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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsRequiring epic achievements for normal runs
by Mike Schramm 
Jun 17th 2009 at 1:00PM
Leafshine echoes a concern I've heard a lot around the community and even here on WoW.com lately: why are some Naxx pickup group organizers requiring the epic achievement on characters joining the raid when they're only running Naxx 10? Sure, we'd all love to have raids full of epic characters, but when you consider that to even get that gear, you have to topple Naxx 25, it seems a little silly to require a raid full of characters that don't actually need the run you're going on.Then again, you could (and probably do) subscribe to the "free market" theory of PuGing: if you think that's silly, don't join that raid, and eventually people who want those requirements won't have anyone to run with (and if they do have people to run with, then apparently even those who have conquered Naxx 25 still want to go back and run 10, for fun or badges or offspec gear or whatever). But that does leave out people who really do need to (and can) run the instances -- just because you don't have a character full of gear from Naxx 25 doesn't mean you can't perform respectably in Naxx 10.
But people who PuG regularly can be pretty cynical, I'd imagine, and so most of them would rather be safe (and take people who are overgeared) than sorry (and stuck in a bad group with people who don't belong). All the more reason to find a solid guild, or at least make your reputation in a raiding group. It does seem a little out of whack to require higher achievements than the content you're raiding, but as long as people are still joining those raids, PuGers will keep requiring that level of gear.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Virtual selves, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 6)
Naix Jun 17th 2009 2:51PM
Why do people want a group full of people who don't need anything from Naxx to run Naxx. Do these same people need roll on their level 80 char when running their fiends in SM runs?
Naxx 10 = Little harder 5 man heroic. Yes you can rock the blues and do well in Naxx 10.
lilrabbit129 Jun 17th 2009 4:33PM
Its funny but on my pally, I was ulduar-25 geared before I got the Epic achievement. This was mainly because I was still wearing Vengeance Bindings ( which according to maxdps is better than quite a few naxx-10/25 epics).
That might be a bit of a contrived example as to why doing just this achievement to rate readyness would not work.
Tomnationwide Jun 17th 2009 3:03PM
There's nothing wrong with this. Some people prefer more well geared players and LFG is not a catch as catch can place. If someone is leading a group and wants a certain group they are entitled and if they don't get it they will stop.
Naix Jun 17th 2009 3:04PM
Or until they realize that is they try and run raids like this no one is going to want to play with them.
Tomnationwide Jun 17th 2009 3:05PM
Oh btw requiring only our best guild members the other day for a quick burn through to gear up one player resulted in a well geared player AND 2 new achievements.
kabes Jun 17th 2009 3:18PM
Wow, what a dumb requirement. I have THIRTEEN equipped pieces of Ulduar 25 loot and I still dont have the Epic achievement. Why? Because of my trinkets. Greatness and Mirror. Greatness is better than any trinket in the game and Mirror is only a few dps below Ulduar trinkets for me (hunter).
I have like 10 best in slots plus 4 piece tier 8.5 and I couldn't get into this guy's Naxx 10 if I wanted to? LOL.
TEJ Jun 17th 2009 3:39PM
Grim Toll. FotFF. Bandit's. Wrathstone. Mjolnir Runestone.
Don't tell me you couldn't get those.
Kay Jun 17th 2009 7:12PM
@TEJ
You're confusing "can't get" with "do not want". He's saying the items he has are BiS or imperceptably below BiS pre-Ulduar for his class and spec despite not meeting the epic achievement ilevel requirements.
Reading comprehension is awesome.
frailnail666 Jun 17th 2009 3:41PM
TBH this is getting out of controle, there are still people around that havent even completed naxx 10 or 25, but wont ever get the chance with a pug as no one ever wants to go with someone who has never been before. linking achievments is one f the worst things iv ever seen happen to this game, and tbh its killing the fun that this games used to have
ash Jun 17th 2009 4:05PM
This is very similar to when people try to pug a Naxx 10 and say you should know the fight. Isn't Naxx 10 supposed to be the entry level raid? I don't understand how people can really have these expectations. Who do they expect to be running these instances anyways. Obviously, requiring epic achievements for normal runs equals fail. I wonder, from reading some of these responses how many of these groups are put together by people who don't meet the criteria themselves.
Bossy Jun 17th 2009 4:07PM
Everytime I play with my Rogue and am not allowed in a PUG, I note the name.
The next time that name asks for a healer I stick up a big fat finger with my epic Ulduar Paladin.
Revenge is so sweet.
And which idiot at the staff of Blizzard put VOA2 in the same instance as VOA1 ???
At least they could correct that in patch 3.2, so that "normal" characters can also have a little fun with a free lottery ticket.
Asking for Achievements for VOA2 means NO new characters will ever get to do VOA1 again.
artifex Jun 18th 2009 12:49AM
"Asking for Achievements for VOA2 means NO new characters will ever get to do VOA1 again."
At the end of the play week all kinds of pugs form, with people who couldn't get into earlier ones. Monday nights, hours before the reset, you can even find Ulduar pugs.
Dreadskull Jun 17th 2009 4:07PM
It's kind of obvious: PuG leaders for Naxx 10 either want to try to do the "hard mode" achievements or they want better geared people to help carry them through the raid and not have to worry as much about them rolling on items that drop.
Kay Jun 17th 2009 4:10PM
An annoying trend I've noticed cropping up on my home server is people asking for dps numbers for pugs Naxx10/25 and VoA.
Now, this may seem reasonable at first, but follow me into the details.
They're not asking for a WWS report link. No, no, that would be too useful (if a bit overzealous to expect of someone going to naxx10 who may never have raided before to -generate- a wws report.)
No, they just want you to -tell- them your numbers.
Because noone can lie about this.
Seriously.
vazhkatsi Jun 17th 2009 4:33PM
Meh, for some classes the epic achievement is rather difficult to achieve if you don't want to pick up useless gear. for instance, the BiS totem for resto shamans pre ulduar is an ilevel 120ish one from level 74 in grizzly hills pvp. all the epic ones until ulduar are mana cost ones, and prior to 3.1 mana wasn't really a problem at all. so i have all ilevel 213 gear except shoulders and totem, when i finally picked up the 213 dps totem last week, and still have to get new shoulders. btw, i've cleared to mimiron in ulduar10 and to freya in 25, gotten a few drops, and this character is an alt.
course if you want to flame my mains gear, my username is my character, the only one on armory.
megamogx Jun 17th 2009 5:31PM
Gear means nothing when its in hands of nubs...
Sunra Jun 17th 2009 5:35PM
This was mainly my problem. To get into raid on my server you need to be overgeared. I had to wear a lot of BiS gear from heroics to get into 10man naxx. Loot from there would be *GASP* +20 mana and +3 spellpower difference to my heroic epics, so useful! But wait. You cant raid because you havent raided! We dont care if you have watched every bosskill video 10 times, you dont have achi. So either look for pug that doesnt reguire achi and will mostly take whole day.
Wich reminds me. Just because you have achi it doesnt prove anything. I was in Naxx25 pug where everyone had achievement. Guys wiped 3 flopping hours on patchwerk. The pug have been up for 3 days before that and cleared 2 quarters. When we finally get to thaddius next day we wiped on thadd for FIVE HOURS till we gave up. That should be achi
LadySDevil Jun 17th 2009 6:05PM
Ok, most aren't going to like my comments.
If I want badges for BOA gear, the Mount, offset or gems, I don't want to spend all trying to complete the run. Why do so many think it's wrong to want to run with others on the same progression scale? Why do so many think it's ok to expect to be carried?
If you don't have the achievements, form your own run and let in others that don't have the achievements. Then all of you can get the achievements together.
Anthony Jun 17th 2009 6:08PM
It is so easy to fake an achievement link, google it.
I have a disc priest and prot tank in Ulduar and i still get rejected from Naxx10 runs on my Rogue because "you don't have the achievement, you don't know the fight."
So i just open notepad, create the string, link my fake achievement and lol when we down KT and i get the achievement.
strikersully Jun 17th 2009 6:32PM
This is insane. I am currently progressing through both 10 and 25 man Ulduar, pulling my weight (and then some, especially in 10 man) and I don't have the achievement. Yes, good gear is necessary. But player skill can certainly be more important than the numbers when it comes to this situation.