Shadow Priest questions answered

I strongly recommend reading the whole thing on the official forums, but I'm going to pull out some bits and pieces here.
The first big thing that jumped out to me was in response to a question regarding Haste and DoTs. Have they considered DoTs scaling with Haste? Ghostcrawler says... yes! It's something they're apparently actively discussing. That doesn't guarantee we'll see it, but the fact that they're talking about it is promising.
Ghostcrawler also answers a question about dispel protection. Is it a problem? Are there plans to fix it, if so? Ghostcrawler says straight up that "the whole spell protection game needs to be overhauled." That's not the first time we've heard it, and it's good to see they're still of that opinion. Also, Ghostcrawler reinforces something I've been saying since they implemented the mechanic: The penalty for dispelling Vampiric Touch is "so low as to be silly," and says, "that's something we would like to boost for 3.2." Yes! I've argued since day one that the Vampiric Touch protection is far, far too conservative to be useful. It might as well not exist. I eagerly await the upcoming changes, whatever they may be.
On the topic of Shadow Priest damage taking so long to 'set up' compared to most other classes, Ghostcrawler says, "We would not want any spell that Shadow Priests felt like they could just cast instead of doing their rotation, and if the instant-damage spell was weaker than the rotation, it would likely see only situational use (though maybe that's a fine niche)." Greg, my buddy. Greg, my pal. A situational nuke is exactly something that Shadow Priests need these days.
A spammable (emphasis on spammable, Mind Blast is definitely not able to be spammed) nuke that is lower DPS than Mind Flay but higher front-loaded damage than Flay is a tool Shadow Priests could make great use out of in Ulduar, and even other places. There are situations in Ulduar where you have a mob with health so low that by the time you roll out your full rotation to get your damage started, the mob is dead and you haven't actually made an impact. But their health is high enough that just throwing out a Mind Blast and a Shadow Word: Death doesn't cut it, or the mobs are coming frequently enough that those two spells are eternally on cooldown and you just get to stand around with your you-know-what in your hands trying to figure out what to do to help.
The usual solution to this problem is that Shadow Priests simply pretend there are no adds, and DPS away without a care in the world on the boss or whatever. That's called not being a team player, and that's the playstyle our mechanics encourage. If things are going to Hell, I would love a tool that will let me lend a hand, but I don't really have that. I'm perfectly fine if that spell isn't as efficient as tools other classes have, and I'm fine if that spell isn't going to replace Mind Flay in a normal DPS rotation. It would just be nice to simply have the tool if it's needed. Call it a quality of life issue, I suppose.
Anyway, moving on. There's some stuff there about PvP and Diminishing Returns... but to be completely honest with all of you, I'm not going to trust myself to touch any of that. I'm intimately familiar with PvP issues that crop up in Battlegrounds like dispels and such, but I'm not going to get anywhere near primarily arena issues like who shares diminishing returns with who. If you're interested in that sort of thing, head over to the thread and read what Ghostcrawler has to say.

Every boss fight in Ulduar has high damaging abilities that a Shadow Priest might want to use Dispersion through to take the load off of Healers, or simply a last minute survival tactic, like a Mage's Ice Block. Using it in that way is certainly a sacrifice, since it cuts off our DPS due to the silence component (which I'm okay with in PvE, for the record). However... most of those things you want to 'shield wall' through for the sake of your healers? They pierce right through Dispersion. If you don't want the damage reduction to work in PvE, you might as well give it two rulesets like you did with Curse of Doom and pre-3.2 Exorcism. The tooltip as it stands is essentially a lie.
Examples of things Dispersion does not protect against: XT-002's Searing Light, Ignis the Furnace Master's Slag Pot, and Kologarn's Stone Grip. I could go deeper into Ulduar, but I don't really think I need to do that. Already, that's three out of the first five bosses of Ulduar that ignore Dispersion. That's a problem.
If the PvE and PvP rulesets are intended to be the same to keep the game easy to understand, then don't design abilities that you need to specifically design around when creating bosses. If Dispersion's damage reduction is a dangerous PvE mechanic for Priests to have, state clearly that the damage reduction will not work in PvE. Spells should, by and large, work as their tooltips say they work. This is not true with Dispersion in PvE in all of the situations you might want to actually use it. That is the biggest problem I see with Dispersion. Other Shadow Priests may disagree with me on what the base problem is, but there's my take.
The topic of Devouring Plague is another that grabbed my attention. Purplecadet, the person who started the thread, said, "From my understanding, there is a cooldown on Devouring Plague to keep us from putting it on multiple targets. Couldn't you just make Devouring Plague only usable on one target at a time and remove the cooldown?"
Ghostcrawler responds, "Yes. I'm not sure many players would consider that a buff though."
If players don't consider that a buff, they are mad. Like, mad cow mad. There aren't many other ways I can think to phrase that. The change described in the question would be an incredible improvement, especially in the endgame. There are endless situations in Ulduar where I sit on Devouring Plague for an incredibly long time (time is relative in battle), simply because I'm waiting for a boss to spawn an add or change phases or whatever else. Why? Because if I use Devouring Plague in that stretch of time between Devouring Plague expiring and the next phase starting, it won't be available when I really need it. It isn't a multiple mob issue. The issue is that I can't utlitize the spells given to my class that my DPS is balanced around. I have to put forth a subpar performance because I literally cannot use a spell that is a notable amount of my damage, because if I do use it at the wrong time, it won't be available when it really counts. That, quite honestly, sucks. It's not a DPS cooldown like Icy Veins or Blade Flurry, it's a core spell.
That was a lot of ranting, and probably a little more QQ than I would have liked! I suppose I'll include the disclaimer that I don't think Shadow Priests are in that bad of a spot right now. In fact, they're probably more fun to play than they were in The Burning Crusade, at least to me. It's nice being more competitive DPS-wise, and while we're not the PvP powerhouses we were in Vanilla WoW, we're not the sitting ducks we were in BC. We're pretty good! I just don't think that 'pretty good' should ever be good enough. Not for Shadow Priests, not for Priests in general, and not for any class. If Shadow Priests didn't change at all until the next expansion, I wouldn't stop playing my class. The situation isn't quite so dire. I just hope for a little love in the near future.
I also want to give Ghostcrawler a quick thanks. Shadow Priests have been waiting for some feedback for a long time, and while that doesn't mean you're obligated to give it to us, you did. Thank you. We don't agree on everything about the class and simply due to the nature of the game we never will, but I respect the time you took to answer the questions
Filed under: Priest, Patches, Analysis / Opinion
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
indígo Jul 2nd 2009 2:54PM
reply to Feng Houzi
LIES!!!
Arcane torrent is not a Shadow Priest spell fool.
telltalehart Jul 2nd 2009 5:16PM
Indigo is right. Its a racial. A nice bonus to being a BElf Priest. I however, am Undead...I get to eat dead humanoids and breath underwater for a long time....
tkc Jul 2nd 2009 2:12PM
For the love of god can Mind Sear please do damage to the target that it is hitting.
telltalehart Jul 2nd 2009 2:18PM
Here here! I usually try to drop at least SW:P on the target of Mind Sear just so it suffers to. It's almost like they are immune to AoE....which shouldn't be possible if you are in the area of the darn effect.
Noraa Jul 2nd 2009 2:35PM
Yes sir! Exactly
Eisengel Jul 2nd 2009 4:56PM
I can see why Mind Sear doesn't affect the target you cast it on, because I had this trouble in BC. If I did full damage on the focus target, I would kill it quickly and wouldn't be able to set up a damage rotation. Then I'd switch to the next focus target.. and same thing. Mind Sear would work much better if mobs were BC-era tough. You'd Mind Sear on the focus target, hit everything around it, and do more damage overall since the focus target lived longer... so Mind Sear would be able to hit the other mobs its AoE longer. The problem is this is solving a BC-era problem... the landscape in Wrath is very different. Pretty much everyone and their 3rd cousin once removed as pretty strong AoE, and not being able to hit the focus target with our AoE actually hurts us now damage-wise since everyone is hitting all the targets.
I'm not too sure what the solution should be... since I'd need to know where Blizz is going with the next expansion and encounter design. If we're going to see more easily-AoEable mobs packs and a continuation of no to little CC, yes we need Mind Sear to damage the target. If we're going to get tougher mob packs (like heroic BF) where the entire party has to focus down a target at a time, then Mind Sear may be in a good spot right now.
OIK2 Jul 2nd 2009 2:16PM
DP: Please fix! I hate sitting on it, but sometimes it is the only way to damage those that need damage most even more.
Spamable Nuke: Please! Once I have dropped any dots that need refreshed, and Death(I only use it when I am moving...if I am still I am better off using MF) I can do nothing but run. Make it hit about the same as 1 tick of MF, and you have a spell that is 2/3 as effective as MF(3 ticks in 2 GCD on MF, compared to 2 bursts in 2 GCD on this imaginary nuke)
Dispersion: Either give it back it's health regen to make it more useful in PvP situations, add some form of utility to it(Fade+dispersion=vanish? would make u use 2CDs and silence u for 6 secs, but would be great for getting outta a bad situation, and fit lorewise), or lower it's position in the tree and give us a big boom.
Haste: Get it off of my set! Mind flay is the only thing that really benefits much at high levels, and not enough to make it worth it. I just dropped 4 peice t8.5 for robes that have a more crit. Will get 4 piece again when I get my shoulders, unless I can replace the pants. Or make my DoTs tick faster...I hate all that wasted itemization.
yunkndatwunk Jul 2nd 2009 2:17PM
I didn't realize dispersion doesn't work on Slag Pot since even rogue's Fade works. Fading out of fire? Who'd have thunk? But it works.
I mainly use it for mana regen.
Eisengel Jul 2nd 2009 5:01PM
Fade? Do you mean Vanish?
If so... yes. Since Vanish dumps threat (or is supposed to), it often would clear damaging effects cast on you from a mob, since they would pop you right back out of stealth. I remember Vanishing out of Moroes' killer bleed effect on my Rogue back in the day in Kara... before that was fixed. Rogue Vanish is close to Mage Iceblock, it clears a lot of effects that don't necessarily make sense for it to clear since it is a strong defensive CD. Then again... we have fireball-casting Trolls riding motorcycles in a floating city, some suspension of disbelief may be required.
Spriesty Jul 2nd 2009 2:38PM
I only use it when I really need it because it stops my rotation and I end up needing to almost 'setup' again. So even if I do use it I almost always cancel it early.
The setup is the thing about Shadowpriests, you can't crank out good dps until your setup and Ulduar is a pia for that. Constant movement, target switching, finding a shadowcrash, etc. Even the occasional one that might be ok with that, like Decon...I end up on bot duty, lol. In TK or something I could have gotten away with just staying on the boss and ignoring the instructions knowing they didn't apply to me, haha. But I think they might notice bots getting eaten.
Candina@WH Jul 2nd 2009 2:40PM
Dispersion: How about you make the Tool Tip true? Make it reduce 90% of damage, clear snares and make you immune to movement imparing effects. I mean, that would be a wonderful power to have.
As it is... I get killed, stunned, blinded all through Dispersion.
How about, drop dispersion, fold it's mana regen function into Fade (maybe fade should hit us with a haste debuf?) and give us a 51 point power - Mind Lance. Basically Ice Lance for Shadow Priests.
[on the other hand, I am a bit disgruntled that I would happil swap out my 51 point DPS tree talent for a mage level 66 baseline ability....]
elvendude Jul 2nd 2009 2:48PM
Interesting...very interesting. I think I like your ideas.
Robert M Jul 2nd 2009 4:37PM
I like the ideas as well. I always thought of aff locks as self servign shadow priests. It would be awesome if shadow priests got a haunt like ability that instead of healing themselves exploded for an AoE heal, a Vampyric Bomb maybe?
Sanguinefrozenboy Jul 2nd 2009 2:45PM
I love it when you write about shadow priests since you always seem to know what you're talking about. I'm not fond of the 'spiritual guidance' section because it doesnt' cover shadow since it's essentially a priest healer column.
Bahamut Jul 2nd 2009 4:58PM
I'm a Shadow Priest, from the beginning. I've changed spec only when Dual Spec come out, but Shadow will always be my main spec and the one I use for raids.
After reading the whole Q&A thread, I totally agree with Quizshow:
"He makes and excellent point, GC, about shammies being the only class with the most powerful buff in that game--and I'm sure that a shammies would get that last spot you talk about over another caster type. I think removing the mana battery aspect from spriest really diminished the spec. We are getting out-dpsed by OP ret pallies and hunters who now can fill our niche with Replenishment (which is getting nerfed yet again next patch). "
[...]
"Overall one of two things needs to happen:
1. Shadow needs to reclaim it's niche as the unique mana battery for raids.
--or--
2. We need a damage increase buff to make us competitive with other hybrids such as boomkins and ele shammies--especially in terms of up-front damage and instant nukes (ones that do not damage us as SW:D does, please, which most spriests rarely ever use). "
Freyal Jul 2nd 2009 5:03PM
When on earth will Shadow Priests have a "cool down" to blow during the last press for dps on a boss fight right before enrage? Every other DPS class seems to have cool downs to blow that substationaly increase their dps. Not to mention that when a shamn blows heroism, Shadow Priests are the class that benefits LEAST from this added bounus, WHY???
The time has come.
Chirri Jul 5th 2009 6:14PM
Even as a Holy Priest I feel very dissatisfied with the current incarnation of Devouring Plague. When I'm out soloing, or even when I'm being very naughty during a raid, I'll add my own pitiful DPS when things are going smoothly, the Devouring Plague cooldown feels ridiculous.
I feel penalized for using all the tools available to me.
cassandri Jul 14th 2009 7:55AM
Wow, Alex, just wow. You nailed it. This is *exactly* how I feel playing my spriest.
"The usual solution to this problem is that Shadow Priests simply pretend there are no adds, and DPS away without a care in the world on the boss or whatever."
You couldn't be more right here. The other spriest in my guild flat out said that he would not break npcs out of ice blocks in the Hodir fight. He cited "breaking rotation" and "costing too much mana" and just whaled away at the boss.
Your comments regarding Devouring Plague mirrored my reactions upon reading the informal Q&A on the forums - the 1 target & long cd restrictions on Devouring Plague make it a real issue. I'd take any improvement (multiple targets or 1 target/no cooldown) as a huge buff to an annoying situation. I let my Dev Plague drop off for quite a long time in the XT fight so I can be sure to hit the heart with it. You *cannot* afford to lose the Dev Plague dps on the heart phase.
Players often accuse official Blizzard representatives of not playing their class "it's obvious you don't even play a priest or you'd understand..." but I know by reading 1 paragraph into your article that you're right on the same page as the rest of us Alex.
thanks again for a great read.
Silvira Jul 28th 2009 2:27PM
I feel that shadow pve is fine for the most part, however i don't do much of that myself. my concern lies in the pvp aspect of a shadow priest, we get mowed down waaay before we've had time to study the enemy and throw all our dots up (especially DKs that shield right after we're done the GG). removing the CD on devouring plague was helpful, in case it gets dispelled immediately. the new MS effect on mind blast will help, but what most competetive shadow priests want is more escapability =/ dispersion was an interesting idea, however it allows the enemy to: dot you up safely, heal themselves, and get ready to mow you down. it doesn't really help that you're silenced and take damage anyways in dispersion. several reasons i leave it out of my spec. giving an immunity to snares for the duration of fade would be very helpful, since we all know that rogues can simply stun you and throw all their slows back on and fade is useless for desecration with DKs. maybe an invisibility? we need something unless they buff fade :o wall of text has ended.
Columhcille Aug 3rd 2009 12:03PM
I agree that for as long as the set up takes, the dmg of shadow priests still doesn't compare to that of other classes quite- just slightly lacking in my oppinion. I've played my Spriest [only shadow spec] for four years and always feel a step behind -if i'm raiding on my priest with the guild I'm in, of exceptionally geared and exceptionally skilled and knowledgeable players. However, I don't feel that Spriest dmg is totally lacking either...I've just met a LOT of spriests that don't understand the spec and rotations or situational uses of spells in order to do the output.
As far as DP, the doing away with any timer on it so that you could swap it from one mob to another soon as one is dead, would be fantastic!
For those spriests who'd like to see DP as a spell able to be placed on multiple mobs, just stay grouped with DKs. Most groups have at least one DK in them now anyway, but DK abilities will spread your DP to other mobs, just like it spreads the DKs own diseases. :) Yay for DKs! Unless they fixed this since the last time I noticed its occurence.
I don't know how I feel about adding any other spells to the Spriest repitoir; i think what we have is workable with most groupings of mobs, unless the group is over-geared for a dungeon and mob HP is too low to even get one Mind Sear off. You just have to understand situational uses of spells and keep as much ACTIVE time casting as possible for max output. Active time casting is your best friend!