The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Patch 3.2 wish list
What to say about patch 3.2 so far? One of the dangers of writing about the PTR in general is the possibility that, as you are typing out what you want to say, a brand new PTR patch is dropping. To some degree this would be a welcome circumstance even though it would erase what I'm writing about now, because the current PTR has nothing for warriors. Well, okay, not nothing. They buffed Armored to the Teeth slightly. On the PTR it grants 1/2/3 AP per 108 armor, as opposed to on live, where it takes 180 armor for that same benefit. Why 108? Maybe because it was easy to swap the 8 and the 0. Honestly, I couldn't tell you. The amount of AP you get from the talent isn't tremendous, but anything's better than nothing I suppose.
Also, the block value changes are in (I tested them out yesterday), and, well, they fail even as a band aid fix to the problem of block performance: sure, you deal more threat to trash pulls and take less damage from them, but as far as bosses are concerned, block is still lackluster as a 'oh I don't want to die' stat. You can now block up to between 3 and 4k of a 22 to 25k hit, I'm not exactly breaking out the party hats. Especially when you'd have to stack the heck out of the stat to get even that much out of it.
And man, as nice as the T9 tanking set is in terms of pure stats and bonuses, you will not want to give up that T8 4 piece set bonus with the straight up 20% magic damage reduction for it. 10 seconds of 20% magic damage reduction? You simply can't undersell how awesome that is for tanking big spike damage bosses in Wrath raids. It's pretty much the only thing that keeps warrior tanks viable against DK's and druid tanks for those fights.

The T9 DPS set, on the other hand, is a pretty solid upgrade all around. Completely unbuffed (no battle shout, no food or pots, nothing) even without the set bonuses and not even fully gemmed yet I saw a solid 200 DPS increase from my live T8 set (which does have all its gems) against the heroic training dummy in IF. Once I get all the proper gems (possibly some epic ones yay) I expect to see even higher stats from the set and up to a 400 DPS increase on the training dummy, and hopefully that will translate well to raid damage. (I'll also point out that in that screenshot I have no crit trinkets at all, no Wrathstone or even Mirror of Truth, but rather Grim Toll and the new hit trinket from emblems of triumph. No, this is not an optimized gear set up at all, this is me screwing around on the PTR, so with gems in place and a more even trinket selection we could see better results.)
But since I'm here anyway, we might as well discuss what I would like to see for warriors in patch 3.2. I'm not foolish enough to expect there to be a major overhaul of rage for 3.2, although I do expect to see one eventually. I actually hope they don't go with rage only from damage dealt, making it a poor man's runic power, as warriors already suffer enough from comparison to DK's as it is. Some of these suggestions, if implemented, would need a compensating change to other classes for parity's sake, but since I'm not writing about those classes I won't be providing any suggestions for what those would be.
My first big idea for warriors is simple, and it's an extension of what they did for warriors in Patch 3.0/WotLK's launch, namely to make strength even more significant. (I should admit now I've seen this idea posted to countless forums by now, in various different forms.) Unlike Paladins or DK's, our plate brethren, warriors don't call upon an outside force for power, be it the Holy Light or the runes of death. No, warriors are brute physical power, without shape shifting, guile, the elements or any other outside agency. Therefore, warriors should be more focused on strength in their gearing: the idea of picking up a piece with AP and agility shouldn't be one that requires any thought at all for a warrior. Changes to Improved Berserker Stance were a step in the right direction, but I'm not just talking about DPS warriors here - tanking warriors should want strength and a lot of it, maybe even to the point where when given a choice between strength and stamina, the effective health choice would be strength.
How would we go about this? Well, there are many ways to consider. The first is simple enough: whatever tanking stats strength contributes to, it needs to contribute more. Also, warriors need to get parry from strength as well as parry rating on gear. Strength also needs to grant chance to block as well as block value. Furthermore, there either needs to be a component to defensive stance or a talent in protection (since prot is already fairly bloated, I suggest appending this change to an already existing talent) that allows a portion of a warrior's strength to be converted to health, allowing warriors to gear for more strength without drastically hurting their health pools. Warriors are the tanks who tank with pure, raw physical force, no magical forms, no unholy power, no radiant blessing of the light, so strength needs to be the basis for how they tank even more fundamentally than it is now. Warrior tanking DPS needs to go up so that they can generate more rage from the damage they do and not have to worry as much about incoming damage both to give them more of a role outside of MTing and to allow them to be brought into line with other tanks, especially if rage is changed from its current paradigm, and strength seems to be the way to go here.
Furthermore, in addition to strength providing these benefits to tanks, it should become an even more central DPS stat than it is now. The reason Armored to the Teeth grants attack power instead of strength was that it was a concern that all prot warriors would feel the need to take it to boost their block value. Frankly, with block a mediocre stat at best, that is no longer a concern. It's time for AttT to fall in line with Strength of Arms and Improved Berserker Stance and become a talent that gives you strength for armor value: 1/2/3 Str for every 216 armor value would bring it into line with its current AP incarnation. It would scale better with SoA and Imp Zerk as well as contributing even more of that valuable strength for tanking options (if the previous changes were made).
I would also consider borrowing a page from the agility/AP classes and modifying it. Whereas they use Agility as a source of both AP and crit (some classes gain AP from both agi and str, like rogues, but in practice rogues use AP/Agility items instead as they are itemized to grant the most AP for agility classes and can be made to benefit hunters, shamans and rogues) warriors should use strength as a source of crit. You could either simply move the amount of crit warriors get from agility to strength (completely neutering agility as a DPS stat for warriors and absolutely removing the appeal of any agiAP gear) or use a formula similar to that used by rogues for AP, with warriors getting about half as much crit per point of agility as they do now and shift that other half over to each point of strength. The danger here is, of course, as warriors stacked strength you'd have to be careful to balance how much crit they got from it so that they didn'tend up with ridiculously high numbers too soon, and it would also have to balance for prot as well as arms and fury since prot would be stacking str as well.
Another possibility would be removing the ArP from battle stance and simply having strength add ArP for warriors, possibly through a talent, possibly as a baseline stat conversion for all warriors. While this would necessitate finding a new benefit for battle stance it would have the advantage of not overloading strength with both AP and crit in one stat the way agility is for Agi/AP classes
As for tanking, at some point we need to look again at the spam factor of warrior tanking. Stacking five sunders (via Devastate if you're prot) then constantly queuing HS and hitting Revenge/Shield Slam every time they're up generates good threat, yes, but it sounds like a woodpecker on steroids is attacking my keyboard every time I'm tanking. Changing the way sunder works to apply all of the threat of a five stack with one button push and then applying a cooldown so that the ability generates just as much threat and isn't spammed would be a start, as would taking the added threat off of Heroic Strike, leaving it a pure DPS ability, and creating a tanking strike (Vexing Blow?) that was on a short cooldown and which generated the same threat as spamming heroic strike. Just an idea, but I'd love to get even further away from the roots of the warrior class as the spamming tanks.
The ultimate goal for all of this (and again, I hasten to point out that some or all of this would require rebalancing of the class and compensatory changes for other classes that I am not qualified to suggest, as I don't play those classes) is to embrace the fundamental nature of the warrior class as one that derives its power wholly from internal sources and pure brute force. This is not a graceful, agile class. It's not a tricky one. It's not one that taps into the power of nature, or the elements, or the Light, or even necromantic runes. This is a class that is all about wearing the heaviest armor, wielding the heaviest weapons, and smashing them into things. By making strength an even more intergrated and important stat for warriors than it currently is you can balance for higher DPS tanks (crutch abilities like Vigilance that compensate for warrior tank DPS being so low could be redesigned to be more of a buff and less of a 'Help me, random DPS, you're my only hope' ability) and for more rage from DPS, and thus less rage from damage taken. It would also allow for DPS warriors to focus more on being armored dreadnaughts instead of wearing that rogue's pants and that shaman's goggles.
Filed under: Warrior, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, News items, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors, Wrath of the Lich King






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
segsp Jun 25th 2009 1:11PM
Hopefully Blizzard changes the T9 Warrior Tank 2PC. I mean, who uses intervene?
Bort Jun 25th 2009 3:00PM
You put down armored to the teeth, but I think the change is a big deal. As a first tier talent its easily accessible for all trees, furthermore - its a first tier talent, and that makes it available to points into at any point in the prot tree.
As it breaks down, its 3 pts.
Using a Prot warrior in my guild who has it now as an example. He has 23,740 armor (unbuffed).
Currently, he receives 131.8 attack power for each rank, 395 attack power overall
The change will grant him 219.8 attack power for each rank and 659 attack power overall
The differenct is 88 attack power per rank and 264 overall, a little under a 67% increase (which likely accounts for the number change imo).
A fury warrior in my guild, by contrast, has a little over 14k armor. He is receiving 52 more attack power per rank over his previous 78.1 for a total of 130.1 or and increase to 390 from 234 overall, adding 156 attack power.
What does this all add up ?
Prot Warrior has 2,839 attack power right now. 234 overall is a 8.2% increase.
Fury warrior has 3,617 attack power right now. 156 additional is a 4.3% increase.
Now raid buffing will lower these numbers, but not devastatingly, and attack power may not be the stat of choice for a prot warrior but its by no means worthless.
Dyzzi Jun 25th 2009 3:32PM
woah woah woah now... Intervene is an off-tank's best friend. An off-tanking warrior can't put out that much dps on his own, so whats the best thing next to that? Bringing down the threat of your raid members using intervene so that way they don't pull aggro or have to saturate their damage in order to prevent pulling aggro, which in turn, brings down their overall dps. A dpser's job is to aimlessly fire absolutely everything they have at the target until it drops dead. A GOOD prot warrior can assist them in doing that.
Fridge Jun 26th 2009 1:40AM
A GOOD tank shouldnt have problems with threat as it is, so forget the stupid intervene and do the little dps you can to help kill the boss.
The 2 piece T9 set bonus for tanks sucks hardcore, I mean honestly being an MT I have absolutely no use for that whats so ever, and like I said unless your MT has issues with threat I still see no use for it for an OT. And again a GOOD tank shouldnt have problems with threat.
Shoryu Jun 25th 2009 1:14PM
love ur articles matt, but blizzard hates us remember? and could you link your armory for me :P
Sundart Jun 25th 2009 1:27PM
Back before Wrath, the strength to block value ratio was 100 to 1. In Wrath, the devs seemed really excited saying that strength will help out with block a ton. So, the ratio became 10 to 1. Honestly, it's lame. Very lame. The ratio should be at minimum 1 to 1 and even possible 1 str to 2 block. This would, imo, help fix many of the issues surrounding this mechanic and talent trees wouldn't have to change. Plus this would scale with gear quite well since bosses hit harder as new raids and tier gear are added.
RandyWatson Jun 25th 2009 1:30PM
Wasn't the strength to block ratio 20:1 and they reduced it to 2:1?
Robert M Jun 25th 2009 4:21PM
It was 20:1, and it was dropped to 2:1.
Rossi,
Aren't you afraid that str is going to become to much of a focused stat? I agree that str should provide parry like to a DK, it really should to any plate wearing class. If they didn't want to link it to parry, they could have a talent that links str to haste, and that haste could then be converted to parry. Afterall, a faster opponent is likely to parry you more in combat.
I also thought your comments about the prot tree being bloated were pretty interesting. You do realize that Blizzard hopes that all the trees for all the classes look similar to the warrior prot tree?
Zarhym said so in the mage Q&A...
"If you look at say the warrior Protection tree or the paladin Retribution tree, those provide a model for where we’d like to take talent trees in the future "
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/4/17899681390-class-qa-series-mage.html
As a pally I believe the ret tree is pretty bloated myself, and am curious why Blizz would try and transition more trees to look more like warrior prot and ret pally.
http://fatchickstank.blogspot.com/
RandyWatson Jun 25th 2009 1:36PM
I still can not understand why plate dps gear is only allowed 4 stats. 4. That's crazy. Leather has 5 stats and dps mail has 6 stats! Six! Why is it so hard to envision a piece of gear that has strength/stamina/hit/crit/armor pen or strength/stamina/crit/haste/expertise? Hunters and rogues each get 3 of the secondary green stats. Why should we only get 2? Simply changing this itemization would bring down the amount of ilevel points spent on stamina and help bring our dps back in line with out classes.
Also, I really like the idea of strength translating into both attack power and crit. Why does agility have to be special that way? If warriors are a little stronger, they are more likely to smash through that helm and critically crush a man's skull in. If warriors are a little stronger, they would be able to cut a little deeper and possibly find a key artery to cut in order to critically injure their opponent. This could help fix itemization and bring warrior dps up to par with other hybrid classes.
Fridge Jun 26th 2009 1:53AM
WE ARE NOT HYBRIDS, I hate that blizz even says that, no matter what spec we are we dps, being a Tank just means the Mob is attacking you, hunters tank for certain encounters, so have warlocks and other classes so should they be considered hybrids because they techniquely can tank.....NO of course not but oh since a warrior can quote tank we are hybrids and another thing if tanking is not a form of dps why is tank dps such a big issue or topic that is discussed so much on forums because we DPS!! while tanking, why do hunters have an ability that taunts? why do warlocks have abilities that create very high amounts of threat because those abilities are meant to be tanked with, WE ARE NOT HYBRIDS, what makes a hybrid a hybrid is having a blue bar that fill a green bar, the ability to heal or dps, heal, tank, or dps is what makes a hybrid.
RandyWatson Jun 26th 2009 8:01AM
We certainly are hybrids, at least in the eyes of Blizzard and that is what really counts.
Can warriors tank efficiently? Yes. Can warriors dps efficiently? Yes. Given the right spec and gear, we can perform 2 of the 3 basic group roles. That makes us a hybrid.
I'm not even sure what you are getting at with the DPS argument. Can prot warriors dps? Um, a little bit. Can prot warriors dps efficiently and well? Um, no. We have one tree that is moderately good and getting whacked and surviving while we have 2 trees dedicated to dealing damage. Can arms/fury warriors tank? Um, kind of. Much in the same way hunters and warlocks can tank.
jjtwalton Jun 25th 2009 2:41PM
Great post and one I wholeheartedly agree with..
I've Paladin tanked since level 61 when our group for Ramparts fell to pieces and it's been the smoothest ride ever. As for Warrior tanking, i've been doing it for about 5 days, and besides the fact i'm a skinny female Night Elf, I dont' feel strong. I guess that will come with gear and a pair of those Spiked Deathdealers (which oddly sound like they should be itemized for DPS) but a focus on strength would be a great start.
Do you feel there's any way that block value could be translated to a % of damage mitigated (like 40% of every hit instead of 4000 damage?) I know it would mean that a 6ft Human could block a massive swipe from a huuuuge dragon, but considering we can parry that shit, it's not unthinkable? I think that if blizzard made 20% chance to block the standard (and nuke diminishing returns thereafter except for Shield Block and Holy Shield)) they could concentrate on balancing what block value does.
Perhaps there should be no such thing as block value? Perhaps if you block an attack, you block it and that's the end of it? It would work just like Parry I guess, other than to add a flavour... but it would keep things simple... then we have 4 tanks that either get hit, or they dont. They can all be balanced around some boring theory that armor is a set figure or there about and if boss X hits a tank with an average item level gear set of 232, then they'll take X damage. Pretty boring, though.
ANyway... i'll leave it to the experts.
dj_stevie_c Jun 25th 2009 1:36PM
I'm glad the T9 Set seems to be a bit more sensible for us DPS'ers.
jjtwalton Jun 25th 2009 1:37PM
Oops. Typo
JustinScott Jun 25th 2009 1:39PM
Druids tank in a "physical" form, no? Yea, "morphing" forms is a kind of magic, but when their tanking, they only use their physical body.
Great article :)
Seraph Jun 25th 2009 2:02PM
Barkskin = magic imo!
JustinScott Jun 25th 2009 2:11PM
Well couldn't Spell Reflection technically be considered a magic based ability? I mean, without some kind of magical barrier around a shield, how else would a shield actually be able to block an attack that wasn't physical?
Maybe im completely wrong here, but thats just my thought.
Seraph Jun 25th 2009 2:40PM
I like to think that I'm redirecting the spell off my shiny shield through sheer brute strength.
kluh Jun 25th 2009 1:42PM
I dont agree with the devastate part because as a tank i sometimes see myself in a situation where lots of mobs are around me and my aoe just isnt enough, so i click around applying 2/3 stacks of sunders which does it most of the times whereas with the cooldown that would be impossible.
I suppose the heroic strike idea would work with fast tanking weapons, but not all of them are fast and devastates are instant.
I do agree with everything else, being a class that only relies on its physic it would be nice the gameplay would reflect it.
TzunTzo Jul 15th 2009 5:39AM
Devatste triggers S&B which is another reason to use it when SS and Revenge are on cooldown. Not using Devastate other then "keeping 5 sunders up" shows if nothing else that you are a novice at tanking. So you are right in being suspicious.