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6-18-2009 @ 4:08AM
Damn I really don't understand the whole achievement whine. It is raid leader's right to check people before accepting them into a PuG, and noone forces you to join. Achievement is the best, but not perfect way, to check a person's experience within the instance. Ever tried to make a PuG group for 25 man, or even 10 man raid? You know how hard is it to lead and you don't want to take people who will die at first void zone. Some raid leader's actually want to make group that will clear Naxx in 3 hours, not making a group that after 7 hours of raiding will decide to disband at 4h/Thadd. I've tried to make a PuG for OS10 0 drakes without asking people for achievement/gear. We've killed 2 drakes and people started to leave after wipe on 3rd drake, while I've pugged 3 drakes (zerg-mode) with a PuG too. People who don't have achievement and want to get into PuG are USUALLY just terribads who were able to find groups with people like themsleves which gave up at Anub'rekahn and want to get carried by 24/9 other people.But ofcourse I will get downrated because on this site people downrate others' constructive comments just because someone got other opinion than you.
6-18-2009 @ 6:26AM
I have some sympathy with your position but, as others have pointed out, frequently the people asking for specific achievements or gear levels do not match their own requirements. It's like when you see messages saying "LFG HoL lvl80 only" and find that it comes from a level 77 rogue.I also have to wonder how the people who ask other people to link achievements got their own achievements in the first place, since apparently one is not qualified to run a raid until one has already run it. If they went in with their guild, why aren't they *still* doing guild runs, and if they went in in a PuG, then isn't it rather hypocritical to make demands of other people that were not made of them?
6-18-2009 @ 7:32AM
Ofcourse if raid leader requires achievement/epic gear for raid and doesn't have it himself, he's retarded. Same goes for "lfm 4 the horde 80 lvls only", "lfm sunwell achi run 80 lvls only" coming from 7x level. Requiring from others having more than you have yourself is just stupid. Also I think requiring the "Epic" achievement isn't good way to make groups, people can have full Ulduar25/hardmode gear and they'll still can miss 1 part because item with lower ilvl got better itemization, and people with this achievement can just have PvP gear (Deadly/WG items), swap their rings and trinkets, oor just get this achievement by wearing offspecc gear, or items to disenchant. Also requiring achievement for let's say Naxx25 for Naxx10 is imo ridicolous, same goes for "Twilight Zone" to get into OS 0d pug.
6-18-2009 @ 10:54AM
Of course it's the raid leader's right to demand whatever entry requirements he likes, but that doesn't mean he's not stupid for demanding ridiculous requirements.Now as several people have pointed out, there are perfectly valid reasons why a raid leader would want overgeared/overqualified people in his run, from farming emblems to speed runs to gearing up him or one of his friends in the raid. If someone in my guild was putting together a run like that, I'd gladly help them out. The problem is that it's silly to expect the same from people PUGing a raid in LFG. People are GENERALLY in LFG looking to run things to gear up, not because they are uber players with nothing better to do than help out in your run. If that's what you're looking for, there are plenty of guilds willing to do that kind of thing for their members.That's not to say there should be NO requirements for PUGs, especially raids, but the discussion here seems to be about requirements above and beyond what's reasonable. Wanting to get people who will do more DPS than the tank or not stand in void zones is a lot different from asking for people who have MUCH better gear than is required for the instance.
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