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6-17-2009 @ 3:26PM
This column is frustrating to me. The ideas in this column are entirely re-hashed from previous columns or basic rogue complaints since vanilla WoW in the case of vanish. I know that the rogue class can and will come up with more original ideas and questions for the blues.Mostly I find it very disappointing that the poster barely touched on rogue survivability. In my opinion this is clearly our weakness and I don't believe it's a deserved weakness.
6-17-2009 @ 3:33PM
Survivability is a required weakness for us. Here's an example of why:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_26qbwyQq0 It's how our class is meant to be played, kiting in and out of stealth. I use Gouge about 5-6 times an Arena match, and it makes all the difference in the world. If you expect to go toe-to-toe with an opponent as we did in vanilla and TBC, you are not doing it right.The ideas of the Rogue class have no changed much, our rotations are still the same basic concept (build CP, execute finishers), and we are lucky to have one of the best theorycrafting communities of any class. Everything about the Rogue has been broken down into the basic mathematics, and there's really no room for discussion. Anything involving PvE can be solved with 20 minutes and a spreadsheet. Anything involving PvP is not really a great theorycrafting topic, as reaction time / knowledge play a greater role than any "planning".I find that our complex PvE and PvP combat structure (vs say a Ret Paladin) provide a very engaging experience, amongst the best of any class. I wouldn't want this changed, and I embrace the idea that we actually have decisions to make in combat.If you feel there are ideas that we should be discussing, what are they?
6-17-2009 @ 3:42PM
Agreed. The whole article sounds like "Rogues are fine L2P"He talks about Rogues arena success.What about how Rogues have changed from arena damage dealers to "stun duty" so a Mage can nuke them?Forgetting arenas, what about BGs?There's no mention how we only have 6 seconds to kill anyone, and if we don't, that we cross our fingers and hope that vanish works.He makes no comment at all about survivability.Personally I'm sick of having too keep everyone stunlocked to kill them, or I die.Its not fun for anyoneTo me this article reads like it was thrown together at the last second because he forgot to do it.
6-17-2009 @ 3:47PM
Agreed. The whole article sounds like "Rogues are fine L2P"That's exactly what I'm saying, we're fine.He talks about Rogues arena success.What about how Rogues have changed from arena damage dealers to "stun duty" so a Mage can nuke them?Arenas are about teamwork, and the fact that Rogues have great synergy with ranged/caster classes make them very desirable. A class shouldn't stand on its own the arena, it should be a part of a team effort.Forgetting arenas, what about BGs?There's no mention how we only have 6 seconds to kill anyone, and if we don't, that we cross our fingers and hope that vanish works.Rogues CAN kill someone in 6 seconds (actually, 10 FYI), and that's why the class is balanced around it. We're not long-game fighters, and if you are expecting to have long, drawn out duels, you will be disappointed. It's like complaining that Execute is only usable at 20%: it's by design.He makes no comment at all about survivability.Personally I'm sick of having too keep everyone stunlocked to kill them, or I die.Its not fun for anyoneStunlocking is the key to the class. You can't play a melee hunter or play a mage without using any CC spells. I did comment on survivability, saying that it's low and we need to play defensively instead of recklessly.
6-17-2009 @ 3:48PM
Let me put it slightly differently. You are correct that our survivability is a required weakness. However, the degree that it is right now is a little overboard. I wear 700 plus resilience and still die in a stun lock to a fellow rogue, this did not happen prior to WoTLK, whether due to spec differences or gear differences or whatever. It's a little frustrating at the present moment.I also agree that our complex nature is fun and that's why I play a rogue. I never mentioned that, perhaps you were replying to someone else in a passive way as a reply to my post. I hope you can come up with more evidence than 1 youtube video as your backing to say rogues are just fine and we as a community should ignore the opportunity to grill the developers.
6-17-2009 @ 3:49PM
This:"If you expect to go toe-to-toe with an opponent as we did in vanilla and TBC, you are not doing it right."Contradicts this:"The ideas of the Rogue class have no changed much, "Now I don't think we should be Warriors, but the whole design notion of not "stealthed = death", be it for the Rogue or the opponent is idiotic."I find that our complex PvE and PvP combat structure (vs say a Ret Paladin) provide a very engaging experience, amongst the best of any class. I wouldn't want this changed, and I embrace the idea that we actually have decisions to make in combat."Personally I find it very frustrating that I have to play to my best, carefully making every move, with the person playing the Ret bashes 3 keys to greater effect.
6-17-2009 @ 3:51PM
not "stealth = death"Should of read:"not stealthed = death"WTB: Edit feature
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