WoW Insider Show Episode 97: Chasing silhouettes
by Mike Schramm 
Jul 6th 2009 at 1:00PM
Good times as always on our podcast this past holiday weekend -- while Turpster was away, we Americans took over the show, and declared our independence the only way we know how: by talking about the most popular stories in the World of Warcraft this past week. Adam Holisky, Alex Ziebart, Michael "Belfaire" Sacco and I answered your emails, and then chatted about Blizzard's addition of faction changes to the game (and who'll go for it), patch 3.2 and its extendable raid lockouts and universal armor tokens, Exodus and Ensidia and how Blizzard has dealt with both, and of course, that sneaky Cataclysm trademark and what it might mean for Blizzard's future releases.Whew! If it sounds like a full show, that's because it was. It even went on longer than usual, so you can enjoy the extra-long WoW Insider Show at any of the links below (including clicking on the iTunes link to subscribe directly there). We won't be back next Saturday -- instead, we're setting up for a special Thursday evening show this week at 6pm Eastern, so those of you who can't make it on Saturdays can instead tune in on Thursday night to chat and listen live with us on the Ustream page.
Enjoy this past weekend's show, and we'll see you on Thursday.
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Filed under: Podcasts, Podcasting, WoW Insider Show, Analysis / Opinion, Virtual selves, Humor, Raiding, Making money
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Don Jul 6th 2009 1:36PM
iTunes isn't getting your uploads. It doesn't even have last week's show up yet. Last available show through iTunes is 6/22/09
tmenssen Jul 6th 2009 2:48PM
I just checked the Podcast listings from my iPod touch and it's listed on there now, though it wasn't when I started listening directly from the article here.
Great show once again guys. I love that I finally have a reason to look forward to going to work on Mondays.
durkle Jul 6th 2009 3:43PM
the last several podcasts i've downloaded from itunes have had sound issues. the host is extremely faint. Everyone else is load and clear. If you adjust the volume for the host you get your ears blown out when anyone else speaks or turpster breathes into the mike. If you adust for everyone else the host is nearly inaudible. Happens on my PC, iphone, and an old creative mp3 player i dug out to try it.
just thought you should know.
thx
pooch Jul 6th 2009 4:18PM
nice show :D. I think the topic of the Exodus exploit has become quite divisive and hijacked by trolls creating a US vs EU mentality on forums. It would be nice to see cooler heads prevail... check out mmo-champs forum thread on this topic, there are over 53 pages of these narrow minded arguments. A great deal of it has been removed or moderated now
Mazul Jul 6th 2009 9:15PM
Oh and you really think that the "discussion" they had on the show was cool headed, it was in no way better than the troll bashing that has happend every other place...
As other ppl also said, this part was a whole new low for the site/show.
Niclas Jul 6th 2009 4:50PM
Usually a big fan of the show, but the Ensidia vs Exodus discussion was probably a new low for the show. Come on guys, you are above the 10 year old trolls spamming the official forums with rumors and whine.
Also, just wanted to clarify a few things.
- The Judgment of Light "exploit" is a UI glitch which does not effect the gameplay.
- Ensidia had Lady Vashj despawn on them, that was also a bug, not an exploit.
- The Spellstealing have never gotten anyone banned. Anyone remember the fire resistance buffs through Mind Controll in LBRS?
- Exploiting bosses through evade always gets you banned. I got a temporary ban for evading the tiger boss in ZG into phase two while mount farming :D
I can not believe you guys somehow tried to defend Exodus. In reading their responses to this they sound like a bunch of whiny kinds. I have played with countless Americans over the years and almost all of them have been very friendly and mature. Everybody should throw some hate Exodus's way for making the American raiding scene look bad.
n3ther Jul 7th 2009 4:41PM
A disclaimer I need to place at the start to prevent people from misunderstanding my stance on the issue: I don't agree with any type of exploiting and do not side with either Ensidia or Exodus.
A rational person can agree that Exodus deserved their temporary ban and could have been more mature about the entire situation.
I'm sure Ensidia's smugness is fortified by this event. (Yes this could be a jab at Ensidia because I hate elitists and there is no doubt that Ensidia contains some but I do apologize to the more humble players of Ensidia.)
@ Niclas:
Before you try to blurt out your personal facts perhaps you should confirm whether or not players have been banned for using spellsteal "creatively."
Because if you did indeed do a little research then you would find that players have been banned for exploiting spellsteal within Naxxramas: the bone shield stolen from the Death Knights in the Military quarter.
Your example is also incorrect. the fire resist buff was given by the mob through mind control. Spell Steal did not exist in Classic WoW.
@Eoy:
Your credibility can not be trusted for several reasons.
You are either the Eoy of Ensidia and will obviously defend them regardless of the truth.
You are not the Eoy of Ensidia and can not have any merit since you have no proof.
Herein lies the dilemma that someone will most certainly point out. But if neither a player of Ensida nor a player outside of Ensidia can be trusted with telling the truth, how can we know the truth? That is exactly why the only way to know the truth is through proof such as video evidence. Words are empty and here this is very true. Why would Ensidia lie? The top leading guild would never lie to the masses, right? By lying, they defend their titles and no one is the wiser.
The only people who know exactly how they did the fights are their own players and the blizzard reps that were most likely watching them in game. And it will remain this way for the end of WoW.
In the end I wonder why I spent time writing this post but I guess I want to promote curiosity.
Niclas Jul 7th 2009 6:00PM
@n3ther If you read what I wrote again you will see that I actually wrote "through Mind Controll". My point being that they are pretty much the same use of mechanic. I see your point regarding the mage in Naxxramas, he should not have been banned. Although there is a difference between killing an unkillable boss (Hodir was buffed mid progress race), reporting how they did it after and soloing the entire military wing.
Regarding Ensidias smugness and elitist behavior. If you visit their site and look around you will find that they are very friendly. Their community have become one of the WoW resources I use for improving my game play. They share their knowledge in class guides and extensive forum posts. So not are they only good players but they share their knowledge as well. I agree that they might seem elitist some times, but at least they are friendly.
I realize that I might come off as an Ensidia fanboy in this thread, well so be it then. But the comments made during the show pissed me off quite a bit making me completely side with them here in this thread.
eoy Jul 7th 2009 6:53PM
@n3ther
I am indeed eoy from ensidia, but that doesn't make my points any less accurate. There is absolutely nothing that says that any of the claims of exploits used by Ensidia on the show have any piece of truth in them, besides Hodir that we admitted right away. That wasn't a World First Kill either way, the boss had already been killed by several guilds in it's former easier versions, and quoting mek: "This is not a World First, it has no meaning at all".
Basically what I'm saying is that you need something to back up your claims with other than rumours fabricated by Ensidia haters, or you're going to end up sounding like bad tabloid.
mwadstrom Jul 6th 2009 7:06PM
Niclas - agree fully
Seriously I've been a long time fan of this show, but now I don't know anymore. I really lost a lot of respect for this podcast. Like Niclas' said you sounded like the Eu bashing forum trolls. Do you seriously think there's some sort of Blizzard / Ensidia conspiracy, that is just completely ... "close working relationship with the developers" - hahahaha
"Exodus exploited but were honest about it later" ???!!! Did I miss something? Exodus came out and claimed world 1st, said they had incredible luck and would probably not be able to reproduce it. You think that is honest? If Exodus would have been honest from start and reported it I'm sure they would not have received their ban.
eoy Jul 6th 2009 7:10PM
Maybe the reason Ensidia doesn't get banned is because everything you're claiming is just rumours that have no truth in them.
Yes they spellstole buffs to kill the 2min version of Hodir - and made it with less than a second left. This was also a fight that had been buffed during the progress race after guilds had already killed it. The 2min version of the fight was impossible at the time.
There was no exploit by Nihilum on C'thun, just because an exploit exists doesn't mean Nihilum used it.
There was no exploit on Vashj, just a bug.
There was no exploit on Mimiron, ui glitch. There's wws and a lot of talk about this and other exploits @ http://ensidia.com/community/post/2369/ .
There was no exploit on Vaelestratz, just because other guilds did this doesn't mean Nihilum did.
There was no exploit by Nihilum on Twins, there's a movie out showing the fight. Just because other guilds did this doesn't mean Nihilum did.
There was no exploit by NIhilum on Archimonde, just because other guilds did this doesn't mean Nihilum did.
There is nothing official said about Ensidia's sponsor, so it might be Bill Gates for all I know. Ensidia has however said on many places that they don't get payed to play. http://ensidia.com/community/blogs/356.html
And last but not least Ensidia != Nihilum. There's more players that weren't in Nihilum than players that were in the guild.
pr1me Jul 6th 2009 10:46PM
Seriously, check the audio levels on these shows before you record or something. I've enjoyed the programs in the past but there's almost always at least one person who is terribly quiet while everyone else is loud and clear.
Mike also has a way of starting off a sentence at a strong/confident volume and then gradually trailing off, fading to a low mumble. People want to hear what you're saying. Say it like you mean it, man!
Kamori Jul 7th 2009 12:02AM
@ Mezul, read the post again. pooch said 'It would be nice....'
@ eoy, your post was very informative. I assume you're "the" eoy from ensidia. Great spriest guide (reading it atm and putting it into practice) but I still don't buy your reasoning on Hodir's spellsteal. It is a buff that is not meant to be used in the fight.
I'm not a fan boy of either guild. I'm not even raiding atm. But from where I'm sitting here Exodus is not looking good. Ensidia seemed to have all the explanation and materials to back it up. Exodus have zero.
What ever is it that Ensidia had done does not justify the lies and mudslinging.
This would have been a great episode had the show invited both guild's representative and did a thorough interview. It would put this issue to bed and clarify facts.
Hopefully there's a podcast out there that will do this soon. I bet you'll get good ratings.
reader1234 Jul 7th 2009 3:47AM
Got to agree with many of the above posters; repeating rumours without any sort of evidence to back it up is pretty poor form.
Anyone equating what Exodus did (evade bug, lie about it and claim the world first) with what Ensidia did (spell steal a buff to kill a boss that was made mathematically impossible after others had killed it. Tell everyone this is what they'd done, and made sure no-one thought the kill was in any way legitimate) is working off a very different set of morals to me.
The other examples given of Nihilum exploits are without exception unfounded. I've not seen a single bit of evidence to support any of those claims.
Overall, very disappointed with the commentary on it.
Tilman Jul 7th 2009 4:07AM
I really have to agree with the people here. What you said about the Ensidia vs. Exodus situation was way off. It's okay if you want to side with Exodus because you felt all 4th-of-july-ish that day but PLEASE get your facts right.
If you check for the relevant thread in Ensidia's forums you will find that noone from Ensidia ever accused Exodus of exploiting.
They did however say that they found an exploit that would make the whole fight trivial, informed blizzard about it but did not use it.
While the whole "Ensidia did use exploits too"-thing is perhaps an interesting discussion, it is in no way relevant to the issue at hand:
1. Exodus exploited but claims it's a legit kill
2. Exodus gets caught
3. Exodus publishes a childish and hateful statement on their homepage
if you now discuss about their accusations instead of their cheating you really miss the point.
teapot Jul 7th 2009 11:32AM
And I guess I'll repeat the, "This is a new low."
I checked the ensidia fight right after the world first was declared. The only thing that was there was a "Exodus World First" and a thread congratulating them, there was no smack talking except maybe in the forum or the comments, but It's not like that's their problem.
Right now the post on Ensidia is not "bashing" Exodus either.
teapot Jul 7th 2009 11:33AM
*site not fight.
Nim Jul 7th 2009 12:21PM
How about some fact checking, before you start running your mouth and telling everybody how full of shit they are?
Tad Jul 7th 2009 2:49PM
The audio levels were really bad. I could barley hear Mike and the guests were so loud that it hurt my ears.
jonas Jul 7th 2009 4:51PM
enjoyed very much and today was more of a serious podcast which is good, turpster nice guy but too much fooling around for me and nice to lose the cackling female druid from UK who often seems to laugh at every turpster joke.
These guests were more of what this show needs, Mike as good as ever.