Same, as a Shaman I include my weapon enchant (flametongue or earthliving) in the stats. I'll also look at the stats my totems give me and include them as well. If you do it to yourself then you should always include it because you're not assuming someone else will be there.

Now...if you give the stats you had last night when fully raid buffed for a 5 man then you're an idiot and an asshole. I hate inviting people in who are like "well, that was with Well Fed, Flask, and Kings."

I agree wholeheartedly: your stats are your self-buffed stats. Unbuffed = not buffed by others, the base that you will always have.

/agree

the buffs that you will never not have are fair to include. as a druid i count my form buff and motw. i do not count food buffs or flasks though. it's been a long time since i pugged into anything but if i was asked i'd say 2.5k even though i know that i can push up to 3.3 depending on buffs and eclipse procs; by saying 2.5 i leave no room for them to be let down by me pulling under what i claimed since i never pull under 2.5 unless the healer goes down and i have to take over or i'm the only one decursing or i pass out on the keyboard with my nose on my moonfire key.

I totally agree, but throwing in "self buffed" lets the person you are talking to know that you know what the hell you are talking about.

It's just easier that way, with fel armor working/boomkin/trees all getting spellpower perks off spirit, it's important to give your self-buffed stats because I seriously doubt they are going to say, "oh ya, what's ur spirit" so they can do the math themselves.

The other thing is that you should always be honest about your stats. If someone asks my tank stats, I always give armor, HP, total avoidance and say I am block capped. If I have the right buffs like horn of winter, I can drop some block for the extra dodge I am getting and stay over the cap, but I don't say that, I just adjust my gear to get the best stats avail.

If someone is asking it should be inferred that you give them the stats you can acquire on your own, so anything less is somewhat a waste of time to report.

My problem with this line of thinking is that self-buffed numbers are a bit misleading. For instance a Resto Shaman with 2000 sp self-buffed is not equavelant to a Resto Druid with 2000 sp self-buffed. Self-buffs are part of the way that blizzard equalizes preformance between classes. The resto druid with 2000 sp self-buffed is typically sporting a 150 earthliving, plus 144 flametongue totem, etc. A resto druid does get the master shapeshifter bonus (4%), and the imp tree bonus (15% or spirit), plus mark (which adds to the imp tree bonus).

If you were looking at 2 players both with 1700 pure unbuffed sp, the Shaman would likely have about 100 or more higher self-buffed spell power, however a druid with his lower self-buffed number would be able to preform at the same level all things considering (skill mostly). And that doesn't take into account priests or paladins, holy priests and holy pallies don't have any innate sp multiplier, but the intent of blizzard is for all classes to preform roughly at the same level with the same spell power.

If you look at pure unbuffed numbers you are much more likely to get a better comparison. Another thing to consider is that the armory now gives pure unbuffed spell-power if someone were to look you up, and if someone asks for your spell power, and you give him your self-buffed number (presumably without telling him it's self-buffed), it makes you look bad, especially when you're found out. It is a symptom of someone trying to front more skill then they have.

Likewise for dps you want to use unbuffed for the same reason, when I give my hunter's AP, I always indicate aspected or unaspected AP. A DPS warrior should not give a AP that includes BS, Ret Pally with BoM, etc, as those are raid buffs which get spread around, a raid leader wants to make sure that everyone is close to the same level, and giving arbitrarily inflated numbers complicates that.

Gahh so many typos, I really wish you could edit posts.. =(

YOu know, my whole problem with the buff/unbuff thing, is the idiots who ask you whats your stats and you say, for example, "I'm 3kdps unbuffed" and get told that its not enough dps, but you know they aren't reading that its UNBUFFED dps >>