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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsClass Q&A: Mage
by Eliah Hecht 
Jun 19th 2009 at 7:00AM
Second up in the class Q&A (Shamans were first) are Mages, those lovable glass cannons. Or are they? The Q&A opens with Ghostcrawler discussing public perception of the class, with a prompt of "a lot has changed since the days when the 'glass cannon' description was applied."
General
GC describes the mage as "the iconic caster:" deals magic damage from range. They should be versatile enough to do single-target damage, AoE damage, and crowd control, and every group should want one. (I'm noticing a trend here -- GC also described Shamans as a class every group should want. I guess every group should want all classes.)
They like the different feel between the three trees is in a good place, with Frostfire possibly providing a fourth aesthetic. They have decided that "king of AoE" is no longer a good niche to put any class in, so now they're trying to give both AoE and single-target to all DPS specs (with "extra effort" to make sure mages do good AoE).
Why has Mage seen fewer changes than other classes during Wrath? "By and large, the class works." Not that it's perfect, but it's in pretty good shape.
This is something that's never occurred to me before. GC says one thing that makes Mages unique is that each spec is centered on one spell (like Fireball). Procs and cooldowns keep this from getting boring.
Mages are still a glass cannon (compared to the other cloth classes), and they're meant to be - escape abilities should be your main way to keep alive.
Itemization
People are concerned that itemization supports Fire over Frost. GC responds that the design isn't to have Frost use vastly different items than Fire; they feel that some work is required here. They're making "a big pass" on talents and stats to try to help this for all classes.
Will mages get robes or the option of robes over tunics going forward? Answer: "this is not a huge priority for us at this time" (translation: we don't care).
Mana efficiency
Broadly speaking, the philosophy is that healers might run OOM if they're undergeared or misplayed, but DPS players should not run OOM. To support this, they are "likely" to lower the mana costs of the major mage nukes.
Is mage AoE too expensive? Well, they don't want casting Blizzard on one or two mobs to be attractive; efficiency is still good on many mobs. Some other mage spells could use boosts to make them as efficient as Blizzard.
This doesn't really fit into mana efficiency, but: they're considering making Spell Steal only steal spells that are beneficial to the mage.
Talent trees
Arcane is "a little bloated." The Warrior Prot tree and the Paladin Ret tree are good examples of talent trees they like - fewer required talents, more points to spend on "fun play-style choices."
They are not concerned that Torment the Weak is considered a mandatory talent for all mages; they don't think it's needed for Frostfire, and they don't think it's a problem for Frost or Fire to sub-spec into Arcane. Oh, mandatory Arcane points, will you never leave us?
There are plans to improve Fire in PvP, though the think it's "more important" to fix classes that have "no viable specs" for Arena. They do want to improve Dragon's Breath for PvP.
Fire's threat does concern the devs; they want to fix it through Invisibility (which they are changing to be uninterruptable in patch 3.2).
As ever, they want to make Frost PvE viable, but without over-buffing it in PvP. Ice Lance is a target for a buff, though they're not sure how to do that yet.
The Q&A wraps up with a question about Blink, and its many failings. GC recognizes that one of the places it seems to fail the most is in the WSG tunnels; they're working on it. They say if you have a Blink bug, the most helpful thing is to report it on the Bug Report forum with specifically where it was that the failure occurred, so they can hopefully fix the maps.
That's the end of the mage Q&A. Not a whole ton of substance here, but this fits with GC's assertion that Mages are mostly alright. Next up? Mages' arch-rivals, Warlocks.
Patch 3.2 will bring about a new 5, 10, and 25 man instance to WoW, and usher in a new 40-man battleground called the Isle of Conquest. WoW.com will have you covered every step of the way, from extensive PTR coverage through the official live release. Check out WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.2 for all the latest!Filed under: Mage
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
nieboh Jun 19th 2009 1:16PM
@Bobson
Blink up cliffs? Why not?
Blink across gaps? Why not?
Blink through walls? No, but only because of LoS concerns.
What is happening when a mage uses blink? Blink isn't a "quick movement" spell, it's an instant short-range teleport. So what does it matter if there's a deep pit or chasm in the way? Why does it matter if there is a cliff as long as the _total_ distance (i.e. hypotenuse of the triangle) travelled fits the spell?
Turtlehead Jun 21st 2009 4:41AM
"nieboh Jun 19th 2009 1:16PM
@Bobson
Blink up cliffs? Why not?
Blink across gaps? Why not?
Blink through walls? No, but only because of LoS concerns.
What is happening when a mage uses blink? Blink isn't a "quick movement" spell, it's an instant short-range teleport. So what does it matter if there's a deep pit or chasm in the way? Why does it matter if there is a cliff as long as the _total_ distance (i.e. hypotenuse of the triangle) travelled fits the spell?"
It's a short-range teleport teleport that go does directly forward. It's not targeted and it doesn't follow the camera angle. Logically, should that teleport you up a slope if you're standing on it? Maybe. Up a cliff? Nope.
Logic has little to do with game balance and coding though. Existing bugs aside the list becomes:
Blink up cliffs? Because it's not how the spell is intended to work. It'd also allow mages to reach places no player is supposed to reach and cause *more* bugs.
Blink across gaps? Logically, I'm with ya. Potentially hits problems 2 & 3 above though.
Blink through walls? This has both exploit and crash painted on it in mile high red letters.
chady Jun 19th 2009 11:58AM
I like the way the new tier set looks actually for too long mages have been in dresses all the times. I think they should do all tier gear that way have two options whether it be a tunic or a whole robe... not that much programing just keep the stats the same
As for the comments in the q & a about the portals and food being so important. With how fish feasts are designed now a days Is the food a mage makes really something to write home about.
And Portals Please there are so many portals nowadays and the heartsthone being reduced to 30 means that if you need to use a mage to portal somewhere then you are an idiot
Duckaholica Jun 19th 2009 12:26PM
My first "real" class was a mage. Sure, I had a warrior and a hunter but I never really understood them. The first one I ever understood was the mage. And unfortunately, being a mage lately has made me really sad :/ So does this Q&A.
I'll state this first - the mage class isn't inherently broken, but IMO we're all glass, and very little cannon. A few small changes could really, really fix this though, and I don't think they'd be terribly unbalancing changes. Like everyone else, there's three things that come to my mind immediately:
Fix Evocation
Get rid of dampen/amplify or change it to be 'useful'
Frost for PvE please
But I'll add:
Fix kiting skills (nova, slow)
Counterspell?
I play Arcane but I prefer frost. I hate PvPing, I just really like Frost overall. I remember when we reached TK and A'lar and for once my DPS wasn't 'subpar.' It was great. And then all the others went frost too and I was sad. >_>
Blink itself isn't broken. Anyone who says it is plainly doesn't understand programming. Think of tossing a bouncyball - sometimes it will hit a corner or a slightly raised edge on the ground or something and it bounces backwards. That's what happens when blink hits an 'edge' of terrain - it throws us backwards. The only way to fix that is to "smooth" out the terrain. I've understood this to be the problem for the two years I've played the mage, even before it was "confirmed." I don't see why others have difficulty understanding that, but then again, maybe they haven't ever gotten 'caught' on a set of stairs, a post, a fence or a treetop in game before. I do always, but probably because I fly like I'm drunk.
What really pisses me off the most about being a mage is how we have all these talents and spells to make us survive...except they don't work. Slow never, ever works on an elite. How are we supposed to kite a mob that runs faster than us, especially when we have to stop and cast things? And what about counterspell? It never counters spells on anything that can really kill us. Frost nova...same QQ there. Ever try nova'ing a creature in place?
Mana shield needs a reworking. We need a shield that doesn't drain mana, or as much mana, simply because a mage with no mana and full hit points is still a pretty dead mage.
I am thrilled with the invisibility changes that are upcoming, but like others wish there was an aggro dump that didn't require invisibility. And let's face it - unlike fade or soulshatter, it isn't INSTANT, which means if you're not paying attention to threat and something is coming to punch you in the face, it's too late. You don't get the sweet deal that those classes get.
Ultimately, my mage has turned into a farming character. I play my paladin and my priest and my hunter because they actually are useful to a raid for something besides a table and an intellect buff. It's frustrating because I used to love raiding with her, but now am just bored with her and her ineffectiveness.
Sorry about the long post. I rarely post, and had too much to say I guess.
Xigageshi Jun 19th 2009 1:21PM
i'm right there with you ducka. i've been a mage since the original beta, hell I tried the game after reading a blog by a mage who was in the alpha, it sounded sooooo cool. i'm always a mage / wizard in every game i'm given that option. this Q&A saddened me as well, I guess I hoped that if mages were the second Q&A they must have something they want to say about them, turns out that something was, "meh, you're fine" sure we are fine, we're ok, we're decent, but when was the last time that you, as a mage, cackled with glee at a kill, or grinned from ear to ear after a really good fight? it'll always be my favorite class, and i'll always think of him as my main, but i've got a shaman, paladin and warlock in their 70's, and with this Q&A I think I might just focus on them more.
fellow mages, I raise my glass to you, for arcanum
kworry Jun 19th 2009 1:38PM
While I agree that it can't be as trivial to fix as some are making it out, you can't just say "Think of tossing a bouncyball". Those physics aren't just inherent in the game, they have to be replicated so the idea that blink would "bounce" you back doesn't even exist unless it was programmed to do so, and then there could easily be a test to ensure you don't end up behind where you started. If Blink fails it should NEVER move you behind where you actually blinked (blunk?) from. This could be working as I've suggested and moving backwards could be simply attributed to lag (the server having your last location as slightly behind where your toon appears on your computer) but I seem to recall being moved backwards when blinking from a standstill.
I'm not a programmer either but seems that if blink used the same collision detection that walking uses, then just calculated what would happen if the toon moved 20 steps forward...
...all I'm saying is I can walk across the boardwalk in Redridge, but I can't seem to blink over it.
Vision33r Jun 19th 2009 5:11PM
Maybe because Hunters are still pretty OP in PVE, some fights benefits Warlocks than other classes, and Mages are losing some of their appeal such as CC and AOE, when Shammys, Ret Pallys, and now Rogues can perform these roles too.
Terethall Jun 19th 2009 2:33PM
Next Week's Expected Warlock Changes:
New felhunter ability "Devour Mages" instantly consumes all mages in a 40 yard radius returning health and mana equal to 25% of the amount consumed to both the felhunter and the warlock. This ability also produces a soul shard for each mage devoured and has a 20 second cooldown.
Eirias Jun 19th 2009 3:55PM
Anyone mind explaining why "Torment the Weak is considered a mandatory talent for all mages"? For PvP or solo PvE content, sure, but why would a raiding Mage want it? Just to help against adds (that can be snared or slowed), or is there something I'm missing that gives it some use against bosses (who, so far as I know, are generally immune to snare and slow effects)?
Shlippmack Jun 19th 2009 4:12PM
You don't raid or read up on raid builds do you?
jurandr Jun 19th 2009 4:23PM
You are missing something. TTW can be triggered with the following debuffs (which can indeed be placed on a raid boss).
Warriors: Thunder Clap
Paladins: Judgements of the Just
Druids: Infected Wounds
Death Knight: Icy Touch
These abilities (to my knowledge) are part of the class's tanking rotations, so as long as you have a traditional tank, you will have TTW active. If you didn't take TTW, your missing out on a 12% damage boost. And pallies/druids.. yes the talents are optional, but from what I saw in the wowhead comments they are pretty standard tanking talents.
Eirias Jun 19th 2009 5:27PM
Ah, that would do it; looks like I didn't properly understand what constituted a "snare". Thanks for the clarification.
Turtlehead Jun 21st 2009 5:44AM
The only (?) snare in the game which worked on bosses in BC (almost all of them) was Slow. This led to the idea of stacking mages, one "Slow b***h" who kept it up full time at a personal DPS loss + others to benefit from it.
Blizzard quickly changed how it works. Now the snare counts as a snare debuff even if the target is immune to the effect of the snare, or even from a glyphed frostbolt where the snare is removed but still counts. Confusing? Yup.
The list Jurandr made does mean most tanks will keep up the snare to trigger Torment now, but other things will as well.
Deathknight - Icy Touch
Druid - Infected Wounds
Hunter - Concussive Shot, Concussive Barrage, Frost Trap, Wing Clip
Mage - Blast Wave, Cone of Cold, Frost Bolt, Improved Blizzard, Slow,
Priest - Mind Flay
Paladin - Avengers Shield, Judgement of the Just
Rogue - Blade Twisting, Crippling Poison, Deadly Throw,
Shaman - Earthbind Totem, Frost Shock
Warlock - Aftermath, Curse of Exhaustion
Warrior - Hamstring, Piercing Howl, Shield Bash, Thunder Clap
That's an old list and may not be updated. Some hunter pet abilities probably also count but I've never tested them.
Roots (e.g. nova) are a different debuff and do not trigger Torment. Mobs are immune or not immune to roots. There's no weird in-between.
Raid arcane, frost, and fireball (FFB doesn't have the points) builds will all take Torment currently.
Katie Jun 19th 2009 5:27PM
Seriously. You put a picture of a troll to represent the mage class?
I would've thought a gnome :) A human or even a blood elf. But a troll? Aren't trolls like hunters and shamans. Never really met a studious troll. And what's with the no boots? Did he forget his shoes or does he think that's just attractive.
Eros Jun 19th 2009 7:46PM
They picked a troll because trolls can be mages maybe?
Noscy Jun 21st 2009 7:28PM
I don't think they still have addressed "Ignite munching". Nor have I heard any development towards the same.
Azhoul Jun 22nd 2009 3:31AM
Honestly, mage DPS is fine. It's the other issues that have me concerned.
Mana Effeciency. Mages have serious mana issues, and it seems as though it's getting worse. Saying "You don't need evocation" is a blatant lie for arcane, and a half-truth for the other speccs. For the most part, mages have serious mana issues unless the entire raid is overgeared for the encounter and belting out extra DPS. In such a case though, no one's mana issues matter. Mana gem should scale with gear, and Evocation should be fixed. 'Nuff said.
Survivability. Escape tactics are fine and dandy for mage survivability, but when a large percentage of classes can snare us, and run faster than we can, AND clear our snares and roots... It gets a bit overwhelming. If they're going to keep us at a point where we can't shield ourselves and be done with it, make Blink clear snares as well. I'm really getting sick of DK's using chains of ice and then merely walking up to me after I've blinked, remaining in a stand-still position to be roflpwned.
Utility. Only rogues match us in the respect of low utility. Warlocks and hunters, both being pure DPS that are about matching us damage-wise, have more utility. Flat out. If you're curious about the utility mages have, allow me to list them and why they're not great, as well as combinations or replacements for them.
- Food/water (Toss down a few silver and ANY class can have this utility.)
- Arcane Intellect / Arcane Brilliance (Intellect doesn't do anything for classes without mana pools, and does very little for most others. This buffs shamans and hunters the most. It is also overwritten by a felhunter being present.)
- 5% crit (To cast these, we need to take a cut in DPS. Even though frost can stastically put out decent numbers, it's still lower than the other speccs, flat out. Warlock's TIER ONE improved shadowbolt overwrites this, and the class casting takes no hit in DPS to apply the debuff.)
- Replenishment (Again, you need to take a cut in DPS to obtain this. What more, it's tied to frostbolt, and attatched to water elemental. In other words, you want 3/3 for the extra elemental time, but you only need 2/3 or even 1/3 for the replenishment buff. Warlocks and Hunters can also apply this buff with "PvE optimal" speccs, while mages need to use frost.)
- Focus Magic (Perhaps our single most useful buff. Fortunately it stacks freely. However, it only applies to two people, one of which MUST be yourself.)
- Crowd Control (Breaks on damage, but is spammable. Is rarely used outside of certain Ulduar pulls, and many other classes can also CC instead.)
- Portals (The ability to send your raid away isn't very useful as utility.)
- Amplify / Dampen Magic (These are a joke. And trying to convince people how Amplify magic is GOOD for a raid, even on a fight like Sarth is a mindless annoyance. Thus, most people just take these buffs off entirely.)
- Slowfall (Decent on Malygos. Has little use in PvE elsewhere.)
So, while that may seem like a long list, much of our utility requires a cut in DPS (Which is not the case with Warlocks or Hunters) or is very very close to being completely useless.
Itemization. The amount of spirit on Ulduar gear, and even with the recent changes to make spirit "more useful and interesting to mages", it's just not the same as it is for warlocks and shadowpriests (Not to mention other caster classes). Thus, the same piece of gear will often upgrade a certain class a fair bit more than mages. This was true for TBC as well, and the effects of it should be popping up pretty soon. Nerf mage base damage and increase scaling, and please, for the love of god, have something spirit = haste for arcane. Only with the molten armor glyph does spirit become decent for arcane. Most other classes don't need to glyph so thier gear becomes "decent".
So yes, our DPS is fine, but the class is FAR from perfect.
Freaky Aug 19th 2009 2:55PM
How do you feel about mages now? You state they are still glass canons... I tend to disagree. I'm an 80 mage with around 5 blue ilvl 200 items and the rest purple and all minimum ilvl 200 (some 213 and 226 items).
DK's with similar gear (ilvl wise) frequently get twice!! the damage I do and warlocks mostly pass me with ease as well. Not saying I'm the best mage ever or anything like that, but I'm not that bad either. DK's can take damage, and a lot of it too. A lot of people justify it by stating DK is a 'hero class'. Personally I don't care. Mages are this fragile because they are *supposed* to be the 'KING of DPS'. Now-a-days, other than some utility functions, they don't seem of much use to me. Most classes come near the DPS and DK doing double the damage, that just ain't funny.