Shadow Priest questions answered

I strongly recommend reading the whole thing on the official forums, but I'm going to pull out some bits and pieces here.
The first big thing that jumped out to me was in response to a question regarding Haste and DoTs. Have they considered DoTs scaling with Haste? Ghostcrawler says... yes! It's something they're apparently actively discussing. That doesn't guarantee we'll see it, but the fact that they're talking about it is promising.
Ghostcrawler also answers a question about dispel protection. Is it a problem? Are there plans to fix it, if so? Ghostcrawler says straight up that "the whole spell protection game needs to be overhauled." That's not the first time we've heard it, and it's good to see they're still of that opinion. Also, Ghostcrawler reinforces something I've been saying since they implemented the mechanic: The penalty for dispelling Vampiric Touch is "so low as to be silly," and says, "that's something we would like to boost for 3.2." Yes! I've argued since day one that the Vampiric Touch protection is far, far too conservative to be useful. It might as well not exist. I eagerly await the upcoming changes, whatever they may be.
On the topic of Shadow Priest damage taking so long to 'set up' compared to most other classes, Ghostcrawler says, "We would not want any spell that Shadow Priests felt like they could just cast instead of doing their rotation, and if the instant-damage spell was weaker than the rotation, it would likely see only situational use (though maybe that's a fine niche)." Greg, my buddy. Greg, my pal. A situational nuke is exactly something that Shadow Priests need these days.
A spammable (emphasis on spammable, Mind Blast is definitely not able to be spammed) nuke that is lower DPS than Mind Flay but higher front-loaded damage than Flay is a tool Shadow Priests could make great use out of in Ulduar, and even other places. There are situations in Ulduar where you have a mob with health so low that by the time you roll out your full rotation to get your damage started, the mob is dead and you haven't actually made an impact. But their health is high enough that just throwing out a Mind Blast and a Shadow Word: Death doesn't cut it, or the mobs are coming frequently enough that those two spells are eternally on cooldown and you just get to stand around with your you-know-what in your hands trying to figure out what to do to help.
The usual solution to this problem is that Shadow Priests simply pretend there are no adds, and DPS away without a care in the world on the boss or whatever. That's called not being a team player, and that's the playstyle our mechanics encourage. If things are going to Hell, I would love a tool that will let me lend a hand, but I don't really have that. I'm perfectly fine if that spell isn't as efficient as tools other classes have, and I'm fine if that spell isn't going to replace Mind Flay in a normal DPS rotation. It would just be nice to simply have the tool if it's needed. Call it a quality of life issue, I suppose.
Anyway, moving on. There's some stuff there about PvP and Diminishing Returns... but to be completely honest with all of you, I'm not going to trust myself to touch any of that. I'm intimately familiar with PvP issues that crop up in Battlegrounds like dispels and such, but I'm not going to get anywhere near primarily arena issues like who shares diminishing returns with who. If you're interested in that sort of thing, head over to the thread and read what Ghostcrawler has to say.

Every boss fight in Ulduar has high damaging abilities that a Shadow Priest might want to use Dispersion through to take the load off of Healers, or simply a last minute survival tactic, like a Mage's Ice Block. Using it in that way is certainly a sacrifice, since it cuts off our DPS due to the silence component (which I'm okay with in PvE, for the record). However... most of those things you want to 'shield wall' through for the sake of your healers? They pierce right through Dispersion. If you don't want the damage reduction to work in PvE, you might as well give it two rulesets like you did with Curse of Doom and pre-3.2 Exorcism. The tooltip as it stands is essentially a lie.
Examples of things Dispersion does not protect against: XT-002's Searing Light, Ignis the Furnace Master's Slag Pot, and Kologarn's Stone Grip. I could go deeper into Ulduar, but I don't really think I need to do that. Already, that's three out of the first five bosses of Ulduar that ignore Dispersion. That's a problem.
If the PvE and PvP rulesets are intended to be the same to keep the game easy to understand, then don't design abilities that you need to specifically design around when creating bosses. If Dispersion's damage reduction is a dangerous PvE mechanic for Priests to have, state clearly that the damage reduction will not work in PvE. Spells should, by and large, work as their tooltips say they work. This is not true with Dispersion in PvE in all of the situations you might want to actually use it. That is the biggest problem I see with Dispersion. Other Shadow Priests may disagree with me on what the base problem is, but there's my take.
The topic of Devouring Plague is another that grabbed my attention. Purplecadet, the person who started the thread, said, "From my understanding, there is a cooldown on Devouring Plague to keep us from putting it on multiple targets. Couldn't you just make Devouring Plague only usable on one target at a time and remove the cooldown?"
Ghostcrawler responds, "Yes. I'm not sure many players would consider that a buff though."
If players don't consider that a buff, they are mad. Like, mad cow mad. There aren't many other ways I can think to phrase that. The change described in the question would be an incredible improvement, especially in the endgame. There are endless situations in Ulduar where I sit on Devouring Plague for an incredibly long time (time is relative in battle), simply because I'm waiting for a boss to spawn an add or change phases or whatever else. Why? Because if I use Devouring Plague in that stretch of time between Devouring Plague expiring and the next phase starting, it won't be available when I really need it. It isn't a multiple mob issue. The issue is that I can't utlitize the spells given to my class that my DPS is balanced around. I have to put forth a subpar performance because I literally cannot use a spell that is a notable amount of my damage, because if I do use it at the wrong time, it won't be available when it really counts. That, quite honestly, sucks. It's not a DPS cooldown like Icy Veins or Blade Flurry, it's a core spell.
That was a lot of ranting, and probably a little more QQ than I would have liked! I suppose I'll include the disclaimer that I don't think Shadow Priests are in that bad of a spot right now. In fact, they're probably more fun to play than they were in The Burning Crusade, at least to me. It's nice being more competitive DPS-wise, and while we're not the PvP powerhouses we were in Vanilla WoW, we're not the sitting ducks we were in BC. We're pretty good! I just don't think that 'pretty good' should ever be good enough. Not for Shadow Priests, not for Priests in general, and not for any class. If Shadow Priests didn't change at all until the next expansion, I wouldn't stop playing my class. The situation isn't quite so dire. I just hope for a little love in the near future.
I also want to give Ghostcrawler a quick thanks. Shadow Priests have been waiting for some feedback for a long time, and while that doesn't mean you're obligated to give it to us, you did. Thank you. We don't agree on everything about the class and simply due to the nature of the game we never will, but I respect the time you took to answer the questions
Filed under: Priest, Patches, Analysis / Opinion






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Agerath Jul 2nd 2009 1:04PM
Woot. You need to double-check your HTML here, because everythin' on the site is in italics right now.
Ben Jul 2nd 2009 1:07PM
In the priest forum of Arenajunkies discussing this thread, high rated priests are pretty appalled at how many mistakes GC made when referencing certain abilities and how little he actually knows about the spec.
Gessilea Jul 2nd 2009 2:27PM
On the one hand, I see your point. On the other hand, it's fairly common knowledge that a lot of time when GC's answering posts, he's at home. That he doesn't have an encyclopedic knowledge of every spell in the game really shouldn't be all that surprising. It's also not surprising that the top theorycrafters in a particular spec would know more off the top of their head than someone whose job it is to address the game as a whole.
Heck, there are tons of aspects of my job that I have to look up to get the details right. Why should it be so different for GC? So the next thing is to say "well, GC should only answer questions when he's at work and can look stuff up." I'd bet that if that were the case, we'd be getting a whole lot fewer blue posts.
Jon Do Jul 2nd 2009 2:55PM
Wow.
I'm work in support for a computer company as an expert on specific products, and I can say that if I spoke in an official capacity about product functionality that was outside my area and got it wrong, I'd be in a lot of hot water in a hurry. "Working from home" is no excuse, because spreading misinformation is a lot more damaging than keeping your mouth shut until you can be sure it's right.
Eisengel Jul 2nd 2009 4:36PM
I've played my SPriest for a few years now... and whenever I talk about spells and mechanics in a post I'm always sure to hit up mmo-champion.com and look at the spell list, or shadowpriest.com and/or wowwiki.com and eltistjerks.com to check mechanics and formulae... and I'm just some shlub shelling out my $N a month to Blizz. I would expect the Lead Systems Developer to be able to do at least the same, or at least email the text of his post to an intern to fact-check. The fact that the Lead Systems Developer can't take the time to post correct data/info makes me wonder what other decisions or statements he may be making off the cuff without full knowledge - and if this behavior has propagated to the other various devs.
I recognize the tenor of the post is meant to casually discuss things and not an 'official statement on the issues of X in class Y' ... but I would be no less worried if the President of the United States was chatting casually with someone over breakfast and made an error when quoting the Constitution. GC should know how these things operate if he is going to comment on them. I make sure I know before I comment, and I'm not paid to lead the development of WoW.
Hagen Jul 2nd 2009 1:14PM
When in doubt, Mind Flay. If there are 3+ mobs, Mind Sear. This isn't rocket science. Yes our maximum DPS comes from the full rotation building everything up, but those 2 spells are at least useful on trash. Plenty of trash has has amounts of health, esp in Ulduar.
I'm not sure what GC is smoking tho when he says people wouldn't see a no cd but 1 target only DP as a buff. Currently if you throw it on a target, but that target gets powered down sooner than expected, you have the balance of the spell time to not cast it. Letting it run till the mob dies then immediately recasting on the next mob would be amazingly nice.
mel Jul 2nd 2009 1:27PM
Spammable nukes are for lazy players. That being said, I wouldn't turn down a new tool for the tool box.
The DP buff is a no brainer. A perfect example of where it is useful is Emalon. When an add is overcharged, getting DP up on that mob is good supplemental damage for the rest of your up front attacks, but you risk losing DPS on Emalon since that mob is down in 10 seconds (or else...).
Sengir Jul 2nd 2009 1:20PM
Oh friggin wah. Affliction warlock are in far worse shape right now.
Hagen Jul 2nd 2009 1:34PM
Debatable, but here is the lock QA. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/warlock.html
chevysdad07 Jul 2nd 2009 1:36PM
@ sengir
i fully agree even tho im not very far in the tree(lvl30) i still agree i recently went to destro because affl spec was lame compared to friends putting out higher dps with destro in just a few secs worth of a cast and kiting the mobs while i was DoTing them slowly
Therresa Jul 2nd 2009 1:42PM
Answering questions does not mean the class is in "bad shape". Everyone has questions about the future of their class no matter what they play. Less trolling ftw.
theRaptor Jul 2nd 2009 1:54PM
Oh noes, one of a DPS classes three DPS trees isn't as good as the others!!111111
Seriously does any class have three good DPS trees? Even DK's aren't equally PVE viable over all their trees. So you have to play as destro? BOO fricken HOO. I have wanted to play my Mage as arcane since classic and had a tiny window in BC where that was viable.
I rolled a shadow priest and if shadow is no good I stop playing my shadow priest, simple as that.
I am currently re-rolling an enh shaman because Blizzard won't make shadow priests scale properly (haste on gear for DoT heavy classes does not frigging work, sorry GC you can't reliable get enough spell power and crit gear) or bring adequate utility.
Robert M Jul 2nd 2009 2:21PM
@TheRetardedRaptor
The problem with desto is how much it feels like a mage. Though I do agree with you that it is difficult to make all of the trees viable, it is insulting to locks who enjoy playing locks and not mages, that we are no longer able to compete with dots. The great AoE patch of 2008 ruined affliction, and though it still has the potential to shine on boss fights when managed properly, it’s disheartening to know that your overall number suffer because Blizzard decided to dumb down the game to make blizzard, volley, and rain of fire popular.
elvendude Jul 2nd 2009 2:39PM
@theRaptor
You're wailing to the Aff Lock that haste doesn't help a DoT class? That's ballsy.
And, first and foremost, while spriest has dots and relies on them, I do not consider myself a dot class. If I were a dot class, then I wouldn't go balls to the wall when Bloodlust drops. As it stands, I do. I channel that Mind Flay like it's the Titan's gift to DPS when I hear a Tauren go ape shit.
Yes, we have DoTs. Yeah, haste helping DoTs would definitely help us. But, really...don't QQ to the aff lock, K? He really does have it much worse than you. (Just imagine if they took away Vampiric Touch and rolled the Replenishment into SW:P. That's about what happened to Aff locks.)
Clarence Rubin Jul 4th 2009 1:39PM
@Robert M
I agree that it feels too mage-like playing destro, but "The great AoE patch of 2008 ruined affliction"? I've seen 19k DPS on AoE trash pulls with Seed of Corruption. Seriously. Affliction's AoE is far better than Destro's Rain of Fire.
It was 3.1, not 3.0, that made affliction sub-par, and the problem is that it's sub-par on boss fights, not AoE trash pulls.
Nefthys of Blackhand Jul 2nd 2009 1:45PM
I agree that Dispersion is still jacked up, to put it plainly. It puzzles me that they negate it's affects on certain bosses in Ulduar. I suppose at least I can still use it to eat an Overload on IC... but still.
serf Jul 2nd 2009 1:53PM
I have to agree about DP. I don't understand what could possibly make GC think that the proposed change would be viewed as anything other than a buff.
Eisengel Jul 2nd 2009 4:40PM
In fact... they may be able to fix two problems at once by removing the hard lockout on DvP. It does some pretty weak up-front damage... but it does pretty weak up-front damage, and without a hard lockout it would be spammable since it's instant cast. Shadowpriests need a situational spammable weak nuke? Hrm... I wonder where that would come from? It is also a expensive spell to cast, so that would also limit you standing there and just spamming DvP all day, but I think a no-CD DvP would not only make the spell much more useful as a DoT, but also fill a niche of a spammable direct-damage nuke.
telltalehart Jul 2nd 2009 1:57PM
I agree with your point about Dispersion. It could use some work. I use as my out of mana "oh S**T" button if I need some extra mana...not at all for damage reduction, and among my friends, I'm not the only one who only uses it for mana regen.
And that regen is useful when stunned since I can't do anything else.
Feng Houzi Jul 2nd 2009 2:28PM
Agreed, i do the same... I use shadowfiend, arcane torrent, and dispersion as my mana batteries... if rotated properly, you never run outta mana... a really useful tool is to use the arcane torrent, pop the shadowfiend, then hit dispersion... at least one baddie is gonna focus on the shadowfiend and you are gonna walk away with a full mana bar.. Shadowpriests FTW!!!