Patch 3.2 changes the tiered Emblem system
There are a lot of things in the patch 3.2 test realm notes that jumped out at me, but the changes to the Emblem system seem like an especially big deal. The developers made it quite clear that they wanted a tiered token system in Wrath of the Lich King, they didn't want players just farming Heroics all day and night to get the best possible gear. In patch 3.2, it looks like they're backing off on that pretty heavily, likely an attempt to reignite interest in running Heroics. If you haven't seen the patch notes, here are the points I'm referring to:- Any dungeons that previously dropped Emblems of Heroism or Valor, such as Naxxramas or Heroic Halls of Stone, will now drop Emblems of Conquest instead. Emblems of Conquest can still be converted to Valor or Heroism.
- Both the 10 and 25 player instances of the Crusaders' Coliseum drop a new Emblem of Triumph.
- The heroic dungeon daily quest will now reward 2 Emblems of Triumph and the normal daily dungeon quest will reward 1 Emblem of Triumph.
- The existing achievements to collect 1, 25, 50, etc. Emblems of Heroism, Valor, and Conquest have been converted to Feats of Strength since Heroism and Valor Emblems are no longer attainable.
So taking all of this into consideration, a player could theoretically get 4 pieces of Tier 8 gear without ever setting foot into Ulduar, simply by grinding out Heroics and getting a couple of lucky drops from Emalon. To get the Tier 8 hat and gloves, you would need a combined total of 116 badges. At roughly four badges per Heroic, that's just shy of 30 Heroics. That sounds like a lot, but when you take into consideration how people got their gear in The Burning Crusade, it really sort of... isn't a lot at all. This is a big step away from what the developers stated they want to do, but as I said, I imagine it's a change made in the interest of encouraging people to continue running Heroics.
Of course, Conquest badges won't be the best of the best in patch 3.2, because we're getting our hands on Emblems of Triumph, the new Tier 9 badges. However, they're doing something differently here, too: Both 10man and 25man versions of the Tier 9 raids will drop the same Emblems, there is no longer a split. That means the 10man version of the raids will be able to get their hands on the same iLevel gear as the 25man version, unless there's some crazy black magic afoot that we won't get to see until we're on the PTR ourselves.
Of course, Emblems aren't even limited to the Tier 9 raids. Someone who has never stepped foot in a raid in their lives can get Tier 9 badge rewards if they're dedicated enough. The daily dungeon quests hand out Emblems of Triumph one or two at a time depending on your chosen difficulty. Someone who has never touched a raid can eventually get Tier 9 badge loot. Heck, someone who has never touched a Heroic can get Tier 9 badge loot. It will just take awhile. If current badge loot is any indicator of the cost of Tier 9 gear, it will take them around 60 days of doing the daily to get a piece of tier gear. That's a long enough time to justify that, I think.
So is this all bad? In the case of the Emblem of Conquest change, I don't think it's bad given the game's current landscape. People aren't running Heroics, and they need to be given a reason to do so. Letting them get Emblems of Conquest will give them reason to do those dungeons. I don't think it's the best possible solution and I hope they come up with something better for the next expansion, but for now? This is probably a good move. Wrath of the Lich King really does not encourage people to do 5-mans, so hopefully this will do it.
In the case of Emblems of Triumph, there doesn't seem to be a 10/25 man split. I've already heard theories that this means there won't be different loot for 10 and 25man raids, but it's far too early to start screaming about that, either for it or against it. Maybe we'll see something like 10man raids getting fewer badges than 25man raids, so it takes the 10man raid longer to get 25man equivalent gear? We don't know, and while this change seems weird, I can't immediately say it's bad. My opinion could quickly change upon seeing the implementation.
Like I said, I see the Emblem of Conquest change as a quick fix, a temporary solution. You can't get the best of the best gear with Emblems of Conquest in patch 3.2, but it's still going to encourage the behavior they initially wanted to discourage. They absolutely need to get people running Heroics again, but is this the way to do it? Long term, I don't think so. Short term, yeah, I can agree with it.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to calculate roughly how many Heroics and Emalon kills I'll need to get all of my alt 4-piece Tier 8. Add the seven, carry the four, divide by three...
Patch 3.2 will bring about a new 5, 10, and 25 man instance to WoW, and usher in a new 40-man battleground called the Isle of Conquest. WoW.com will have you covered every step of the way, from extensive PTR coverage through the official live release. Check out WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.2 for all the latest!Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Raiding
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Reader Comments (Page 5 of 14)
epsilon343 Jun 18th 2009 4:42PM
Those people who just hit 80 no longer have a player base to call upon reliably for Heroics. It's no longer beneficial for raiders to go there because the loot that drops is so inferior to what they could get with badges and boss kills. By updating their badges, a large portion of the population would be interested in returning to 5 mans.
Ignatius Jul 30th 2009 4:25PM
Blizzard just found the way for us to renew our WoW subscriptions, easier access to raid-gear without having to raid. I like it.
lownwolf Jun 18th 2009 4:34PM
This is ridiculous. I'm glad i worked so hard to gain gear that, soon, everyone and their brother will have because they're farming heroics. Fresh 80's will have Tier 8 AND tier 9. Run the heroic and non heroic daily every day and suddenly you have 21 Emblems of Triumph in 1 week!
If you can't handle ulduar, you shouldn't get the gear. plain and simple. My guild has worked extremely hard to get where we are, and now all that work has been pissed away by blizzard
Amaxe Jun 18th 2009 4:35PM
I'm not much of a raider (we're working on Naxx 25 now. No idea when we will even start Uld 10) but I think it doesn't make sense to get badges to the highest items with normal heroics.
Hell, it will probably benefit me, but I still don't see the sense of it
Aleveria Jun 18th 2009 4:36PM
I just don't get all the QQing. If you've worked hard and cleared Naxx/Uld etc... you'll still have the satisfaction of doing it. You'll have titles, achievements AND gear.
To others that don't have time to raid four nights a week for 4-5 hours a night, they have a way to grind the gear. They won't have the achievements, but they still get to see the content AFTER they're geared. Elitism has absolutely no place in a VIDEO GAME.
People will always have different priorities in their lives, be happy with YOUR achievements and let others do things they way they need to in order to enjoy the game.
In the grand scheme of things, it's really a silly thing to be getting worked up about.
Orbitz Jun 19th 2009 12:57AM
We raid 3 hours a night, 3 days a week and are clearing Ulduar 25 just fine. Don't act like you know what you're talking about.
Jon Do Jun 18th 2009 4:56PM
@Orbitz
Agreed. We're progressing on just two nights a week, though not a full clear yet.
I predict that by the time 3.2 actually goes live, most progression raiders will have Ulduar on farm, emblem gear already bought, and some even-better hard-mode Ulduar loot, and won't need much of anything from heroic emblem farming.
Limor Jun 18th 2009 8:41PM
My guild raids two nights a week. Thursay is an open run and anyone can go. That run clears as far as they can in Uld10. The Saturday is a closed progression group. We start off where the open run left off. While we haven't downed Yoggy, we are 10/14 into Uld10. We aren't spending a huge amount of time raiding. Personally, I wish we raided more. But we are vary casual. To be frank, if you aren't willing to invest that little time into getting gear, you really don't need or deserve tier gear. Raiding, and therefore teir gear, is more accessable than ever. It is easy enough, it doesn't need to get easier. When all is said and done, teir gear should require some effort beyond doing a few heroics.
freeway8989 Jun 18th 2009 5:33PM
Orbitz, sure, but think about how much time someone must spend outside raiding to get ready for something like Ulduar. Even though you only raid 3 hours a day, 3 times a week, I'm sure that it's not how much you actually play WoW. The rest of the time you spend doing dailies, PvP, farming, etc. in order to have enough resources to even raid (like collecting money for repair bills). So in reality, you might spend upwards of 8 hours a day playing WoW, although you only devote 3 hours to raiding. But think about the many casual people who can only PLAY for 3 hours a day, 3 days a week, period. They have to somehow manage to cram the time doing those necessary non-raiding activities AND raiding into the time you spend ONLY raiding.
So what then? Tough patootie to them? Well if that real-world mentality should be taken with a VIDEO GAME (which is supposed to be a pleasurable activity to escape the real world), then I have no idea what to say. Quite frankly, people are treating WoW too much like a business. For some reason, you have to work your ass off and work shifts in order to bring home the virtual bread. That's just stupid. Everyone should have access to everything without it having it to become some psuedo-job.
Justin B Jun 18th 2009 5:51PM
PvPing, farming, and doing dailies are not necessary to raid. Raid bosses drop gold, and even with hundreds of gold in repairs per night I actively gain gold from raiding. I only log in to raid 3 hours, 3 nights a week for a total of 9 hours of raiding. Raiders are not necessarily hardcore, and can easily play -less- than casual players.
It will take a good solid 7-8 hours of heroics to get a single piece of Tier 8. You get a lot more gear than that raiding Ulduar. The emblem gear is also really, really bad. The gear inside Ulduar is far better itemized.
These changes to emblems don't affect casuals at all. This gets hardcore players and raiders back into heroics and eliminates the massive gap between the haves and have nots. This allows -new- hardcore players and -new- raiders to get into the endgame.
urakei Jun 18th 2009 10:28PM
Agreed with freeways... casuals pays too, in fact they are the major contributors... so they also deserve the tiered gear and experience the now "elite" content...
and don't think casuals are stupid... they can learn from early raiding mistakes and after a couple of tries they'll do just fine...
Retropally Jun 18th 2009 4:35PM
Great change and although they may have changed their system a bit...it'll let them reach their objective of letting more people get to end game content.
Whine all you want that other people will get badges that you've worked for, and have already got. Why do you really care what anyone else gets as long as your've got it...
Jeremy George Jun 18th 2009 4:42PM
Poor choice of mechanics if you ask me...
They should have just let you trade up your emblems 2 to 1...
Two Heroism for a Valor, Two Valor for a Conquest...
And two for one coulda been the nerf down from 10 for 1 :-P
Jon Jun 18th 2009 4:41PM
I've never been one to complain about changes. But this seems like a step in the wrong direction.
Being able to get iLvl 226 epics from running 5 man heroics is a slap in the face to those who have earned their gear by raiding. Yes, raiding's not all about getting gear, but it's the hallmark reward from doing so.
Granted, you won't get them as fast as if you were in Ulduar, but the item level of the gear should match the difficulty of the dungeon you're in.
What's next, legendary weapons dropping from 5 man heroic bosses?
epsilon343 Jun 18th 2009 4:44PM
If you're offended by someone farming T8.5 gear while you're working on T9 then you've got issues. And hell, if someone wanted to grind 3 Triumph badges a day, more power to them, it's the same amount of work just spread out over a ridiculously long time.
emptyrepublic Jun 18th 2009 4:50PM
Are people forgetting that this was mostly the case in BC?
The Claw Jun 18th 2009 5:28PM
Jon, I think you mean "getting ilvl 239 epics from running daily quests" since that's what this change also brings! :-)
Emptyrepublic, we remember BC quite well. It was a horrible design and we applauded long and loud when Blizzard abandoned it for the bad idea it was. To see them revert to that in 3.2 is.. disappointing. And discouraging.
BlackTiger Jun 25th 2009 11:29AM
>>Are people forgetting that this was mostly the case in BC?
BC... BC... Most present players at level 80 can't pass trough Sunwell Plateu!
Who cares about BC? Hellfire->Zangarmash (optional)->Northend. That's it.
Rob Jun 18th 2009 4:43PM
Smart move to boost retention I think. As we progress further and further, people who can only manage a naxx once in a while (forget about ulduar), will have no opportunity to see tier 9 and above, unless they do something like this. I personally think the tiered badge system is pretty idiotic; too complex, too confusing, and you waste so much time. I have 20 badges of one type, 20 of another, all useless because I need 2x more of one type and 3x more of another to get anything I need.
Anyway the new raiders should get off their horse and realize the game is just a treadmill and is designed for casual players to at least be able to experience the content, months after release. They have done this consistantly throughout the lifecycle of WoW and they'll do it again.
Xino Jun 18th 2009 4:43PM
With every major content patch they really are making raiding pointless. At this point it makes me wonder if raid instances will even exist an expansion or 2 down the road.