Scattered Shots: Climbing Hunter talent trees
Welcome to Scattered Shots. I am Eddie "Brigwyn" Carrington from The Hunting Lodge and I'll be your tour guide each Thursday as we explore what makes our Hunters tick and how we can make them better.I've read comments here, over on the Official Forums, and other Hunter blogs and forums saying how Blizzard is forcing Hunters to spec either as Survival or Marksmanship. I always find this a hard argument to support, especially since it is Blizzard that has continued to give us three different talent trees that we can spec into. But as always, there seems to be a preferred talent spec.
To me the blame isn't Blizzard but us Hunters always looking to squeeze out every ounce of DPS out of our class and remain on top of the damage meters. (Go ahead let the flames begin, but hopefully you'll give me a chance here.) We go out of our way looking, experimenting, and testing different build combinations to find the one magic build that gives us top DPS. Once we have found that, we tend to forget that we really can play all three builds. No, they all won't perform the same. And if you are in a progressive, hardcore, min/max raiding guild, well then stick with the spec-du-jour. But if you are like the majority of the players out there, you probably want to play something that better fits your play style. Like Goldilocks and the Three Bears, it has to fit just right.
So let's look at the different Talent Trees, discuss a bit about what makes each one tick. Then look at the currently recommended builds and shot rotations for each spec.
Marksmanship
Let's first look at the current leader of the DPS race and for many the preferred raiding spec, Marksmanship.
I like to think of the Marksmanship Hunter as the epitome of the Sharpshooter, one might even say the William Tell or Robin Hood of the Hunter specs. (I'd use Sniper but that talent is over in the Survival tree.) The can sit back and with their weapon of choice and unleash a barrage of damaging shots from a distance.
The Marksman Hunter has a casual relationship with their pet. Unlike the pure partnership bond exhibited by the Beast Mastery Hunter you will see that the Marksman Hunter relies less on their pet and more on their own ability to achieve higher numbers.
One thing you need to consider as you raid as Marks is threat management. Because of the higher Crit and damage bursts done by Marksmanship you might out aggro your Tank. So make sure you keep an eye on your threat meter or use an add-on like Omen.
So what spec should you use? There seems to be three recommended builds depending on your hit rating, raid composition, or play style.
7/57/7 Elitist Jerks Highest DPS Build –
This talent build will give you the opportunity to achieve the highest possible DPS as a Hunter. Just understand that you will never reach the full potential of this build unless you have all of the recommended buffs.
Another requirement of this spec is to use the correct shot priority.
7/57/7 Marksman Build –
This is an optional spec recommended by Rilgon of Stabilized Effort Scope to the one by Elitist Jerks. Its major difference between this spec and the EJ one is where a few talent points are located. It moves the 2 points from Endurance Training, and puts it into Focused Fire instead. There are a few other tweaks also that allow you to not be so dependent on specific raid buffs.
7/57/7 Focused Aim Build –
If you like the above spec, but find yourself shy of the Hit cap, then you might want to try this optional spec. It uses 3 points into Focused Aim to help get you capped.
For these specs, the following shot priority would be recommended. The only addition might be using Silencing Shot when it is available.
- Serpent Sting
- Kill Shot
- Chimera Shot
- Aimed Shot
- Arcane Shot
- Steady Shot
This is probably the closest thing to a red-headed stepchild spec that Hunters have. Until the release of Wrath of the Lich King it was often maligned. It has recently earned respect for not only providing utility with Hunting Party, but as a bona fide DPS spec thanks to the combination of Lock and Load and Explosive Shot.
Back in my day, Survival was the "Melee Hunter" spec. Thanks to talents like Savage Strikes, Deflection, and Counter Attack you could actually go toe-to-toe with mobs and not feel overwhelmed. Add to those talents like Surefooted, Trap Mastery and now Scatter Shot you can actually "survive" a close quarters fight.
Survival is extremely dependent upon the Hunter's ability to maximize their burst damage potential. Because of this requirement, Survival Hunters have often been considered some of the most knowledgeable Hunters in the game. (No disrespect to Marksman or Beast Mastery Hunters intended.)
Like the Marksman, Survival Hunters tend to pull aggro and will also need to keep close tabs on their threat.
Some recommended builds are:
6/14/51 Elitist Jerks Highest Survival DPS Build –
As with all of the "Best" DPS specs, you are very dependent upon the rest of your raid party being able to give you the correct buffs.
- Kill Shot
- Explosive Shot
- Black Arrow
- Serpent Sting
- Multi-Shot
- Steady Shot
This spec was originally recommended in Xumio's Survival Guide (Disclaimer: Xumio's guide is hosted at The Hunting Lodge.) when 3.1 was released. Many Hunters still use this spec, attesting to its viability.
If you go with this spec you will want to make sure to use the recommended shot priority as well.
- Kill Shot
- Black Arrow
- Explosive Shot
- Aimed Shot/Multi-Shot
- Serpent Sting
- Steady Shot
If you are a Beast Mastery Hunter you are now feeling the let down of being at the bottom of the DPS pile. After riding high during Burning Crusade, BM Hunters are facing the same criticism and scorn that Marksman and Survival faced previously.
This close relationship that Beast Mastery Hunter's have with their pets is what brings out the dedication to this spec for many Hunters. Many Hunters feel as passionately about their pets as some feel about having peanut butter on their pancakes. There is also a lot of versatility available to the player. Beast Mastery is the one spec that you can tune to go out and farm with your favorite Tenacity pet. Then switch a few points here and there, grab your Wolf and hit the raids and still do a respectable DPS. By some accounts only about 800-900 less than Survival and about 1,200-1,300 less DPS than the highest reported Marksman build. Granted, that is enough for the min/max raider to discount the spec, but not enough to throw it away if you're part of good casual guild or group of friends.
If you decide to go ahead and play as a Beast Mastery Hunter you might want to consider these builds.
54/12/5 Best DPS Build –
This build is recommended as the highest possible Beast Mastery DPS Build. One critical thing to notice here is that the 51st talent (Beast Mastery) is included. In order for this build to be effective you need to make sure and buff your Ferocity Pet attacks to include Shark Attack and Wild Hunt.
Just like Marksman and Survival, Beast Mastery now has its own shot priority as well. Gone are the days of the Steady Shot Macro.
- Kill Shot
- Multi-Shot
- Arcane Shot
- Serpent Sting
- Steady Shot
I find this build interesting on a couple of points. One, it highlights using Aspect of the Monkey for kiting. If you are like me you might decide to move this over to Endurance Training.
The recommended shot priority for this build would be:
- Kill Shot
- Arcane Shot
- Multi-shot/Aimed Shot (optional)
- Serpent Sting
- Steady Shot
So you want to be a Hunter, eh? Well then you came to the right place. Scattered Shots is the one column dedicated to helping you learn everything it takes to be a Hunter. Each week Scattered Shots will cover topics to help you Fix Your DPS, Choosing the Right Spec, Gear Selection, Macros and Pet Selection and Management.Filed under: Hunter, Analysis / Opinion, How-tos, Raiding, Guides, Classes, Talents, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Netherscourge Jul 2nd 2009 2:11PM
Well, tell Blizzard to stop content that prefers high-dps as opposed to versatility, and we can use other specs in raids.
Right now, Hunters are STUCK in Survival for raids. NO raid leaders will take us unles we're Survival. Guilds will require you to raid as Survival for the max DPS or they'll pass you up for another hunter who will.
I WISH I could Raid as a Beastmaster Hunter with my Exotic Spirit Beasts - but Blizzard decided BM was only good for solo leveling - which is fine until you hit 80. Then you're useless unless you respec.
t0xic Jul 2nd 2009 2:31PM
I think it's safe to say that a lot of different classes have to deal with the fact their "leveling spec" isn't their "raiding spec". I have leveled a ton of alts, and I can't think of a single one in recent memory that didn't level to 80 with one spec and then change specs at 80 to become raid viable. It's actually a little obnoxious IMHO.
PSUjebus Jul 2nd 2009 2:37PM
After leveling as BM and raiding all of BC as a 1 button BM hunter I am enjoying not having to micromanage my pet as much as Marks (or Survival if we lack replen). I feel bad for any hunter that raids Uld as BM with how unfriendly to pets most fights are.
Candina@WH Jul 2nd 2009 2:52PM
just a pet peeve here.
So, I have two exotic pets in my stable. And i respec'd suvival. Now I can't get them out...
Suggestions?
Ohrioh Jul 2nd 2009 2:59PM
@Candia Pull a ticket if you don't wanna spend the gold to respec to BM just to toss your pets. My fiance did that, next day she had a letter in her email and he pet was removed. No gold wasted :)
Or pick up dual specs if you got the cash to spend so that you can still show off the shiny pets.
Clbull Jul 2nd 2009 3:28PM
Sounds like Hunters are facing the same problem as they did in TBC. Being forced into one spec to DPS, except this time, theres a larger divide between the 3 specs.
Survival was never really intended as a DPS spec back in Vanilla and TBC, yet it could hit large numbers with very good gear and used to provide very good raid buffs with 600+ Agility (due to Expose Weakness). Now it is pretty much THE dps spec due to the Explosive Shot buff.
Beast Mastery (and the cookie cutter 41/20/00 spec) was previously the most important DPS spec, and the one that you had to use in TBC, now since 3.0.8, its become the worst Hunter DPS spec, doing far worse than the rest.
Marksmanship to me feels like an alternative DPS spec. It can pump out decent numbers but still feels lackluster burst and overall dps wise.
pushmonk Jul 2nd 2009 8:40PM
We consider our selves to be pretty hardcore (raid 3-5 time per week) and not one time has anyone ever asked me to spec MM or SV. The other hunters ask why I'm still BM, but then when I either beat them or match them in DPS, they don't care. Granted, there are other SV hunters around, but it's never been an issue. Maybe I'm lucky.
Adam H. Jul 2nd 2009 2:21PM
I wouldn't say it's required to be Surv, recent changes to MM does pull it above Surv atm, see 3.1.2. Esp with the upcoming 2pc T9 bonus that allows serpent sting periodic damage to crit, it will probably move well ahead of Surv.
I can understand that a guild may prefer you to spec a certain way for raids, some raiders can spec BM and pull ahead of surv, which was evident with BRK before his retirement. He often ran with his spirit beast and showed it alone pulling 3k DPS.
Nick S Jul 2nd 2009 3:30PM
For raid nights, I show up dual-specced Survival/MM. MM is amazing for stuff like activating XT Hard (double Rapid Fire makes dead things). Survival, however, tends to give me better DPS on long fights.
Always bear in mind that MM is the most gear-dependent of the three specs. Beast Mastery performs pretty well at low gear levels i.e. blues and Heroic epics, Survival pulls ahead fast once you have raid gear, and MM wins at full-Ulduar gear levels.
peagle Jul 2nd 2009 2:24PM
"peanut butter on their pancakes"
An unholy abomination only eaten by the Lich King himself.
Arthas, The Lich King Jul 2nd 2009 5:32PM
Conquer... in my name! Om nom nom nom....
Milwa Jul 13th 2009 9:02PM
Epic comment... thanks for the LOL!
Thar Jul 2nd 2009 2:25PM
Actually, Marks is the highest DPS spec once you have the appropriate Ulduar gear. For that first 7/57/7 spec, its a tad wrong! You would want 2 points in focused fire in the BM tree, and the point in Focused Aim in the Marks tree is only really needed if you are not hit capped (at 8%). That point should probably go back into Improved Steady Shot. Also, for folks trying to maximize Armor Penetration (something Marks is REALLY well suited for), spreading the three points from Improved Arcane Shot into other talents makes sense as well, since Arcane Shot doesn't benefit from Armor Pen (though can still be used while running around, this gives more emphasis on steady shots!).
outdps Jul 2nd 2009 2:59PM
To clarify here- SV is the highest DPS until you hit a certain level of gear. Generally, this means mostly naxx25 epics and about half of their gear UL25.
sylectris Jul 2nd 2009 3:30PM
what is it that lower lvl gear is lacking that makes surv best until you have naxx 25 uld gear? is it hit cap? arm pen?
Nick S Jul 2nd 2009 3:33PM
Armor Pen, primarily. MM benefits a lot from ArPen, where Survival does not.
There are Hunters out there who have gotten great results by gearing for over 600 passive ArPen and using an ArPen trinkets such as the Mjolnir Runestone or Grim Toll. They then drop Arcane Shot out of the rotation (since Steady Shot hits harder) and maximize damage from Autoshot, Steady Shot, and Aimed Shot, all of which are physical and benefit from ArPen.
Littlefang Jul 2nd 2009 2:27PM
Well I am marks and can hold my own with surival but then I don't mind being in the 3rd spot after the 2 survival hunters. But the remarks are spot on. In the old days raids needed hunters, tranq on Huhu or Mags, Kiting mobs, or chain trapping and who else but the hunter had the distance and finesse for pulling bosses. Our specialties are gone or shared with may other classes now. So what is left Mding our brains out and topping the charts. If I am not in the top 5 my class lead gets told to help me with my spec cause I am obviously messed up. I enjoy being a hunter always have but it seems like its a just a dps battle anymore just to keep your spot.
But really appreciate the specs listed here I enjoy seeing what is considered the best and trying them out.
thanks!
LF
clra2 Jul 2nd 2009 2:32PM
Luckily I'm not in a hardcore raiding guild so I'm able to raid as a BM hunter. It also helps when I'm one of 2 Hunters in my guild whose geared enough to raid and the other Hunter has rerolled a druid. I love my Spirit Beast way too much to switch over to MM or SV. I've tried each of the other specs and I just don't like the way the others play out. As long as my DPS is comparable to my guild members' DPS I'm staying BM (actually even if for some reason my DPS begins to lag behind big time I'll still stay BM).
Tanth Jul 2nd 2009 2:35PM
Great article. For the longest time, I refused to spec out of BM because I loved it so much. But about a week ago, I ran heroic Naxx with another hunter who was far less geared than me, yet did just as much DPS just because he was specced SV. That was the breaking point. I went out, regemmed and re-enchanted all my gear and respecced SV. I went from around 2900-3000 DPS in a 25 man if I was lucky as BM, to holding down 4k+ easily as SV. I know no one really FORCES you to raid as a certain spec, but that much DPS difference just makes it hard to justify raiding as BM. It's not necessarily just putting out as much damage as I could (even though that is a hunters role IMO), it's about just being plain useful. And to me, putting out such low numbers in comparision just isn't nearly as useful.
duskhawk Jul 2nd 2009 2:38PM
My favorite spec (scatter shot, silencing shot, fast pet rez):
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cx0MZceVfRAzucsgz0oe00bo:bhfMz0
It's a soloing/pvp/generalist build.
Compared to my raiding spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cbZceVfRAzhIsghVox00b:bifMz0
I don't have everything I'd *like* to have in either of them, but I think I'd need another 10 points for that. And at that point they'll have added another couple tiers to the tree. >.