Ask a Lore Nerd: It's a piece of cake to bake a pretty cake
Welcome to Ask a Lore Nerd, where each week blogger and columnist Alex Ziebart answers your questions about the lore and history of the World of Warcraft. Ask your questions in the comments section below, and we'll try to answer it in a future edition.
I didn't intentionally choose today's Scourge theme. Really. These things just happen. That Dragon-specific one I did all that time ago? I didn't plan that, either. I'm just awesome enough that these things come together all by themselves. Yep. It's my pure, radiant awesome.
What? What do you mean current game content dictates what topics are hot or not? Pssh, that's crazy talk. That can't be it. It's all me, y'all.
Briz9 asked...
"Who built Icecrown Citadel and the accompanying structures? Did Arthas build it after he became the Lich King, or was it already there?"
The massive Saronite structures that make up Icecrown as it is today is all fairly new, from what I understand. Most Scourge architecture is based on Nerubian architecture (as you can see in Ahn'kahet) but the Saronite structures in and around Icecrown seem more styled after the Lich King himself. You certainly didn't see that stuff in Warcraft III either, but I suppose that's not always a good indicator.
Inevitably someone will ask how the Scourge built all of that in the less-than-a-decade between WCIII and Wrath of the Lich King, so I'll nip that one right away: Come on, it's Warcraft. Have you seen the Scourge? You know, the endless hordes of the damned, some of which wield horrific amounts of magic and they construct mile-high monstrosities of twisted flesh, bone and metal? Yeah, sure, it would take us boring real life humans a lot longer to encase an entire region of the world in metal, but the Scourge? Those bone giants in Icecrown are half the height of the gates. They could erect one of those things in a few days provided they have the materials.
Malix asked...
"What happened to the Qiraji after we invaded their place and took out their boss? I just don't see the Horde/Alliance completely erasing an entire species out of existence."
You might be surprised. The Qiraji didn't exactly have a vast empire anymore, they had nowhere to run, and our only experiences with them have been them and their God attempting to eradicate pretty much everyone. Every single living Qiraji was in Ahn'Qiraj. The way the Horde and Alliance tore up Silithus when the gates opened, they very well might have wiped out most of them, if not all of them.
That being said, I wouldn't be shocked if we met some survivors down the road. Ahn'Qiraj is one of the current locales being used extensively in the World of Warcraft comic, but the Twilight's Hammer has taken it over. They still can't decide whether C'Thun is dead or not, so maybe the Qiraji aren't dead either. Or maybe they are. Or maybe they're not. Or maybe they are! Freaking comic.
LeafHoof asked...
"Are all Nerubians bad? Clearly there is some sort of faction because of the quest givers for Azjol-Nerub and Old Kingdom. But will Blizzard ever explore the Nerubians more?"
If my memory serves me right (and there's a chance it doesn't), they initially planned to do way more with Azjol-Nerub. At least their initial description of what it would be differed from what is there in Wrath. The Nerubians do still have a non-Scourged faction, but they're few in number. According to the RPG book Lands of Mystery, the living Nerubians use a place called The Sundered Monolith as their holdout. It's stated in that book that only 400 living Nerubians remained at the Monolith.
It's questionable whether those Nerubians are civilized in the way we interpret that word or not. Sure, they're not the Scourge, but that doesn't mean they're gumdrops and rainbows. They could be vicious and brutal in a very different way. We don't know, because Azjol-Nerub's representation in Wrath of the Lich King is sadly skimmed over. It was one of the things I looked forward to seeing most in Wrath, ever since I wrote Know Your Lore: Azjol-Nerub. It's just not there, though. Who knows if we'll ever see more.
The following question contains spoilers for Arthas: Rise of the Lich King. If you plan on reading that, you're done. Column over. Move on with your life.
Wahsup asked...
"At the end of Rise of the Lich King, it's heavily implied that Arthas' mind is the ONLY mind that makes up the Lich King. This contradicts both the official Blizzard comment "Now Arthas and Ner'zhul's spirit are one and together they are the Lich King." and some in game text (the quest where The Lich King says something to the effect of "I used to be a shaman once."). Which is in the right here? Is the Lich King JUST Arthas now, or still Arthas/Ner'zhul?"
The Lich King is not one or the other. The Lich King is both, and he is neither. The scene at the end of Arthas shouldn't be interpreted literally. In the crowded mind that was the head of the Lich King, the Lich King entity (not Arthas!) killed off both Ner'zhul and Prince Arthas. It's symbolic of the loss of individuality, and that's what they've been trying to really drive home about the Lich King. The individual components, Ner'zhul and Arthas, don't even exist anymore. They've become one, and in the process of becoming one, both of them were lost. So saying, "They're both the Lich King" is pretty much the same as saying, "Neither of them are the Lich King."
To try and give an example, imagine that you're starting to bake a cake. You've laid out all of your ingredients. The eggs, the butter, the flour, the vanilla, all of that. You can point out each and every ingredient. You can point at an egg and tell everyone that it's an egg and they can clearly see that. You can do the same with all of the other ingredients. Once you've mixed them and baked them into a cake, can you do that anymore? Can you take a piece of that cake and point out where in the cake the flour is? Could you still hold up a piece of cake to someone and point out the egg? No, you can't. Sure, the things are there in the cake, but you can't find it anymore. You can't take take the cake apart and end up with a fully formed egg again, either. All of the ingredients have changed irreversibly. Those ingredients make up a whole, and in the process of making that whole you lost the ability to perceeve each item individually.
I didn't intentionally choose today's Scourge theme. Really. These things just happen. That Dragon-specific one I did all that time ago? I didn't plan that, either. I'm just awesome enough that these things come together all by themselves. Yep. It's my pure, radiant awesome.
What? What do you mean current game content dictates what topics are hot or not? Pssh, that's crazy talk. That can't be it. It's all me, y'all.
Briz9 asked...
"Who built Icecrown Citadel and the accompanying structures? Did Arthas build it after he became the Lich King, or was it already there?"
The massive Saronite structures that make up Icecrown as it is today is all fairly new, from what I understand. Most Scourge architecture is based on Nerubian architecture (as you can see in Ahn'kahet) but the Saronite structures in and around Icecrown seem more styled after the Lich King himself. You certainly didn't see that stuff in Warcraft III either, but I suppose that's not always a good indicator.
Inevitably someone will ask how the Scourge built all of that in the less-than-a-decade between WCIII and Wrath of the Lich King, so I'll nip that one right away: Come on, it's Warcraft. Have you seen the Scourge? You know, the endless hordes of the damned, some of which wield horrific amounts of magic and they construct mile-high monstrosities of twisted flesh, bone and metal? Yeah, sure, it would take us boring real life humans a lot longer to encase an entire region of the world in metal, but the Scourge? Those bone giants in Icecrown are half the height of the gates. They could erect one of those things in a few days provided they have the materials.
Malix asked...
"What happened to the Qiraji after we invaded their place and took out their boss? I just don't see the Horde/Alliance completely erasing an entire species out of existence."
You might be surprised. The Qiraji didn't exactly have a vast empire anymore, they had nowhere to run, and our only experiences with them have been them and their God attempting to eradicate pretty much everyone. Every single living Qiraji was in Ahn'Qiraj. The way the Horde and Alliance tore up Silithus when the gates opened, they very well might have wiped out most of them, if not all of them.
That being said, I wouldn't be shocked if we met some survivors down the road. Ahn'Qiraj is one of the current locales being used extensively in the World of Warcraft comic, but the Twilight's Hammer has taken it over. They still can't decide whether C'Thun is dead or not, so maybe the Qiraji aren't dead either. Or maybe they are. Or maybe they're not. Or maybe they are! Freaking comic.
LeafHoof asked...
"Are all Nerubians bad? Clearly there is some sort of faction because of the quest givers for Azjol-Nerub and Old Kingdom. But will Blizzard ever explore the Nerubians more?"
If my memory serves me right (and there's a chance it doesn't), they initially planned to do way more with Azjol-Nerub. At least their initial description of what it would be differed from what is there in Wrath. The Nerubians do still have a non-Scourged faction, but they're few in number. According to the RPG book Lands of Mystery, the living Nerubians use a place called The Sundered Monolith as their holdout. It's stated in that book that only 400 living Nerubians remained at the Monolith.
It's questionable whether those Nerubians are civilized in the way we interpret that word or not. Sure, they're not the Scourge, but that doesn't mean they're gumdrops and rainbows. They could be vicious and brutal in a very different way. We don't know, because Azjol-Nerub's representation in Wrath of the Lich King is sadly skimmed over. It was one of the things I looked forward to seeing most in Wrath, ever since I wrote Know Your Lore: Azjol-Nerub. It's just not there, though. Who knows if we'll ever see more.
The following question contains spoilers for Arthas: Rise of the Lich King. If you plan on reading that, you're done. Column over. Move on with your life.
Wahsup asked...
"At the end of Rise of the Lich King, it's heavily implied that Arthas' mind is the ONLY mind that makes up the Lich King. This contradicts both the official Blizzard comment "Now Arthas and Ner'zhul's spirit are one and together they are the Lich King." and some in game text (the quest where The Lich King says something to the effect of "I used to be a shaman once."). Which is in the right here? Is the Lich King JUST Arthas now, or still Arthas/Ner'zhul?"
The Lich King is not one or the other. The Lich King is both, and he is neither. The scene at the end of Arthas shouldn't be interpreted literally. In the crowded mind that was the head of the Lich King, the Lich King entity (not Arthas!) killed off both Ner'zhul and Prince Arthas. It's symbolic of the loss of individuality, and that's what they've been trying to really drive home about the Lich King. The individual components, Ner'zhul and Arthas, don't even exist anymore. They've become one, and in the process of becoming one, both of them were lost. So saying, "They're both the Lich King" is pretty much the same as saying, "Neither of them are the Lich King."
To try and give an example, imagine that you're starting to bake a cake. You've laid out all of your ingredients. The eggs, the butter, the flour, the vanilla, all of that. You can point out each and every ingredient. You can point at an egg and tell everyone that it's an egg and they can clearly see that. You can do the same with all of the other ingredients. Once you've mixed them and baked them into a cake, can you do that anymore? Can you take a piece of that cake and point out where in the cake the flour is? Could you still hold up a piece of cake to someone and point out the egg? No, you can't. Sure, the things are there in the cake, but you can't find it anymore. You can't take take the cake apart and end up with a fully formed egg again, either. All of the ingredients have changed irreversibly. Those ingredients make up a whole, and in the process of making that whole you lost the ability to perceeve each item individually.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Lore, Ask a Lore Nerd







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Patta Jun 2nd 2009 2:04PM
You gotta do the cooking by the book, you know you can't be lazy.
Or Arthas will claim your eternal soul, or something like that.
Ithas Jun 2nd 2009 2:12PM
Cooking by the Book feat. Lil' Jon stands to this day as the greatest youtube video of all time.
Warren Jun 2nd 2009 4:59PM
never use a messy recipe the cake will come out crazy.
Nerdagain Jun 2nd 2009 2:10PM
Did you get the title of the Article from that song they did in that kids show Lazy Town? My 1year old son loves the show and I hear the song all the time on the rerun.
slimj091 Jun 3rd 2009 2:47AM
no.. he got it from some completely different source in an alternate reality where nick junior, or noggin channels have yet to be invented
Charlie Jun 2nd 2009 2:11PM
Gah, i want to read the last question so bad. I just ordered the book today. Lol.
paragorillabear Jun 2nd 2009 2:23PM
Ah! a homogenous mixture...
Endario Jun 2nd 2009 2:15PM
In before "The cake is a lie"?
I was also thinking about the Icecrown structures and when they came into being (I couldn't bring myself to go past the Quel'Thalas missions in WC): thanks for clearing that up a little.
Saix Jun 2nd 2009 2:17PM
You gotta do the cookin' by the book!
Alanid Jun 2nd 2009 2:17PM
Finally some clarification on the end of the Arthas novel, well done sir, you get to live for another day.
Alanid Jun 2nd 2009 7:21PM
I just read the end of the book again and i must say that you sir are infact a tad incorrect. Anyway enough of that stuff.
SPOILER FOR ARTHAR ENDING
In the dream ARTHAS was split into his 2 halfs his good side and his bad side, and ner'zul was there as well. Arthas tells the boy that he is whats left of his compassion and humanity, then stabs him. Ner'zul is all like "Shit yeah man, now we can rule the galaxy like father and son.... i mean... some kind of symbiotic shit" Arthas is all like well F*** that and stabs him too. So what is left is the evil and extremely corrupted side of arthas.
MY speculation is... well we SEE the young boy that he supposedly got rid off, does this not mean that ner'zul could be hanging around? IMO the 2 "spirits" if you will, will help in the fight against Arthas, perhaps the other heroes, i.e. jaina, varian, garrosh, thrall, etc get worn down, or hold back loads of other undead during the encounter.
Anyway, that's my take. Time for some sleep.
Laughtrey Jun 2nd 2009 2:22PM
The Scourge are invariably going to build things at an increased rate, besides their supernatural power there is no rest or down time for them. I'm actually surprised they didn't get more built.
Mike Jun 2nd 2009 6:06PM
Yeah, but those Icecrown structures are some fine quality craftmanship.
I don't think a huge army of mindless drones are going to be able to put something like that together at all, much less in a hurry.
I think the only members of the scourge that would be able to build like that would be the higher functioning undead masons, of which there's probably not that many.
I think the real answer is much more sinister. The entire area was filmed on a sound stage in the arctic somewhere and isn't real at all! It's all a big hoax!
Siddaru Jun 2nd 2009 8:54PM
@ Mike
I'd think an army of mindless, psychically controlled soldiers would be the perfect source of good craftsmanship. All you need is one intelligent Scourge to tell them what to do, and they'll do it exactly as they're told without question. I mean, the Great Pyramids (which were originally so precisely crafted that they had a mirror shine) were built mainly by farmers who happened to be devoted to their task and did exactly what their masters told them to do.
Pride[WC Radio] Jun 2nd 2009 2:26PM
Alex you should note when things are purely speculation with nothing canonical sitting behind it. We don't know exactly what they meant with the end of the book. Next time I talk to Chris i'll shoot you an email about it.
macster Jun 2nd 2009 2:30PM
There must be an easier analogy for the last question. Arthas is like a gin and tonic, maybe?
Mmmm. Gin.
DeathPaladin Jun 2nd 2009 3:11PM
Maybe Gin and Coffee?
Oh my...
Ghostcrawler is the Lich King!
Lokasenna Jun 2nd 2009 3:34PM
1. The Holy Trinity. According the many Christian sects, their one God has three facets/personalities/whatever - Father, Son, Holy Ghost.
2. The Borg. Arthas and Ner'zhul have been assimilated. Their biological and technological distinctiveness has been added to the Lich King.
Robert M Jun 2nd 2009 4:34PM
@DeathPaladin,
Considering the havoc that some believe GC has wreaked on Azeroth, you might find a whole faction of players who find this to be true.
Aler Jun 2nd 2009 2:30PM
On the topic of the Nerubians and the Qiraji, is there any relation in the lore between the two? Or are two insect civilizations coincidental?