Patch 3.2 changes the tiered Emblem system
There are a lot of things in the patch 3.2 test realm notes that jumped out at me, but the changes to the Emblem system seem like an especially big deal. The developers made it quite clear that they wanted a tiered token system in Wrath of the Lich King, they didn't want players just farming Heroics all day and night to get the best possible gear. In patch 3.2, it looks like they're backing off on that pretty heavily, likely an attempt to reignite interest in running Heroics. If you haven't seen the patch notes, here are the points I'm referring to:- Any dungeons that previously dropped Emblems of Heroism or Valor, such as Naxxramas or Heroic Halls of Stone, will now drop Emblems of Conquest instead. Emblems of Conquest can still be converted to Valor or Heroism.
- Both the 10 and 25 player instances of the Crusaders' Coliseum drop a new Emblem of Triumph.
- The heroic dungeon daily quest will now reward 2 Emblems of Triumph and the normal daily dungeon quest will reward 1 Emblem of Triumph.
- The existing achievements to collect 1, 25, 50, etc. Emblems of Heroism, Valor, and Conquest have been converted to Feats of Strength since Heroism and Valor Emblems are no longer attainable.
So taking all of this into consideration, a player could theoretically get 4 pieces of Tier 8 gear without ever setting foot into Ulduar, simply by grinding out Heroics and getting a couple of lucky drops from Emalon. To get the Tier 8 hat and gloves, you would need a combined total of 116 badges. At roughly four badges per Heroic, that's just shy of 30 Heroics. That sounds like a lot, but when you take into consideration how people got their gear in The Burning Crusade, it really sort of... isn't a lot at all. This is a big step away from what the developers stated they want to do, but as I said, I imagine it's a change made in the interest of encouraging people to continue running Heroics.
Of course, Conquest badges won't be the best of the best in patch 3.2, because we're getting our hands on Emblems of Triumph, the new Tier 9 badges. However, they're doing something differently here, too: Both 10man and 25man versions of the Tier 9 raids will drop the same Emblems, there is no longer a split. That means the 10man version of the raids will be able to get their hands on the same iLevel gear as the 25man version, unless there's some crazy black magic afoot that we won't get to see until we're on the PTR ourselves.
Of course, Emblems aren't even limited to the Tier 9 raids. Someone who has never stepped foot in a raid in their lives can get Tier 9 badge rewards if they're dedicated enough. The daily dungeon quests hand out Emblems of Triumph one or two at a time depending on your chosen difficulty. Someone who has never touched a raid can eventually get Tier 9 badge loot. Heck, someone who has never touched a Heroic can get Tier 9 badge loot. It will just take awhile. If current badge loot is any indicator of the cost of Tier 9 gear, it will take them around 60 days of doing the daily to get a piece of tier gear. That's a long enough time to justify that, I think.
So is this all bad? In the case of the Emblem of Conquest change, I don't think it's bad given the game's current landscape. People aren't running Heroics, and they need to be given a reason to do so. Letting them get Emblems of Conquest will give them reason to do those dungeons. I don't think it's the best possible solution and I hope they come up with something better for the next expansion, but for now? This is probably a good move. Wrath of the Lich King really does not encourage people to do 5-mans, so hopefully this will do it.
In the case of Emblems of Triumph, there doesn't seem to be a 10/25 man split. I've already heard theories that this means there won't be different loot for 10 and 25man raids, but it's far too early to start screaming about that, either for it or against it. Maybe we'll see something like 10man raids getting fewer badges than 25man raids, so it takes the 10man raid longer to get 25man equivalent gear? We don't know, and while this change seems weird, I can't immediately say it's bad. My opinion could quickly change upon seeing the implementation.
Like I said, I see the Emblem of Conquest change as a quick fix, a temporary solution. You can't get the best of the best gear with Emblems of Conquest in patch 3.2, but it's still going to encourage the behavior they initially wanted to discourage. They absolutely need to get people running Heroics again, but is this the way to do it? Long term, I don't think so. Short term, yeah, I can agree with it.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to calculate roughly how many Heroics and Emalon kills I'll need to get all of my alt 4-piece Tier 8. Add the seven, carry the four, divide by three...
Patch 3.2 will bring about a new 5, 10, and 25 man instance to WoW, and usher in a new 40-man battleground called the Isle of Conquest. WoW.com will have you covered every step of the way, from extensive PTR coverage through the official live release. Check out WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.2 for all the latest!Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Raiding
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 14)
Ryan Jun 18th 2009 4:57PM
It's not that I'm a "hardcore" player whining that everyone else gets to catch up, it's the issue of a fair system of rewards matching the effort. Granted it's just a video game but getting to and downing Yogg is not the same as running 5 man heroics. The incentive to push yourself to put the time and effort into raiding is getting better gear. Sure, if you don't have the time or desire to put that time/effort for the hardest encounters then you should have to deal with not having the best gear. To give a real life example, what would be the motivation to put the time and effort into getting a law degree if you could work at taco bell and make the same amount of money?
dukrous Jun 18th 2009 5:03PM
Because at the end of the day, this is a game, and it should be fun for as many people as possible, not the small percentage doing deep dives into Ulduar.
havitech Jun 18th 2009 5:13PM
@jfofla
This isn't a casual vs. hardcore issue. This is an issue over heroics being underpopulated, and therefore new players hit a roadblock trying to get into raids. Don't try to make it something its not.
(FYI, people in raids usually outnumber people in heroics, on my server anyways. Just because YOU don't want to spend a certain amount of time and effort ingame earning rewards, doesn't mean you're the majority and that the game should be tailored to meet your desires. You sound just as self-concerned and obnoxious as the "vocal hardcores" that you're complaining about.)
sam Jun 18th 2009 7:01PM
@Ryan
your example falls apart in that one person can't down a heroic and get a T8 the same that someone can down Yogg and get one.
A better example would be "you put in the time and effort to get a law degree to earn in one day someone who works at taco bell earns in a month".
Ryan Jun 18th 2009 5:24PM
I don't think the game should be tailored to me as a raiding player though. I understand from a business sense wanting to appeal to as many of your customers as possible, that's just smart business. To me it just seems like it takes away the appeal to run certain raid instances. With this system Naxx will be completely skipped over by new level 80 characters and potentially even Ulduar. Even I'm less inclined to run Ulduar now because if there's a far easier alternative, where's the motivation? And I'm far from "hardcore" at this point. I play about an hour or two a day at best maybe three or four days a week and because of that I don't have any gear beyond 10/25 man Naxx. So why then should I be awarded Ulduar gear when I haven't earned it?
Plan Jun 18th 2009 6:35PM
"Well, one could say - If you don't plan on raiding, then why the hell do you need iLvL 226 gear? They would be justified in saying that, but if you want to stand around Dal and pretend your Leet then who am I to stop you?
For me personally, this change will help me get back into raiding. I quit the game about 5 months ago, and now I have fallen behind the gear curve. I am an experienced raider from pre-nerf T6 to competitive hard mode kills before I quit, and this gives me the chance to catch up and get myself back into raiding."
You're not "leet" no matter which gear you wear, and if you think you are, you have major self-esteem issues. The difference between a good player and bad player is whether or not they survive the fight and CONTRIBUTE TO THE RAID, and has little to do with the damage or healing meters and the gear that influences those meters.
I also quit raiding for several months and mostly just mess around with PvP a couple hours a week, but I still get tells from people all the time asking me to join their runs. Why do they ask me, if I am still in pre-Ulduar gear and everyone I used to out-DPS can now out-DPS me? Because they know if they do Sarth 3D, I will still be standing at the end of the fight. They know 99% of the time I'll go through every boss fight in an instance and be among those still standing and contributing to the raid. They know I can be relied upon to do interrupts, to lead the melee positioning, to run to overcharged adds quickly, etc. None of that has a damn thing to do with my gear.
The great downfall of this game is fools like you who think you have to deprive other people of the same content and items you get, because otherwise you would not feel "special." People like you need a psychological evaluation, and Blizzard needs to stop catering to you.
Raz Jun 18th 2009 9:49PM
Skill & determination should make the raider.
If you're too inept to check for achievements or figure out who's not [holding aggro/healing proper targets/doing enough damage/alive at the end of the encounter] instead of just checking for tier pieces, remember that even now countless morons who stand in the fire or stack for Emalon's chain lightning are still getting tier pieces as you read this.
I see this as a nice way for up & coming skilled players to catch up to the rest of us so they don't spend 2 to 3 months as dead weight while we throw as many drops as we can spare at them. At least this way, if they do poorly because they suck, they'll have decent enough gear for you to notice before you give them too many hard earned items.
Squeek Jun 19th 2009 6:51AM
I wasn't sure where to put this, but it seems like a lot of people who are whining about the fact that casuals will be getting 'their' gear are missing a huge piece of the puzzle here.
You can buy two tier pieces and 3 pieces of i226 with Conquest Emblems--some of which might not even benefit your spec at all, so in the end, 2 pieces of tier.
Now, can anyone tell me how 2 pieces of tier and maybe some extra pieces = all of Ulduar's loot table? Weapons? Offhands? Trinkets? Rings? Relics?
You're grabbing at straws if you honestly believe this is going to invalidate all the work you've put into raiding. All this does is give them a leg-up. Maybe your friend hit 80 and you want to bring him into your raid but he's undergeared so you tell him to run Heroics while you're raiding. In the end, he's still not going to get geared enough unless you run him through the previous tier of raids, which you might not have time for if you're working on progression of the current tier. So, they never get the opportunity to raid with you just because they joined the game / hit 80 "too late". "QQ MOAR LEVEL TO 90 FASTER IN THE NEXT EXPANSION" mirite?
Chirri Jun 20th 2009 2:47PM
To me, I'm thinking of two different side effects to this sort of change:
1) Hardcores who are in it for the gear will be gearing up through a combination of raiding and the Heroics, taking the easy way, because their iLevel is where they figure out how long a stroke they can give themselves.
2) Instance servers, which were already causing issues to begin with, will continue to be utterly decimated by the player population. With Tier gear on the line, I imagine player response may become slightly more heated than it currently is.
I'm a raider. I'm not sure I'd call myself hardcore, since it's twice a week. But we're getting stuff down, and it's been fun(ish... GTFO the fire/ice). To me, this doesn't seem like an intuitive sort of change. As much as people can cry out about Casuals vs Hardcore, even Naxx has become the bastion of casuals. Casuals wanted raiding, and now they have it. I could understand making the change to current raiding content, but including the Heroics seems like it's one step beyond where things need to go.
The last few times I even tried doing heroics, we couldn't get any new instances to launch. At least Naxx will let you in.
Bronwyn Jun 19th 2009 10:11PM
@Ryan- When you tank into account how much sheer GRINDING you'd have to do in order to get the gear with emblems, I think your argument is pretty much crap when it comes to rewards matching the effort.
Your real life example is ridiculous, too. Think of it like this- you'd have to put in way more time and effort working at Taco Bell to make the same amount of money a lawyer could make in an hour. No one is going to say that someone at Taco Bell can't save their money to buy a nice stereo just because they have fewer skills than the Lawyer who can afford that nice stereo after less than a day's work.
Antistes Jun 20th 2009 5:48AM
@Ryan
Ever considered the fact that some people educate themselves for an opportunity of doing something they love rather than getting craploads of money. My profession requires 4 years of college studies but it doesn't have an eye popping salary attached tot hat education. I am however very passionate about my field of expertise.
Now spot the metaphor.
Shrike Jun 20th 2009 9:21PM
It should be noted that badges do not allow you to fill all slots, and usually the items that are given are not best in slot, though they are very good. Offended hardcore players will still, in the end, have the edge. The edge will just be a little closer for the casual players.
Also, this will make gearing alts much nicer for though of us who have already geared through the current raid content several times.
killnjoy Jun 26th 2009 12:57AM
i don't think this is meant to reward non-raiders so much as allow those who are NOT in raid guilds to gear-up so they CAN raid.
for most of BC i wasn't in a true raid guild, so i had to grind a LOT of heroics & badges to be geared well enough to even get a look from a raid guild. i easily spent more hours for less result grinding heroics than i had to once i found the right raid guild.
getting good gear using the badge & honor systems may take less skill, but it does require just as much dedication and commitment.
this is not "free" gear for the "casual" gamer
Robert M Jun 18th 2009 4:25PM
Excuse me if I'm an idiot, but what happens to the emblems of heroism you have now? Do they basically become useless? Or are they converted on patch?
epsilon343 Jun 18th 2009 4:27PM
All of the vendors are staying in place and you can use those emblems to purchase other items, they're just making it so that you get Conquest emblems and can keep those for gear or can instead turn them into Heroism/Valor to buy other things.
Heilig Jun 18th 2009 4:28PM
You can still use them. All the gear will still be there, you will just have to convert the higher tier emblems downward to utilize them. Note that epic gems will be purchasable with Heroism emblems. That is how you get there from here.
emptyrepublic Jun 18th 2009 4:29PM
I imagine they will not be converted since you will be able to downgrade Conquest to Valor and Heroism. Additionally there is no word on change the currency needed to buy T7 and T7.5 gear (though who will at this point).
Robert M Jun 18th 2009 4:48PM
Looks like you should just level alts that aren't raiding until the patch then.
If all those emblems are not converted, why hang out in heroics until after the patch when you can get conquest emblems starting on patch day?
boredatwork Jun 18th 2009 4:26PM
This honestly has me pretty unhappy. Not to QQ on a forum post but blizz is nerfing the game too much. Being able to get Ulduar 25 man loot by running Heroic Violet Hold over and over again is pretty ridiculous. If people aren't running heroics anymore it's because they've moved on to the next set of challenges. I don't run Scarlet Monastery anymore either but that doesn't mean they should change it to drop T8 gear does it?
Netherscourge Jun 18th 2009 4:26PM
I LOVE this idea.
I actually MISS running Heroic 5-mans because everyone is running Naxx all the time.
I know the QQ will be legendary among the hardcore elite losers, but for everyday joe's like me, I'm VERY happy.