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6-17-2009 @ 2:22PM
Heh. Yeah. A lot of the Naxx raids I see advertised on Hydraxis either say "gear checks" or the ever popular "must know the fight". Okay genius, tell me how I'm supposed to learn the fight if no one will take me in because I don't know the fight? Good raiders don't just magically metamorphose into that when they hit 80. They all go through the same process of trial and error on new content (no one cleared Ulduar in the first few weeks, now did they?) but then when they get to the point of being geared and recruiting people for runs they're arrogant enough to only want to include people who already know everything rather than being willing to help some new moderately-geared people learn the mechanics of the fight so that they can become good assets in raids.I have little problem with gear checking, in so much as I usually use it as a criteria of people to keep an eye on - they might take a little more damage, or not do enough DPS, or may need to be replaced if they completely aren't working out. But I wouldn't use it as an exclusionary measure unless the gear was so far below par (I'm talking trying to walk into Naxx in gear below level 75-77 with no enchants and/or gems) that it's clear they don't even make an effort.Remember, there are critical things that you can't know simply by looking at someone's armory page or wow-heroes analysis page. Like the fact that someone's on dial-up and gets disconnected frequently. Or that someone has kids and might have to randomly AFK with no notice mid-fight. Or the fact that someone might be a loot-ninjaing douchebag. The lack of gear and lack of knowing the fight can all be dealt with in advance to some degree. These other factors are completely beyond the control or knowledge of the raid leader and can as easily, if not more easily, lead to the wipe or abandonment of a raid in progress.Heroic raid achievements are so dependent on what the other 24 people in your group feel like doing that using them as a standard of measure is pretty ridiculous. Whenever we're running heroic instances, there's always debate about whether to try for an achievement or not on bosses. Often the consensus is no because people aren't wiling to wipe on the attempt. People shouldn't be penalized for not having these achievements because the group they're with isn't willing to go for them.So to the habitual gear and achievement and "know the fight" checkers, beware. You'll eventually lose a large base of people who will be willing to PUG with you because your standards are too high. By the time you realize this, most of them will be with other guilds and when your "leet" raiding guild falls apart for whatever reason, good luck finding room in another with your attitude.
6-17-2009 @ 2:50PM
LFM Naxx 25 != LFM to carry through Naxx 25If you don't know how the fights work in Naxx 25, and can't take the 5 minutes it takes to look it up on the Interweb, then you don't deserve to walk into a Raid.Stick to 5-mans.
6-17-2009 @ 4:04PM
The fact that all these other problems exist does not invalidate the idea that a PuG raid leader should check other things. While I personally feel that requiring Epic for any t7 content is absurd (I am not close to that and was 3rd on DPS in 25 OS +1 PuG last night on my pally), it is not unreasonable to do basic gear check or ask that the person has at least read about the fight on the internet. If you can't be bothered to read up on bosses, why would I think that you have bothered to learn how to play your class right?If you really dont want to read about fights ahead of time, look for a guild that goes in to fights blind as part of their policy.
6-17-2009 @ 4:17PM
@ danawhitakerYour logic is so flawed I cannot stop "loling" I knew all the fights in Naxx well before I hit 80 and did not ever run it in Vanilla WoW. Why? Because I took the time to look them up and watch strat videos online. They say, "must know fights." Then I say, "I wanna go, I know the fights." Done. They don't quiz me or ask to link achievements. Why? Because even if I don't have the achievements on the toon, maybe it is my alt and I do in fact know all the fights.Also, it is GREAT they gear check. I don't want to get saved to a raid where people are in greens and trying to be carried through. It isn't some raid leader trying to be an elitist, they just don't want an 80 in the full crafted lvl 78 pvp set trying to run Naxx 10 (although I have seen people run it in that gear and do over the required DPS). "So to the habitual gear and achievement and 'know the fight' checkers" WILL continue to get people in their raids because it shows they are semi competent in putting together a raid in the first place if they care about what players they are taking, not just the first 9/24 tells they get.
6-17-2009 @ 4:23PM
Could not have put it better myself.
6-17-2009 @ 4:47PM
@Swampsquatch - That may have worked when you first hit 80. Nowadays, at least on my server, they don't care if they say you know the fight. They just want to see the heroic achievement - wether you're running 10 or 25 man. My alts have been denied dozens of raid slots, even though geared for that particular raid, even though i've done the fights 20 times over on my main, the alt doesn't have the achv, so the alt doesn't get to go. That's it.
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