Encrypted Text: Everything but Vanish
Every Wednesday, Chase Christian of Encrypted Text invites you to enter the world of shadows, as we explore the secrets and mechanics of the Rogue class. This week, we talk about what's up next for the Rogue class. Hopefully, nothing!While I don't have any official numbers, I think it's easy to say that Rogues are the class that sees the most complaints from others. Crying about Death Knights has been en vogue recently, but we've still got years of threads calling for the complete and utter downfall of every assassin. While all of this negative press has resulted in a few nerfs that nobody was happy with, it seems that Blizzard has chosen to rise above the noise and ensure our slot at the top of both the DPS meters and PvP representation charts.
We went through a spell as the least-played class of WotLK: a level that Rogues had never even approached previously. We were largely middle-of-the-pack in PvE and PvP, with HAT exploits and Glyphed Vigor + Overkill + Mutilate combos barely sustaining us. However, Blizzard heard our cries for a resurrection, and we were reborn in patch 3.1. With the newly minted PPM Poison mechanics adding gobs of nature damage to every spec, and the redesigned Combat tree breathing life into the raiding scene, we're sitting pretty as the #1 DPS class in both Ulduar and the arena. The question that's on my mind now: "What next?"
Blizzard's Q&A Series:
In a move that I find incredibly refreshing, Ghostcrawler and the entire dev team is opening the floor for classes to ask their most important questions. Class design, the game plan for the next few patches, and specific mechanics: they're answering questions of all types. Shamans recently had their comprehensive Q&A discussion completed, and received a lot of interesting feedback and insight into the dev team's plans.
Rogues are currently slated for the next-to-last slot in the Q&A program. I'm sure this is no coincidence, as we're in a very strong place right now. However, this also gives us a few weeks (or months) to consider what questions we would like Blizzard to answer. I started writing a list, but ended up just writing down "Vanish" and "Please let it be us getting axes!" over and over again. It was hinted that either Rogues would be getting to use Axes, or Death Knights would gain access to Fist Weapons. I am unfortunately cynical, and when confronted with question of who will likely get the new weapon skill, I'll quote Vulajin's sarcastic remark: "Hero Class."
Vanish is easily the most talked about spell the Rogue class has ever possessed. Rogues hate using it, everyone else hates when we use it, and the development team can't reproduce any issues with it. I see a hundred posts a day about the futility (or OP factor) of Vanish, and I'm left thinking it may be the only issue remaining with the Rogue class. We're obviously getting brought to raids due to our stellar damage capabilities, and our PvP stats are better than we've ever seen. What should we be asking Blizzard about, when we're working as intended?
Bloodlust:
Shamans, I'm just kidding. I would, however, like some role to play in a raid besides "just do the most DPS and nobody will care otherwise". I've noticed that in Ulduar we've had a few niches, usually interrupting, providing Wound Poison's debuff, or helping a tank generate AoE threat via Tricks of the Trade. Combat now also brings a strong physical damage increase with Savage Combat, and Master Poisoner has ended up being far stronger than Ret's Heart of the Crusader (especially with Fan of Knives to spread it). Add in Feint, Quick Recovery, and the effectiveness of Judgment of Light for us, and we're taking less damage and requiring less healing than anyone else. When we look at the big picture, Rogues actually have a fairly solid role cut out for them in the raiding world.
Sustained damage in PvP:
I've heard a lot about Blizzard's constant nerfs to Overkill and Mutilate really killing the entire viability of Rogues in PvP. When I think about the fact that the new Overkill actually yields more energy than it did previously, and gives Mutilate something in the way of a "cooldown" to use for on-demand damage with Vanish, I have a hard time seeing the complaints. Combat has always had excellent energy regeneration via Combat Potency, and Assassination is incredibly strong with effective use of restealthing. While our survivability in the open still leaves something to be desired, we are simply required to play the game of cat and mouse instead of dog versus dog.
Conclusion:
With a fairly complex class to play in both PvE and PvP, along with multiple viable trees in both environments, Rogues are sitting pretty after patch 3.1. As before, I am simply hoping that leaves us relatively untouched. This will allow us to continue to excel while providing an engaging experience in all areas. So, Blizzard: unless you really want to get your hands dirty and fix Vanish once and for all, feel free to just leave us how we are.
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, (Rogue) Encrypted Text






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Seth Sosebee Jun 17th 2009 2:15PM
As long as some of those axes are slow I'm all for it
ResidentBio Jun 17th 2009 2:22PM
when i see a rogue 3-5 lvl below me vanish, then sneak behind me. and boom im dead... i think we have an issue. My mage felt utterly fail. And yeah i should lvl as a frost mage, but im doing ok with fire spec.
Still i don't spec a toon 3-5 lvls below me to kill me that easly
Worcester Jun 17th 2009 2:33PM
That's exactly how it should work. Do you have any idea how much of a pain it is to move into melee range AND get behind a target? What if I said that I think we have a problem when a certain class can kill me at range? Rogues are so under-rated. We have to get into melee to do any real damage, yet every other melee class gets to wear plate armor.
Oh, and if you can see him, don't turn your back on him.
Alex Yang-Nikodym Jun 17th 2009 9:03PM
You'd get the same result if any other melee DPS class decided they wanted to rip your face off.
ResidentBio Jun 17th 2009 2:44PM
No no. I arrived to this camp flying, i can't remember the name, well he was already vanish(camping), and boom im dead. Ok i see he was 3-5 lvl below me so i tried to take it back, guess what? i couldn't kill him before he was in range and i'm dead.
Now that i think about it, i should have kept in range, but that was because i just not use to pvp, anyway, my point is, a toon many lvls below me shouldn't kill me, but since rogues can freeze or whatever every few seconds they can :(
And that was 15 lvls ago, now i think i have improved regarding pvp
Angus Jun 17th 2009 2:56PM
Resident: You were beaten by someone more skilled than you. Deal with it. You don't deserve an "IWin" button for being higher level. Quit crying about it.
Worcester: "We have to get into melee to do any real damage, yet every other melee class gets to wear plate armor. " Tell it to the Enhance shaman. I'm sure the class with marginally better armor, millions less tricks for getting into melee, no worthwhile CC, and less health will feel really sorry for you. Want to do an exercise in futility? Fight a mage in Wintergrasp, 1 on 1, with 4 stacks of tenacity and still die because you got into melee once. (Wolves were on CD) 45 seconds out of every 3 minutes an Enhance shaman is dangerous. The other 2:15 they are pretty much hosed.
Deargchief Jun 17th 2009 3:03PM
@worchester
Your complaining about getting into melee range even though we cant see u?
Thats a logical fallacy
ResidentBio Jun 17th 2009 3:07PM
Yea i realize he was better, still i felt stupid that day. If i knew he was there i would have kept my distance from the begining since i aint no ganker. Still it was part of my learning curve, lets leave it that way.
Joey Jun 17th 2009 3:12PM
@Angus You were beaten by someone more skilled than you. Deal with it. You don't deserve an "IWin" button for being higher level. Quit crying about it.
Does it really take skill to kill players who can't move? Sure you've got to create macros and hit the right combination of buttons but I'm not sure that's exactly skill. I know this much, I've been killed dozens and dozens and dozens of times by rogues. Each time I was killed I was stunned for most of the fight. In rare cases where I can trinket out of the stun (and the rogue doesn't vanish as they typically do at this point) I generally win the fight. And, guess what? I'm not especially good at PVP.
Are stun and vanish mechanics integral to the class? Absolutely, but it's stretch to assume using them properly takes a whole lot of skill. The same (to a lesser extent) can be said of fear. I play a shadow priest and never once have I confused my ability to fear a player while dotted, talent. I kill them simply because they can't fight back.
Quidamtyra Jun 17th 2009 4:04PM
@Joey: you're saying that using a class's abilities effectively isn't skill. Isn't that what the game is about? Using your abilities to their full potential.
It's the same for a warrior using intercept, a warlock using death coil, a priest using fear... Come on, if you use those at the wrong time they become useless.
If I see I'm going to kill you within the next 6 seconds, yea, I'm going to stun you again. If I see I could use my stun at a better time, I'm going to save it.
elitebrute Jun 18th 2009 1:56PM
Number 1 That "freeze thing" rogues do is called a stun =D btw you can cast a spell called blink to get out of stuns. =D Number 2 you're a clothie. I have a mage who is 80 and I understand what you are trying to whine about... But it just doesn't work... yay you are fire... so you don't have arcanes [slow] or any survive through arc or frost and not much snare or cc at all... You will die! Number 3... If you don't know your class mechanics please don't whine about other class' mechanics... It's all the gms and anyone who goes to the forums see... if you're gonna take the time to write a letter take the same time reading about your class or asking others for advice... The world... of warcraft would be such a better place if people would just take a second and try to find something for them selves rather then whine about it...
ResidentBio Jun 18th 2009 3:55PM
Yey, what about reading my whole message.
1. I'm not into pvp, that does not mean i won't confront any allie i see, it's just that i'll try to avoid it.
2. I do read about mages, what the .. you think im reading down here?(i know its a rogue post, i was just talking about recent experience)
3. I do know that if i was to lvl as frost or even as arcane i would have greater chance to win pvp battles, but i like fire mages, i want to kill fast even if i die trying.
4. I did know about blink, but again, since pvp is not my thing it took me far to long to react to what was going on, actually i had like 5 sec before i was doomed
5. Regarless of all of avove, my point is that i don't spec a toon 3-5 below me to kill with i been able to do anything about it.
6. In anycase, this is how a non pvp would feel, which i believe is still a valid point of view. Just because i do not know everything does not make me stupid as you as a "l337 " player wants to believe
Mindaika Aug 26th 2009 5:00PM
By "every other melee class gets to wear plate", I assume you mean "except shammies and druids," right?
crschmidt Jun 17th 2009 2:19PM
"DPS Meters" and "PVP Charts" link to the same forum post, not two different ones.
Chase Christian Jun 17th 2009 2:22PM
Thanks, this is corrected.
K4ss3r Jun 17th 2009 2:21PM
Great article.
I must say that I agree with the statement, that Rogues are in a fine spot right now. We're not overpowered, nor are we too weak that playing a Rogue feels like a burden. While Mutilate is still the most common spec in Arena, I do see a few others every now and then, and it's good to know that just about every talent tree we have is viable.
Blizzard best keep their nerf-hands off us.
andrew Jun 24th 2009 8:12PM
Dude I know....Honestly...? In the grand scheme of every other class...I'd wager to say we have it pretty good! no. Excellent. We put out mind numbing damage, have one of the best AOE's in the game. Please leave us alone Blizzard. And as far as vanish. Leave it broken. If it keep us "even" I'm all for it.
Worcester Jun 17th 2009 2:26PM
Raid-wide HAT?
Mep Jun 17th 2009 2:31PM
I don't understand, what don't you like about Vanish? I've got a 68 rogue, so I'm not a total noob, but probably only have about 5 days played time on him, so i'm not really good with him yet. I've never found Vanish to be a big deal (except when it's cooling down of course)
Kyo Jun 17th 2009 3:12PM
Some problems with vanish being - gargoyle runs across the arena to hit you out of vanish (after you LoS'd it), images running 50 yards to fireblast you out of vanish, and (more than other pets) ghouls following you in stealth after vanish without returning to their master so that the death knight knows exactly where you are. On another note, the new overkill does not "yield more energy than it did previously" if you didn't waste any GCDs during overkill: +30% Energy over 20 seconds = 60 energy, -10 energy on opener and all moves after vanish for 5 seconds = 60 energy. This is not a buff to energy gain, it is a nerf to burst damage while providing meager compensation over 20 seconds (seeing as how this is world of burstcraft).