Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsBattleground leveling and experience changes in Patch 3.2: Twinks v. Twinks
by Adam Holisky 
Jun 18th 2009 at 2:50PM
- You will be able to level through PvP Battlegrounds
- You will be able to turn off experience gains
The second major change is the ability to turn off this experience gain in Battlegrounds and the rest of WoW (at a cost of 10g). This means that twinks are a viable and supported option in WoW, and lets those players who want to sit in the 30s bracket enjoy it to their heart's content.
Additionally, if you have turned off experience gains, you'll be placed in separate battlegrounds from those that have them turned on. That means that twinks will play against other twinks, and not against those players who are just interested in the bracket from a more casual perspective.
The floodgates of Patch 3.2 are wide open now. Enjoying it?
Patch 3.2 will bring about a new 5, 10, and 25 man instance to WoW, and usher in a new 40-man battleground called the Isle of Conquest. WoW.com will have you covered every step of the way, from extensive PTR coverage through the official live release. Check out WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.2 for all the latest!Filed under: News items, PvP, Battlegrounds
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
Nate Jun 21st 2009 10:14PM
new 20 minute timer on Wsg so i'm hoping there won't be too much farming *crosses fingers*
Radiophonic Jun 18th 2009 3:57PM
Because yeah, two pieces of t8 from conquest badges = a whole set rite?
Frank Jun 18th 2009 4:04PM
so now twinks will be off in their own BG? awesome.
micgillam Jun 18th 2009 4:07PM
I don't think anyone else mentioned it, but won't this maybe revitalize certain low-level instances too? I mean, many-a-twink has come from having a level-capped friend run them till they got their stuff, but if people starting their twinks can run all they want without fear of leveling, I can see getting WC groups a little more easily with people just trying to collect the Fang set.
Jason Jun 18th 2009 4:15PM
Uhg. I'm not too thrilled about this. I do like how you can turn off ALL exp gains, but now people are going to be in BGs all the time. Why quest when you can get marks of honor/honor points/exp all at once?
crschmidt Jun 20th 2009 11:00AM
They've said that levelling through pvp will be "somewhat slower than questing at the same level." Personally, if I'm trying to level as quickly as possible, I expect this isn't going to be it -- in the same way that I don't run instances when I want to level as fast as possible, because it's faster to do quests.
At level 65, questing as a hunter gives me about 125k XP/hour. Instances run about 80k-100k depending on the group. (I'm PUGging, so it can be wildly variable -- and if I include the time spent looking for a group/getting to the instance, the whole dynamic changes.) I wouldn't be surprised to find that AB/EOTS etc. give approximately the same -- 80k-100k per hour of playing. Overall, you'll probably be somewhat lower (depending on your play time) because you have to factor in queue time as well.
Also, there are people who really just don't like PvP, or Battlegrounds. I highly doubt that you're going to see massive numbers of people deserting to BGs.
I'm just happy that on a weekend day when all I feel like doing is capping nodes and defending, I can actually get some XP while I'm at it... and even more happy that I don't have to be in a twink battleground anymore.
Jason Jun 18th 2009 4:57PM
Even still. Questing/grinding/running instances are what we do to level. Adding BG's into the mix makes BG's probably the most worthwhile way. Again, being able to get honor/marks/exp at the rate of instances is wonderful. Just questing and grinding probably yeilds the fastest EXP, but the gear you get probably won't be as great. Running instances can net you goo gear, but isn't quite as fast. BG's have semi good gear (from turning in marks) as well as exp that's about on par with instances. I always though "quests for exp, instances for gear, BG's for honor" but now you can get all three from BG's...
micgillam Jun 18th 2009 5:10PM
Back in the old battleground system, you used to be able to turn in marks for XP. Plenty of people still quested and ran dungeons then.
Jason Jun 18th 2009 5:12PM
The old battleground system was really good, if you ask me. I started WoW after they removed it, but if you could turn in your marks for EXP, then you aren't really getting honor, marks, AND exp. Just honor and exp.
micgillam Jun 19th 2009 4:12PM
Yeah, the hard side of the old system is that you had to work at maintaining your rank. You had to commit to doing battlegrounds every week, otherwise some of that PVP gear you bought wouldn't be useable anymore.
DesertFox82 Jun 18th 2009 4:18PM
I think the xp-shutoff switch has some interesting uses independent of battlegrounds, but most of my ideas have been mentioned here already. I know there's no reason to expect it, but I'd love to have quest xp turned into gold like the level 80s do when our xp is shut off. I'd love to see on-level dungeon groups become more common, I'm very happy to see the twinks can now min/max each other into oblivion. I would like some more information about the amounts of xp that can be earned in battlegrounds, but I guess I'll have to wait with everyone else for the PTR to drop.
Gorevinor Jun 18th 2009 4:53PM
Additionally this opens up new achievement opportunities, let alone old ones!
- Conquer an instance/raid at a lower level
- We can get those removed mounts like Amani War Bear and Proto-drakes if the character and item level of each participating player is audited, now more doable if the xp gain is turned off
- And other strange achievements!
Anubiss Jun 18th 2009 4:53PM
I think some of you have the wrong impression of twinks. The majority of the twinks I play with did not twink there toon simply so that they could be OP and stomp all over casual pvpers. We twinked because we want to test the limits. We want to compete at the top of our game just like a RL athlete would. We twink to have a fighting chance against other twinks. These changes will not kill twinking any more then the removal of leg enchants and librams did. Twinks will always be around so long as players are willing to do what is needed to create them. And with the ability to q up from anywhere we will just sit outside of org now and duel each other or q up for arena skirmshes in the downtime. For those of you who hate twinks I'm sorry, I didnt mean to 1 shot you I probably didnt even notice your level until after you were dead you were just in my path while on my way to the next objective. I predict low level BG's will thrive and the number of twinks will rise, Druids and Shammy in travel form at 16 etc. Lets have some fun and stop all the QQing.
micgillam Jun 18th 2009 5:21PM
@Anubiss
"The majority of the twinks I play with did not twink there toon simply so that they could be OP and stomp all over casual pvpers. We twinked because we want to test the limits. We want to compete at the top of our game just like a RL athlete would."
Steroid joke aside, that may be the majority of the twinks you play with, but I think if you could get an *honest* poll from all twinks, about 70% of them would honestly say the main reason they did it was either to "stomp all over casual pvpers" or "to have a fighting chance against other twinks."
In fact, imagine some of the earliest twinks did it because they were tired or getting pwnd in the battlegrounds because they weren't very good at it without the advantage. My view on that may be because I've put down many twinks in the battlegrounds on my untwinked toons in a straight up fight, even though they had all the advantages. That to me is an indicator that many of them aren't as good as I am, and I would put myself above average but there are plenty of better PVPers around.
Either way, I think we can both be happier with this set of (pending) changes, and I would guess about 70% of twinks won't be upset about this at all (those that do it for the reasons your group does, including the overlapping section of those that did it to have a fighting chance.
Siddown Jun 20th 2009 3:34AM
@micgilliam
I like it how you feel you can place tens of thousands of people into tiny little buckets where they all have identical motives. Are all twinks overweight virgins who live in their parents basement too?
The reality is, people twink for a host of different reasons, and most that I know actually did prefer to fight other twinks, they'd seek them out in fact. But there were some that did it for the reasons you mentioned, so they could wtfpwn someone, but I don't think I could ever put a number on it. More importantly, why bother? They play the game their way, you play it your way.
micgillam Jun 22nd 2009 3:32PM
@Siddown
Side-effect of MMOs... when their way of playing affects the way other people HAVE to play, that effect can be positive or negative, or it can be neutral. In this case, I think overall the fact that twinks have made the lvl 19, and to a lesser extent the lvl 29 battlegrounds impossible for most players to compete in *without* sinking an (imo) unreasonable amount of gold into it is a negative effect.
"The reality is, people twink for a host of different reasons, and most that I know actually did prefer to fight other twinks, they'd seek them out in fact. But there were some that did it for the reasons you mentioned, so they could wtfpwn someone,[...]"
That host of different reasons, is really just a handful of different reasons, and I think pretty much covered them with 3 groups, as I addressed them above, and if you have another viable motive for twinking, I'll be happy to hear and discuss it further.
"[...]but I don't think I could ever put a number on it."
I can, and I did. Mind you it's a rough estimate based on my experience, but it's my experience over several years and in multiple battlegroups. I'm not assuming any of them did it just to wtfpwn people who didn't stand a chance *except* those that conveyed it, in most cases by HK farming for 10-20 minutes with a twink premade against a group with 2 or fewer twinks, in other cases it was conveyed through emotes or by the fact that they apparently AFK'd out when they realized it was going to be an easy win and they were going to die a lot. Also, I can usually tell when a twink is using gear/enchants to cover a lack of skill or a lack of knowledge of how his/her class works.
And those are the ones that are going to QQ about this change, or quit playing their twinks, or quit the came completely.
However, it's entirely likely that back when battlegrounds weren't cross-server and the first few people started putting enchants on their lowbies and overgearing them for PvP, when they hadn't really run across twinks in the battlegrounds on the other side (at least not regularly), this is the sort of idea that someone would come up with/implement because they were looking for an unfair advantage. It don't think you can reasonably rebut that. The player that were good enough to do well regularly wouldn't likely be looking for an unfair advantage. I think that makes perfect sense.
So, with these set of changes, those that are twinking for more honorable reasons will be helped along in making it easier for them to fight other twinks exclusively, and help along in not having to worry about leveling over in the process of getting gear. So it's great for them. At the same time, it won't be reasonable any longer for someone to park a twink in the battlegrounds *and* have them compete with regular (untwinked) characters that they can pwn the $#!% out of, so it's good for them too.
"I like it how you feel you can place tens of thousands of people into tiny little buckets where they all have identical motives."
Last post, I gave you tens of thousands of people in 3 buckets, which fit quite nicely. Now I'll effectively generalize them into 2 buckets, the twinks that like this change, and the twinks that don't. Those that don't like it were jerks that just wanted to pwn people who couldn't fight back. Those who do like it are those who want to run twinks against twinks, and I don't have a problem with them in the slightest.
james Jun 18th 2009 4:46PM
can you turn off experience from questsw and mobs and the like?
if so people could almost have there vanilla realms as long as they avoid tbc gear and no 40 man naxx
vazhkatsi Jun 18th 2009 4:59PM
omg. this means i can twink out at 60 in epix. woot. and then do the long quest chains for uber loot.
Osc Jun 18th 2009 7:37PM
Two pieces from badges plus two pieces from a joke five minute raid (Emalon) does equal a full set so yeah its a full set.
Clbull Jun 18th 2009 7:32PM
This idea could potentially equal win.
Well depending on how much xp you can ACTUALLY gain from Battlegrounds, and whether it can extend to World PvP objectives or not. If it means that questing will no longer be a requirement to level then I am all for it.
If it means that the people who geninely want to PvP their way to 80 don't get owned by an overpowered twink who is one shotting them all with all blue/epic gear, then I am up for it.