage timers run out and the tanks die. The overall power of the raids seems to be going backwards as people leave in frustration and are replaced with fresh recruits.
Several of us have talked to the officers before about "uncliqueing" and helping reform the other groups, but they seem content to take the guild down to a single 10-man team and lose everyone else.
rulez Jun 1st 2009 8:03PM
Every guild leader and officer should read this :).
anonymoose Jun 1st 2009 8:27PM
I think what is fascinating about this trend is that it would be far more honest to cannibalize a formerly successful SWP raiding guild to become a 10 man raiding force in Wrath--however for the most part that's not what I've seen. This is why I came to the conclusion that it was then about loot, because it would put those not part of the "in group" at a near permanent gear and therefore dkp disadvantage.
This isn't a guild of baddies who couldn't kill KJ until well into Wrath release. We downed Mu'ru pre 3.0. Wanting to remain a viable 25 man progression guild while forming cliques for 10 mans is a pretty dishonest way of going about running a guild.
At the time when I left I was accused of leaving over "10 man $h!t". My reply was and is the same: I didn't leave over 10 man @h!t, I left over 25 man $h!t. I joined a 25 man raiding guild because that was what I wanted to do, raid 25 man content. Not because I wanted to witness a fracturing of the guild every time an xpac went live.
(My apologies for the double spam--I tried to reply to this thread and accidentally put the reply someplace else.)
joerendous Jun 1st 2009 2:29PM
that pic is aweseomly emo
salaam.dune Jun 1st 2009 4:21PM
Thought this was a great article. As an officer of a middle sized (130 or so members) guild, i have certainly encountered the same situation, and find myself as flumoxxed when it comes to addressing the problems. Thanks for the great insight and advice into how to approach this very real problem.
~J
Kole Jun 1st 2009 4:59PM
THIS is what I have been leaving guilds over. It drives me crazy to have a friend (from PUGs, crafting services, etc.) tell me about their great guild, then to join and get the standard, Welcome, then nothing. Seriously, I hear crickets...
As far as Vent. I HATE it. Loathe it. Despise it. Almost as much as I hate the telephone, but not quite. I am sure this is a social phobia but really I can't help it. So when I raid, I just listen in and go...I do not have a mic, nor do I want one.
I suppose that will keep me out of Ulduar and probably alot of good guilds. Sad that people are "punished" like that....shrug.
Mickthathick Jun 1st 2009 8:42PM
It's not a punishment, it's a requirement. Accept that if you want to raid, you need voice communications, if you don't want to use voice communications then stop crying about it and go do your Argent Tournment dailies.
Mungo Jun 3rd 2009 4:13AM
There are plenty of raiders who don't like / don't use voice comms. There are some players who /can't/: perhaps for physical reasons; or perhaps because of where they play, in the communal area of a family home for example.
Why not commit to starting a text-only raiding guild? You'll probably get a few takers, and who knows, you might even have some success.
Mungyun Jun 1st 2009 5:08PM
Lol wow, i didnt realize so many people felt the same way! I just think its one of the things that came w/ this new expansion. Our guild was different in TBC but now people seem to be more interested int their main and alts gain. Which is fine because that is pretty much the whole reason that people play the game but it seemed that before we would have drunken pvp and such. Now its just a normal day at work it seems.
Kz Jun 1st 2009 5:09PM
I am in a guild that has had the same problem. A clique formed early on in WotLK. These were basically the players that leveled to 80 first. The clique ran heroics, 5 and 10 man, to fully equip themselves with epics. Once this was accomplished, personal conflicts started happeningas other members reached 80. The clique which included many officers felt their progress was being held back by spending too much time helping others, while jealousy within the non-clique members showed its ugly head. Since all content could now be experienced via 10-man groups, the clique felt no need to expand the guild for 25-man runs with all the headaches that entails. The end result was the clique formed a new guild leaving our guild gutted and disheartened. Rebuilding is coming along at a slow pace.
cfpz82 Jun 1st 2009 5:47PM
I have the opposite probelm, my guild Fluffy Pink Bunnies on US server Azgalor suffers from a lack of members because we ARE a social guild. Because so many of us have things to do in RL, game times are different, and Naxx/Ulduar fever means "Social" labels are a death sentence for guilds.
If you aren't working to get everyone the latest epic piece, they don't want your guild. Quite sad for those of us who dont have the time to dedicate to hardcore raiding.
danawhitaker Jun 1st 2009 7:24PM
About 1/2 to 3/4 of the core of our guild (and level 80s) have been friends since 2001/2002. So we definitely don't have this issue. Almost any time I ask for help, short of someone having to leave for work or something else, they're able to help. If anything, actually, we're more part of the problem of being a mini-clique because we feel such loyalty to each other.
We're sort of in a frustrating position right now. Of the 10 unique level 80 people (some have alts), we'll usually get about 5-8 online on a given night at the same time. It's difficult trying to form heroic groups without having to exclude people. I usually try to exclude the person who will benefit least from the gear being offered and/or who doesn't give a murloc's ear about achievements. I still feel bad.
We've also had some recent rows among the core members about running progression content vs. old world content and achievements. We're still trying to work out the details on that. While many of us are now geared to be running Naxx-10 and even Naxx-25, finding groups at the right times of day is a constant problem. So I'm still trying to get people running through the heroics both for gear and the achievements. I just hate getting on at night, and when I have a few dailies to finish, one of my raid-happy friends gets mad if I'd rather do those than run right to an instance or raid. He seems unaware that progression != fun all the time. So I'm trying to get our guild to do what several others seem to have mentioned, which is having specific nights set aside for old world content and helping people and achievement runs. That way, we can start doing progression consistently, but also have breaks so people don't feel it's a constant grind.
The biggest change I've seen and that I'm concerned will start to eventually erode the guild is the fact that our core group is using vent almost constantly at night. I can't during the day because I'm taking care of my daughter, but when I come on for the night I usually try and fire it up pretty quickly (and yes, I was one of those people who swore I'd never talk in voice chat, but I find it provides a level of camaraderie and familiarity and ease that text chat just can't quite convey). I'm worried that the people who aren't using vent for whatever reasons (and I'd never force them) are going to start feeling left out. But short of beating them senseless with my Titansteel Destroyer, they probably aren't going to bother.
Noscy Jun 1st 2009 7:39PM
Cliques are all to common in my experience, I have never been once included in their (My Guild) 10man content... after I was asked to change characters to improve raid utility (1 warrior out of a 25 raid group is pretty unique).
Its pretty said when guild chat consists of, Loot Drama from one individual, and another complaining about everything under the sun. Apart from that its crickets and tumble weeds.
originalolive292 Jun 1st 2009 9:52PM
This pretty much happened to one of my old guilds in BC. Originally we consisted of about 15 fun-loving, skillful players who wanted to advance in content. So, we farmed our gear up in KZ and heroics and slowly bolstered up our ranks. Yet, by the time we had around thirty members geared to move on to the next tiers, we were downed to only about 5 of our original crew. Still, we were very successful and burned through all the rest of T4 in a month and caught the furthest progressed guild alliance side at 5/6-3/4. But the experience was missing something. The raids were no longed filled with jokes and fun but instead extreme focus and determination. I brought this up as a class leader with our GM but he insisted it was a necessary movement. So, I eventual burned out of raiding as it felt like a chore, working with handfuls of people I couldn't relate too.
So, over all my feelings on this matter are that a guild should remain true to its values. If the guild sets out to solely advance through content, then it must do just that to survive. On the other hand, if the guild wishes to be social then it should do that.
Unfortunately, my guild eventually crumbled under its own weight and was forced to transfer to turn a fresh leaf. So, writer, I hope your issues are resolved and your guild returns to its former glory.
anonymoose Jun 1st 2009 8:24PM
I think what is fascinating about this trend is that it would be far more honest to cannibalize a formerly successful SWP raiding guild to become a 10 man raiding force in Wrath--however for the most part that's not what I've seen. This is why I came to the conclusion that it was then about loot, because it would put those not part of the "in group" at a near permanent gear and therefore dkp disadvantage.
This isn't a guild of baddies who couldn't kill KJ until well into Wrath release. We downed Mu'ru pre 3.0. Wanting to remain a viable 25 man progression guild while forming cliques for 10 mans is a pretty dishonest way of going about running a guild.
At the time when I left I was accused of leaving over "10 man $h!t". My reply was and is the same: I didn't leave over 10 man @h!t, I left over 25 man $h!t. I joined a 25 man raiding guild because that was what I wanted to do, raid 25 man content. Not because I wanted to witness a fracturing of the guild every time an xpac went live.
Red Viking Jun 1st 2009 9:56PM
At the same time, people need to keep in mind that your guild members who are forming cliques aren't necessarily the bad guys becuase cliques form naturally among those who spend more time with each other. In addition, I don't know where people get the mentality that people doing things that benefit them is a bad thing. Giving people a reason for doing something is hands down the best way to get someone to go along with something, which is why I applaud this article for its suggestions. There will be people who are completely altruistic in this regard, but if you expect and assume this altruism out of everyone who plays the game or who is in your guild, you are going to grow disillusioned very quickly.
In my guild, I am part of a clique that raids, I'll admit that. And I can tell you that it really hurt when some of our friends had enough one day. We had absolutely no idea that there was so much resentment because we honestly weren't trying to exclude anyone.
If you feel that you're being excluded, let others know in a polite way because your guild members aren't mind readers. Poor communication kills and bottling up those feelings until the inevitable happens can result in a situation that would have never happened had you simply just asked to be included.
Those guild members who split off and formed their own guild aren't always people who felt other guild members were holding them back. They could be guild members who were extremely hurt by accusations from people they thought were friends and weren't going to take it anymore.
Kole Jun 1st 2009 11:03PM
It IS punishment when you have a phobia or whatnot over voice chat, telephones, hell even spiders or snakes. Forcing someone to use Vent or be in the room with bugs (if that is your phobia) is not a way to HELP someone. Giving a shit is. I am not asking for special privileges, I am just asking for understanding.
Vent is NOT a requirement to play the game. It is a convenience. Much like every single addon out there. I am sure players did just fine when it didn't exist...
And no thank you to the Argent Tourney. Don't like it.
A question to everyone because this annoys the FUCK out of me...Why is it when someone expresses an opinion, no matter how banal, it is automatically "QQ'ing"? Seriously...
theRaptor Jun 2nd 2009 3:28AM
Actually forced exposure to phobic objects is the common therapy (systematic desensitization) to get rid of phobias. Enabling a phobic person to avoid the phobic object just reinforces the phobia via operational conditioning (the behaviour of avoiding the object is negatively reinforced by the removal of the anxious feelings).
I have social phobia (diagnosed by an actual psychiatrist, not the wikipedia article) and I have mostly gotten over it because various things (including raiding) have forced me to confront my phobia.
YIAAPS (Yes I Am A Psychology Student).
Kole Jun 2nd 2009 3:42AM
Difference is that this is a game. Something I do for enjoyment. If I want to be forced to face my fears then it should be done outside of this environment. Otherwise I will be tainting something I enjoy...then what's left?
Really with the constant homophobic, racist, state an opinion and get flamed and general bullshit comments in the game, and this "problem" of mine not wanting/fearing to speak in Vent just to do a raid (and I never said earlier but yes I know the fights, I read strat and watch the videos) or content available to my characters level...it seems that a MMO is not for me.
Unfortunate, but there are other things in life to do. I can always play Gin on Yahoo or something just as lame, but still get the social interaction if I so choose.