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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsMultiboxing.tv lets you watch multiboxing as it happens
by Mike Schramm 
Jun 26th 2009 at 2:00PM
Our old friend Tim Sullivan, who worked at Wowhead way back in the day, just sent along a note that he's working on a brand new web video series all about something in World of Warcraft that's been gaining a lot of ground lately: multiboxing. Thanks to recruit-a-friend and all of the bonuses that come along with sponsoring a second account, quite a few people have shown an interest in running more than one character in the game, and Tim's series, called Multiboxing.tv, shows live feeds from his gameplay (all five screens of it, four Hunters and one Priest) while people can chat and learn live about multiboxing and how it all works. He's also leveling the group up -- they're currently around level 40, and he says he's headed to 80 eventually.You can check out his front page to see when he'll be streaming next (and someone told us he was streaming for something like fourteen hours the other day -- take care of yourself, Tim!), and if you're interested in how you might get started multiboxing, he and his chat channel are probably more than happy to help you figure out how to do it. He did say he'd be streaming every night this weekend, so if you're around then, you should be able to catch him. Personally (as you probably already know), I'm a big fan of the standard one character gameplay -- I have enough trouble figuring out one toon, much less five. But Turpster, as you've probably heard on our podcast, has dived into this kind of stuff headfirst and loves it, so if you're interested in seeing how it works, tune in to Tim's channel and find out.
Update: Apparently while this was presented to us (and appears to be) just a guy streaming his multiboxing, Tim may have some less generous motives -- he's apparently trying to sell multiboxing software, and you can see the comments below for some other shady moves that have been made. Watch at your own risk, and keep in mind that while the stream appeared legit to us, it may be an advertisement for software you certainly don't need to multibox.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Tips, Fan stuff, Odds and ends, Blizzard
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 5)
Richard Long Jun 28th 2009 9:59AM
You fail to realize that DB will only endorse the software they are PAID to push, which is KEYCLONE and everything else is secondary. Yes they might appear to be 'protecting' the community but what they are really doing is thwarting any growing of it in favour of its own software and own marketing to wit, their website and forum thus banning any other solution seeing as a threat to this.
I have picked apart the DB forums under a pseudo-name the past week, and I can find quite a few posts about how great KEYCLONE is and very little information about anything else.
If you were truly at your word, I would find more information about ALL multiboxing software and not just what you are paid to sell; though you might be in the guise of suggesting other solutions there really aren't any.
Until now.
Thus, we have two products, both with their own closed marketing strategies and lots of misinformation on both sides it seems, though I think Tim is more transparent then anyone on DB or Keyclone since neither a top lvl programmer or user has made an online stream promoting the software nor asking questions about multiboxing in general as Tim has done.
Once again, the fact you bring up that Tim's software COULD be in violation of Blizzard's UELA when clearly there is NO WAY this is true as he is using it, has used it in the past, and Blizzard is perfectly happy for him to do do (otherwise his accounts would be immediately banned - they are kinda on the ball in this regard!), shows you are just trying to stir things in your favor.
It could be said the very same things about KEYCLONE, to wit, that it violates aspects of Blizzard's UELA on such things as multiboxing and it is up to the USER how such software is to be used in the game, no less than any other addon I point out.
At NO point does Tim show that his software can be used in an illegal way, but you have already shown that KEYCLONE can in fact but configured to add functions that would detract from the multiboxing experience, indeed, that it can be used for botting purposes.
Feel free to keep posting, I will add further retorts as they come in. BTW - I have tried KEYCLONE, it sucks and it was extremely annoying to configure. Watching Tim's easy UI, well within the bounds of Blizzard's rules with NO POSSIBLITY of being against any rules nor breaking any while allowing an easier gameplay while multiboxing for those that choose to - see the live stream even tonight at 9pm CST on justin.tv.com. :)
Once again, I am not affiliated with justin.tv.com, DB, pwnboxer or Tim Sullivan in any way, I simply state some relevant observations that people should understand.
Multiboxing is PEFERCTLY LEGAL by Blizzard's OWN RULES under the agreement you signed when you become a subscriber.
What software you use to do it, is what is in question here.
Tarpo Jun 28th 2009 1:52PM
Guys I just checked out the DualBoxing.com website and guess what I saw?
The moderator Key clone who sells his own multiboxing software on the DB website, the same person who is constantly spreading lies about Tim Sullivan and his new and very featureful PwnBoxer, just said this:
"as for being a 'community'... one of the main rules for the community is not to post links to other multi-boxing forums, bleeding this community of its users."
He is so scared his users will leave him that he has to resort to that level of censorship and communistic control. That is exactly the type of attitude we are talking about here. He is ordering the users of his website to never post links to other multiboxing forums. He is ordering the users of his website to dig their heads into the sand and never look elsewhere for quality information.
He is essentially trying to CONTROL his users and REMOVE their decision making ability by banning people who link to other multiboxing websites.
Who on earth gives him the right to try and control the thoughts and opinions and actions of other people? The answer is easy - NOBODY. Yet again we see the dualboxing.com admins trying to control their users by Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD), a practice which is unethical, dishonest, and downright shameful.
As for the http://multiboxing.tv, Tim Sullivan, Pwnboxer in general, this guy deserves an award for the good work he is doing. I watched his video stream last night which was something like 6-8 hours long and I was extremely impressed at his dedication.
He spent a long time describing how macros are set up, how to use different WoW UI mods, how to do keystroke bindings, and he never once brought up his software until it was asked, and then again he mentioned only how he was using it, how it facilitates easy key broadcasting, and not a single time did he say anything advertisey in any fashion.
In fact, he even said that people don't have to use his software, they can use whatever software works best for them.
So to the multiboxing.tv live video broadcast of multiboxing, PLEASE KEEP UP THE WONDERFUL WORK! You have helped what appears like approaching ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND people in the last couple weeks.
Bravo to multiboxing.tv for your great resource. Please keep up the good work!!!
Shame on dualboxing.com for your constant lies and dishonest tactics.
EaTCarbS Jun 28th 2009 3:48PM
@ Tarpo
You must be one of Tims lackeys
Since you like to quote Keyclone, heres another one for you:
"as for 'competition' against keyclone on d-b.com, oh phuleeze. there are numerous other products. better products then his. more mature products than his. it has nothing to do with the product and everything to do with the individual and his intentions."
kc Jun 28th 2009 7:25PM
i was told of this page by a user. reading through the comments is just funny.
(i would be surprised if tarpo wasn't tim and richard should show me how you can add a function to keyclone without hacking it)
keyclone was first released in april 2006. dual-boxing.com came into existence in jan 2007. i joined the community in july 2007, which was mostly hardware boxers, since that was the main way people did it. that changed once they found keyclone.
is keyclone promoted on the site? sure. it was the first, after all.
since then, d-b has promoted numerous other products (i could think of at least 6 off the top of my head). if anything new comes along, OF COURSE we pull it immediately in order to protect our users. we do not allow anything to be posted that could be in violation or a potential security threat. this is common sense.
we also do not allow advertising of other sites, as the point is to grow the community and not be a conduit/ad-channel for some snake oil salesman.
if tim and crew say otherwise, that their 'community' would be open to such things... i would suggest posting links to dual-boxing.com and keyclone. watch how fast they will be yanked. the same for his video stream. users have reported being ip banned from the video feedback for mentioning dual-boxing. is tim paying justin.tv to block competition? i think so. don't believe me? try it.
if you want more back story on tim and his antics, there is a post on d-b stickied under general:
http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=22954
during the wowwiki edit war, i posted a link to dual-boxing and keyclone on pwnboxer.com, as tim was claiming it was a 'community' site in an irc chat with the wowwiki mods. it was removed within the day. (i have screenshots)
all this drama is tim created. lax, freddie, skarlot, s.wilson and myself are all software devs whose products are on the site. we all get along quite well and don't get into this type of insidious web attacks.
if you actually care about the facts, they are all available on dual-boxing. i'd suggest checking out tim's site, but he ip banned me for posting the link to dual-boxing that first day.
and yes... i'll be surprised if this comment remains. therefore, i will screenshot it after posting.
Anteia Jun 29th 2009 2:59AM
Okay.. ya'll are being a bit frightening. The rabid "BUT TIM IS AMAHZING AND WUNDERFUL AND CURES THE BLIND BY HIS MULTIBOXING HANDS" fans are scary. The rabbit D-B defenders are a bit scary. The rabid OMG HATE MIKE people who seem like a cult going after a protester are probably the scariest.
1) Multi-boxing: Considering I've raided with... three different people, maybe more who have multiboxed... and my raid is actual led by One woman playing four shamans, and we're working on Mimiron as the last Watcher in Ulduar 25, which may not be general or Yogg but it isn't shabby either.. quite clearly, I do not dislike multi-boxers. Ironically, before I got to see how much work it really does take to multi-box WELL, I admittedly did not think highly of them. Now I'm impressed by multi-boxers who can hold their own in a raid, even if holding their own means they totally out-DPS me on each Shaman *mutters*
2) "Life is pain, Highness, anyone who tells you differently is selling something." Everyone who has a product or endorses a product quite clearly, has a motive to entice you to listen to them. Their motive is to make money. They are not being generous, amazing people to the game community. If they were, this product would be given for free. Am I saying it is bad to sell it? No! It is not even bad to advertise it. Capitalism is OKAY. But there apparently has been a past that many of those who comment, INCLUDING ME, are not aware of. You can see glimpses of it in the vicious attacks from each sides just in these comments. Which leads me to the final point...
3) Mike was right to edit his article to MENTION that there could be something shady going on. He even, in fact, tells people to read the comments. People can research it and do what they like. He said 'apparently' in regards to selling software and shady moves. He did not say that this Multi-boxer was trying to take over your computer with evil software and intends to steal money from you. He just gave warning that everything might not be as clear as it seems. Those who are concerned can investigate. Failure to GIVE warning if there is a possibility this is the case would make me far more concerned than actually bothering to edit a written article. Do I agree with the things Mike apparently twittered over? Nope. But I don't follow twitter at all. I do read Wow Insider.
So seriously, everyone step back, cool your heads, and realize that Tim can go on making videos and selling his software. D-B can continue taking whatever stance they want on the issue. And Mike just wrote an article and edited it to warn of information he did not know about that some people may wish to know. There is no reason to remove the edit, and people can believe whatever side they wish. I always prefer to know from the start if something has a potential controversy surrounding it. If, after investigating, I think the controversy is silly, then I just ignore it and enjoy what I enjoy. But being warned that you might want to investigate something isn't actually something that should have to be said as people should always do it, but since they don't, now you know. Make your own decisions.
Tarpo Jun 29th 2009 3:53AM
Did Keyclone (aka KC, why hide?) just say to look for proof of Tim's by linking to a post that Keyclone created himself, which is full of lies, as if that is supposed to be proof? Keyclone creates a forum post of lies and then expects people to believe it is the truth because it is posted on the Internet?
FACT - You created a forum post to discredit a proven community icon and you insult people by assuming they will believe your shady lies.
Now to push this further, Keyclone says that Tim is controlling the Justin.tv site, which is ranked up there with the largest video sites in the world, rumored to be worth in the hundreds of millions, just so Tim can spend 12+ hours a day teaching people how to multibox???
Keyclone (aka dualboxing.com admin) you are making a huge fool out of yourself. Please, you are making me feel embarassed for you. Watching your feeble attempt at collaborating so-called facts is akin to watching an ice skater at the Olympics fall during a triple jump thingy.
You do not allow posting of other sites on your own site because you are scared people will educate themselves and use their own free will to find alternatives to what you have to offer. Way to kick your own community in the face. Once again we see your true colors shine through.
As you have easily noticed, your antics and the antics repeated by the dualboxing.com owners and admins are being wholly rejected. This multiboxing community rejects you and I have even ready multiple links on your own website that demonstrates that your OWN community is starting to reject you as well.
EaTCarbS Jun 29th 2009 3:32PM
lets see those links, shall we? Keyclone actually posts links, while you Pwnboxer/Mousecloner worshipers blab.
Kintamago Jun 29th 2009 7:24AM
Hello all,
I do not usually get caught up in these drama discussions, but I have been following this one quite closely due to the fact that I am a boxer myself. Now, I am a Mac boxer so that instantly cuts out the options for Keyclone or Pwnboxer for me, which I think can give me the opportunity to be at least a little objective. This is because neither one of these packages are available for Mac, and as a result left me really having to scour to and fro for solutions to my problems. Now to my point...after having read this piece and the bits and pieces I have been able to pick up over the internet on this D-B.com/Pwnboxer debate I have noticed many things.
on the D-B.com side:
-they really do offer a wide variety of things other than keyclone on their site. In fact keyclone gets equal voice on their wiki section along with; auto hot keys, innerspace, octopus, etc...
-seems to not really have much on the forums except usual; how do i, in arena, group setup, hey look what I did in naxx, what do you do when, etc..
-it is all free, no advertisements, no links except to vids (containing members accomplishments), and lots and lots of hardware discussions
-There is one link on the mainpage that allows you to directly download Keyclone.
on the Pwnboxer side:
-application advertisements
-setup instructions for pwnboxer
-downloads section only for pwnboxer
-forums with a very large number of satisfied user testimony...all of them ''thank you pwnboxer''
-videos of how to use pwnboxer
-not really too much on other things other than pwnboxer unless I missed something.
now onto this whole thread; I have noticed both sides of the coin are fairly heated in their debates and their content, but let's take a look at the what's been said so far. Please, if you want the whole story go back and read the full post that the people made. I have just copied what I feel gives the gist of the point they are making.
>for D-b.com<
-supernova 9
I'm Svpernova09 from dual-boxing.com I'm an admin over there. I just wanted to say that the reason we don't allow Tim's software / discussion of his software, is because mousecloner was found to violate the WoW EULA. And that he keeps showing up under different names spamming our users with advertisements for his software. Dual-boxing.com does NOT make any software,
-ekkosangen
From what I've read about the whole fiasco, it seems like what's been done has been a reaction to what he's done. A mass PM advertisement on the dual-boxing.com site, not to mention reports of spoofing emails to further advertise the software. That would be why he was banned from the site, which is completely reasonable--It's against the forum rules. Solid ICE Technologies pays to advertise KeyClone on the dual-boxing.com site, and the company/program seems to be well-accepted by the community.
-vector
Drama, we all love it don't we? Any promotion of boxing in WoW is good, however because many feel it is questionable, the community has to be careful how that promotion is done. Tim created a previous software package that violated the Blizzard TOS/Eula and pretty much banned him from d-b.com. That choice was made to protect the community, plain and simple. You will not find any recent "okay" from Blizzard on any multi-boxing software, only the stance that 1 key press = 1 action. Regardless of the software you choose, you still have to follow the rules.
Bashing Svpernova because you feel he is marketing d-b.com makes no sense. Is there another boxing community out there? I think most know that it is the one place to go for help. There are many different software choices being discussed regularly, from free to yearly costs and done so by the rules of the community and in strict compliance of Blizzards TOS/Eula. Getting banned does no one any good.
It would be great if Tim's position changes and he is upfront and avoids the questionable tactics he uses to promote his software. It is great that he is creating a venue where people can watch multi-boxing and truly see the fun in it. I hope it continues to be clean.
>and now to the Pwnboxer peeps<
-johnathontroublesome, Lexi, Qot, Ez, RIchard Long, Nick, Tarpo (the people whom I saw posting most)
"Guys I just checked out the DualBoxing.com website and guess what I saw?
The moderator Key clone who sells his own multiboxing software on the DB website, the same person who is constantly spreading lies about Tim Sullivan and his new and very featureful PwnBoxer, just said this:"
"He is absolutely amazing and doing a very good job at answering everyone's questions. He is in no way advertising any of his products and only shows and talks about it when asked. I will continue to watch his trek to 80 and beyond as he's doing a great job :)"
"So to the multiboxing.tv live video broadcast of multiboxing, PLEASE KEEP UP THE WONDERFUL WORK! You have helped what appears like approaching ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND people in the last couple weeks."
-ok-
Now these are just quotes I pulled out from sections that I think will boost my arguments, and are in no way perfect....cause well...I ain't perfect, maybe you are but I am not... :(
for the D-B.com people it seems that they feel wronged and from the things I have been following up on it seems that their arguments are true. He has been whole-sale advertising his product on a site which wants to remain advertisement free. if you have been visiting wowwiki recently you will notice his advertisements are pretty much all over the place In addition, I personally think that most of these comments here and his user testimonies in the positive are all just him and his friends/employees creating users and sounding almost as if they are deifying his work and his wonderful boxing ability/ interesting personality. I have no proof but they all sound frighteningly the same.
If you want more on the argument visit D-B.com to get their take on things. in the forums there are some links to the whole thing in a great deal more detail. Also, visit the pwnboxer homepage to see exactly what the layout is like as well.
My two cents wordy, long, and probably boring. However, you should look things up on your own, do not rely entirely on what is on this thread, and make your own decisions.
Tarpo Jun 29th 2009 2:00PM
Kintamago:
I appreciate your post but you have a gigantic hole in what you are saying:
#1 - The information on the DB website about Pwnboxer was created by the actual admins, therefore there is no reason to believe they are true. Again, just because somebody creates a forum post on the Internet saying something is true, does not make it true.
#2 - I checked Wowwiki and Pwnboxer is in fact supporting the Wowwiki website by paying the Wowwiki company for advertising. Pwnboxer is not violating any rules, it appears that Pwnboxer actually has a business relationship to support Wowwiki financially.
In fact, now that you pointed me out about Wowwiki, this makes the Pwnboxer guy even more of a respectable figure. He is going out of his way to support the Wowwiki website financially, which in turn enables Wowwiki to pay their bills and support more WoW players.
Notice a trend here? Pwnboxer/Multiboxing guy is:
--- Supporting the community with a LOT of educational live multiboxing videos.
--- Supporting the community by financially support Wowwiki so Wowwiki can continue their website. He does this by paying for banner promotional space.
--- Supporting the community by answering a LOT of WoW general questions on his forums
--- This guy was the CEO of Wowhead.com !!! That is one of the most supportive websites that existed.
Also note, you cannot go to the dualboxing.com website to discuss this, because if you say anything positive about this guy, they immediately ban you. I know, I mentioned how I use the program there and got immediately banned. I did some checking and found that others are getting banned.
Bottom line here is that all of the actions that Multiboxing.tv website and the operator are showing is that he is supporting the community in multiple ways.
Attaboy Jun 29th 2009 6:32PM
A little test:
1. Go to the pwnboxer site and join the chat.
2. Ask them why you have to pay for pwnboxer since there are several free and supported alternatives like Octopus and Hotkeynet or even pure hardware solutions.
3. Mention that there is an active community on dual-boxing that suports these FREE products.
4. Ask how pwnboxer compares to other paid products also supported on dual-boxing like ISboxer and Keyclone.
See how long it takes to get you booted from pwnboxer and IP banned.
(you might also want to ask yourself why dual-boxing supports all these other paid for and free products yet refuses to support pwnboxer at all and maybe wonder if perhaps there is more truth to the negative comments about pwnboxer than some might think)
(if pwnboxer is really just about multiboxing and not about trying to sell his product then he should welcome and encourage the mention of all products that support multiboxing even if they are in competiton to his own product.
You will find that on dual-boxing you can discuss all products, free or paid for even if they are rivals to Keyclone with the exception of pwnboxer products for reasons that have been made clear in earlier posts)
Jennie Jul 6th 2009 1:30PM
If you go into any of Tim's broadcasts and SPAM hatred about the software, sure, you will be muted first and banned second.
I am one of the mods, so I can speak for myself but not others. I personally wont ban someone for asking questions about software, including KeyClone. The stream is about multiboxing, and a vast majority of questions are about the macros and UI. If someone asks about how he is running 5 boxes, he tells them in a short 10-15 second blurb, and sometimes someone links the website (sometimes a mod, sometimes not).
However, when people go into that broadcast (or mine) and start spouting drama based inciteful remarks, would you expect NOT to be banned?
As for the websites themselves...
Pwnboxer.com is a software website, just like SolidIce is a software website.
Multioxing.tv is a multiboxing community, just like dual-boxing.com is a multiboxing community.,
Trying to equate Pwnboxer.com to Dual-boxing.com is like comparing apples to pianos. There is no comparison.
Please people, the multiboxing community doesn't need the infighting. This kind of drama just pushes people away and really puts a bad face on everyone who multiboxes. Can we keep the Party A vs Party B issues behind closed doors and let users make their choices based on the softwares features?
Oh, and watch the streams! Watching someone multibox live is very entertaining. Especially when opposing faction comes to camp, or the boxer nearly wipes and survives with a single toon =)
HecT Jul 6th 2009 11:04PM
buying a program from a 3rd person site to help you in one game should be illegal. thats just like buying gold / accounts. This will also allow people to lvl up toons faster to sell illegally.