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6-21-2009 @ 6:09AM
This post disgusts me. Really. It's on of Chase Christian's worst BY FAR. by saying "Rogues are fine" we're encouraging Blizz to stop work on us when there is still work to be done! We got about 5 freaking lines of text in the 3.2 patch notes for christ sakes. Rogues still have major problems that need to be addressed...-Subtlety is a useless tree. It's not viable in either PvE or PvP. I don't think there is another class that currently has this problem. Sub is essentially in the same place as Arcane and Retribution were pre-Wrath, I hope Blizz sees this and buffs sub like it buffed those trees.-Our survivability in PvP is THE LOWEST of all the classes. Period. That needs to change.-Obvious and long standing gripes still need to be addressed. Vanish. Cloak. They're not fixed until they're fixed.And those are just the main issues! Blizzard...you're work isn't over yet...this is how WoW works. You can't just delcare a class "done", especially when you're changing all the classes around it. You NEED to change the class that's "done" simply becuase you've changed the other classes, and the "done" class needs to keep up with those changes. For instance...you gave EVERY CLASS survivability...now Rogues are asking "where's our survivability?" and so on and so forth until the end of freaking time! If 3.2 goes live in the sorry state that it's in I'm not going to be a very happy Rogue.
6-21-2009 @ 3:57PM
Subtlety is just as "useless" as BM hunters, Demonology Warlocks, etc. They're useful and viable, but require specific setups for them to work (see: BM cleave teams). I would much rather have Combat and Assassination be as strong as they are in PvP/PvE than risk balance by buffing Subtlety. Shadowdance still works (yes, even in tournaments) for PvP, and I think that having 5/6 areas balanced (2 specs in PvE, 3 specs in PvP) is progress.Our survivability is the lowest... but someone has to be the lowest. We're never going to wear plate or mail, we're never going to get shields, and we're always going to be squishy. Are you wearing over 1000 resilience? Because that's what healers have to wear. Rogues got content using a couple hundred resilience and just stacking PvE gear. That's no longer the case. We've got a ton of burst, and the trade off is low survivability unless you're wearing full resilience gear (which nearly no Rogue does). Someone has to be the lowest, but it's also the reason we have the best DPS.I believe I mentioned Vanish. Cloak should be 100%, but I've also covered that in a previous article as well.Classes near us are being nerfed (read: DKs, Feral Druids) and there is really no DPS spec being buffed by a ton. We're going to be top dogs in PvE and retain our PvP viability, and I'd rather not look a gift horse in the mouth. If you're at the top, asking for "fixing" is only going to support the waves of people complaining about our strength. I would gladly trade survivability for the burst damage we're capable of. There's no more toe-to-toe, especially since every Rogue wears PvE gear in PvP. We've got to get back to our intended design of quick kills and escapes.
6-22-2009 @ 2:48AM
Yea...more like 3/6 cause any Rogue who isn't an insane top pvper in a tournament is going to spec mutilate/prep for PvP, and are you suggesting that combat is used at all for PvP? Yea, no...try again please. Buffing one spec isn't going to break another spec...you buff one you leave the other alone...is that so hard?I have also played the pvpz...and I've never tried to be a warrior with my Rogue...but our survivability is so low it's disgusting. Ret paladins and DKs have excellent burst (as good or better than a Rogue's) AND have great survivability. While I'm not asking for the survivability of a plate wearing class I would like a bit more so that I can perhaps fight more than one lone opponent at once in the BGs. Buffing the agil/dodge coeffecient would definately help with this...in BC I was around 30% dodge in my PvP gear...now I'm around 22%...I don't know why you're so happy with our burst...since the change to Overkill our burst was nerfed substantially, and we shouldn't completely suck unless we're decked out in Ulduar 25 hard mode epics...
6-22-2009 @ 3:04AM
Combat has been used quite successfully in PvP, check out any highly rated Rogue in 5v5. Adrenaline Rush + FoK really provides such a massive amount of MS debuff + healing pressure that Combat Rogues on 5's are damn near godlike. I've also seen a lot of SD Rogues (who are happy with the change in 3.2, btw)." I would like a bit more so that I can perhaps fight more than one lone opponent at once in the BGs. "You'd like the ability to 1v2 someone? That's not balance. 1v1 also isn't balanced, and apparently according to Blizzard, neither is 2v2 (see 2's patch notes). Your survivability in a duel is irrelevant, as is your ability to 1vN. I remember the days of Rogues taking out waves of opponents via CC, I watched a Ming (or was it Happyminti?) video where he killed about 7 people in Blackrock Mountain with bandaids and potions. It was great to watch, but terrible for balance."I don't know why you're so happy with our burst...since the change to Overkill our burst was nerfed substantially"Yes, our 6 second burst was nerfed, but our 10-20 second burst was buffed in a crazy way. In my opinion, the ability to empty an energy bar, vanish, and be ready to go again 30% quicker is a huge boon to the Rogue class, as a 1-burst-shot scenario is rare and not desirable.
6-22-2009 @ 3:45AM
I see we like quoting...I can quote too..."but our 10-20 second burst was buffed in a crazy way"That does not compute...do you even know what burst is? I wouldn't call a few extra Mutilates over the course of 20 secs crazy...I'd call that healable. Also, how does this line up with..."We've got to get back to our intended design of quick kills and escapes."How does 20 secs = quickly killing someone? That is a virtual eternity in PvP. The Overkill change was a direct nerf to Rogue PvP, why do you think it happened in the first place? Simply becuase we have more energy at the end of the day doesn't mean it was a buff.I'll admit there are some Combat Rogues in PvP...as well as some Sub Rogues...but both are very niche markets and are far from what I'd consider a true PvP specs...I mean...run out and spam FoKs? Wtf is that? the count still stands at 3/6 imo...In closing...yes I do want to be able to 1 v 2 people. I have excellent gear that I have worked my ass off for, and when they run up to me with the Saronite PvP set I should be able to easily overpower them. Instead I spend BGs constantly looking over my shoulder hoping no one comes to assit my victim becuase if so I am completely and utterly screwed 98% of the time.Of course every Rogue wants to "Strike hard and fade away", but the reality is you can only vanish once every 2 mins...
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