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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsClass Q&A: Paladin
by Eliah Hecht 
Jul 9th 2009 at 2:00PM
Once again, it's time for a Class Q&A with Ghostcrawler! Today Paladins get their chance to shine (previously: Shaman, Mage, Death Knight, Warlock).
As with the other Q&As, this one starts with a bit on what the idea is behind paladins, with a glance at their history and at their present.
- In the beginning: paladins were a "defensive buffing class...buffs were pretty much the entire reason you'd want to group with a paladin."
- End-game classic WoW: paladins were healers only.
- BC: paladins could tank, but were still mostly OTs.
- Wrath: "finally embraced all three specs."
Paladins still have several unique facets: bubbles, strong dispels, plate armor as a healer, and the Seal and Judgment system.
Itemization: so far in Wrath, MP5 wasn't particularly valuable, and they claim it wasn't inteded to be. They still think MP5 is undervalued right now, though, hence the buffs coming to it in patch 3.2. They also think Int/Crit based mana regen is a bit out of control, and furthermore than in patch 3.2, some Holy pallies might look into taking Haste.
At this point they drop a hint that is interesting for all caster classes: they're considering collapsing MP5 and Spirit into one stat. This is for the farther future, though.
Paladins can expect to see "other interesting healing spells" later on, but not in 3.2, and don't expect "something that looks like Prayer of Healing or Wild Growth." Flash of Light should be more valuable now with the Sacred Shield changes, and the Beacon changes should make paladins "an exceptional dual target healer" (is that a valuable role?).
Ret PvE DPS is too low right now; they're buffing it with the new Seal of Vengeance/Corruption. SoV is aimed towards boss fights, since it works best once the pally gets five stacks up; Seal of Command is for short PvP or PvE fights.
The change to Exorcism (adding a cast time) means Rets have to pay a bit more attention to their rotation - you want to use Exorcism with Art of War procs, most of the time. To compensate for the nerf to Prot that his change brings, they also buffed Hand of Reckoning.
On the topic of Avenging Wrath and possible dispel immunity ("possible but not probable"), they mention again that they want to redo the entire dispelling system. One method they suggest is to give defensive magic dispelling to all healers, but prevent offensive dispelling entirely, or at least for most buffs.
They would like to add a "stand-alone interrupt" to pallies, although they need to get Ret burst down a bit still first before giving them more tools. As far as escape and gap-closer abilities, Judgment of Justice is meant to be pallies' gap-closer.
Finally, they would like to make Librams visible on the Paladin models, but this might take a while. The same goes for Shaman totems and Hunter quivers (but I thought they were getting rid of quivers).
Is it just me, or is this Q&A even fluffier and more content-free than the ones we've gotten so far? I guess they just don't have a lot of Paladin news to talk about that we haven't already seen in the patch 3.2 notes.
Patch 3.2 will bring about a new 5, 10, and 25 man instance to WoW, and usher in a new 40-man battleground called the Isle of Conquest. WoW.com will have you covered every step of the way, from extensive PTR coverage through the official live release. Check out WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.2 for all the latest!
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
Ensane Jul 9th 2009 5:01PM
I dont get why everyone thinks ret is so op. As of 3.1 ret had the lowest dps in ulduar and did pretty fail in arena. Ret really only excels in world pvp because of bubble and lay on hands (which isnt usable in arenas), giving them two fight resets. Plus they are the easiest melee class to kill for any skilled pvper. I guess people think they are op because they don't play a ret themselves. Then they would understand all it takes is two snare abilities to completely kite them.
However, i would agree that warriors have no chance in hell against a ret (except for prot) and rogues actually have to be good to beat them.
turkeyspit Jul 9th 2009 9:48PM
@Ensane
It's because of "ZOMG, that Ret Paladin killed me inside of a HOJ and I have 10000 Resilience" posts that you see all over the place.
Interesting thing about such posts...they hold the same weight as "ZOMG, that Rogue stunlocked me from 100%-0%" and "ZOMG, that Warlock just spammed Fear and DoTs and I died (pre-WoTLK "fear" fixes)"
Do Rets kill people inside an HoJ? Sure. Do they kill alot of people like that? Hell no.
Even in BGs where people's gear and skill are often questionable, I'll occasionally come across a 0 resilience Druid which I cut in two (Judgement + CS + HoW is all I need usually), but for everyone of those, i see twice as many Trees who just kite me around while I futilely try to drop their health to execute range (and even if I get there, hope my GCD is up to cast Hammer of Wrath before they heal).
Everyone has been killed by a Ret inside an HoJ stun. The illusion though is that every Ret is killing everyone inside an HoJ, which is just not the case.
But butthurt people will be butthurt, and butthurt people complain to anyone who will listen/read.
breaklance Jul 9th 2009 2:33PM
They already announced so many changes to paladins a week after their Q&A I weep for shamans...
Nay scratch that....I'm pissed for shamans. First Q&A recieves 6 changes to resto and 1 to enh >>>>>>>>>BUT THE NEW UI
Tharina Jul 9th 2009 2:36PM
I think it's just a bad time right now for these q&a's, there are many changes underway and in development but we won't hear about them for some time, Blizzcon should be interesting however.
Nick S Jul 9th 2009 2:36PM
Not a great Q&A...
I wish they'd talk about Paladin healing with some realism... the Beacon and FoL changes are nice, but when the whole raid gets whomped (i.e. XT, Ignis, Kolo, Hodir, etc, etc, etc, etc) Paladins will still be badly behind. WTF use is dual-target healing?
Clevins Jul 9th 2009 2:59PM
They've covered this ad nauseaum. If you give pallies an AoE heal you're 1) lsoing differentiation between the healing classes yet again and 2) it's a bit OP - you want pallies to be awesome tank heals and great AoE... but then why bring anyone else?
Look at priests - if you want to raid/AoE heal you want to be Holy. But then your tank healing isn't really viable (in raids I mean). Want to be able to be a very good tank healer? Spec Disc... but then your AoE healing suffers drastically. With only one healing tree, pallys need to be slotted into one or the other - either viable single target healers OR raid healers. Making them both in one tree would be completely OP.
The situation isn't perfect now, but priests do two different healing roles well, druids are great with their HoTs and pallys are great tank healers. Blurring the roles more isn't the answer. We can't always look over at other classes and say "I want that!" unless we want to end up with four classes (tank, healer, ranged and melee dps) that are basically the same.
theRaptor Jul 9th 2009 4:05PM
@ Clevins
Holy would be perfectly fine for tank healing ... if the current tanking mechanics weren't retarded. To compensate for the high healing amount that players have Blizzard just made bosses commonly hit tanks for half or more of their health. A Holy Priest can easily heal that but needs to land the heal at the right time or they are going to run into mana issues. A disc priest can take the edge off with bubbles and then penance away, a pally can just spam heal the entire time with their mana bar turned off.
I hate raid tank healing as Holy because it feels like either my heals are hitting for 90% over heal, or I am opening the tank up to die due to lucky hits.
Blizzard need to re-tune PVE tanking/healing so that healers don't feel like a 1/2 second lag spike will result in a dead tank.
Cetha Jul 9th 2009 4:44PM
@Clevins
uhh...Shaman can heal too btw, and heal really well. Everyone always forgets about us when they are talking about healers.
thebitterfig Jul 9th 2009 6:41PM
Clevins, i'd like to put forth another situation where the paladin lack of multi-target healing does hurt: Loken. Yep, good old 5-man Loken. Every little while, he does fairly high damage to everyone, and the paladin has to heal through it. Right now, the only tactic a paladin has is to throw Beacon on someone, and then try to spread the heals around. Sure, it'll work if everyone is well enough geared, but the situation really isn't fair. This isn't a raid where everyone has a specific and separate task.
Consider a disc priest in the same situation. They have both Prayer of Mending and Prayer of Healing, and can prevent a fair chunk of that damage with instant shields. Prayer of Healing is a sub-optimal spell for disc priests, but it fills a roll in rare situations. Right now, that is what pallys need. They need something which can help a raid or even a heroic group recover from a burst of AoE damage, even if it is cooldown limited or just so expensive it can't be relied on for more than small bursts of raid healing. Don't need Chain Lightning, and we don't need to be the new raid healers, but we do need some slightly better way to do at least some raid healing in a pinch.
Henry Jul 9th 2009 2:40PM
I'm REALLY happy to hear them saying they're going to make PvE Pallies DPS better.
Chris A Jul 9th 2009 2:41PM
On PTR, ret is doing massive damage from what I've seen. During aoe fights they have concecrate and divine storm while they are performing melée. I think besides the op bubble, pallies are becoming pretty equal. They are excellent tanks and healers especially.
JKWood Jul 9th 2009 4:05PM
I can bubble once every 2 minutes. One blocks everything for 12 seconds and halves my damage output, with a five minute cooldown. The other blocks physical damage for 10 seconds, but doesn't let me attack or "use physical abilities" (I don't use that bubble often enough to really grasp the full effect of that), also on a five minute cooldown. Oh, and lest I forget, there is a third option to reduce all damage by half for 12 seconds, on a 3 minute cooldown. Remember, kids, that's 12 seconds you can't hurt the pally at all every 5 minutes, 10 seconds smacking the pally won't do any good but spell damage will every 5 minutes, and 12 seconds in which you're doing half damage to the pally every 3 minutes.
Let's talk about the priest bubble, shall we? I'm a healadin, so my damage output isn't terribly high. It takes me about 10 seconds to wear through a priest's bubble. If the cooldown is right, they can immediately throw up another bubble! Once that's gone, they fear me across the field until they can throw up YET ANOTHER BUBBLE. But, you won't find me arguing that it's overpowered. It's a game mechanic. If you can't kill a paladin in the 2 minutes they don't have a bubble, get a buddy and try again!
alex Jul 9th 2009 5:58PM
@JKWood -
I play on a PvP server and I love PvP. I play with a variety of classes: warlock, shaman, mage, and a rogue. Did I mention that I love PvP?
Here's the thing: priests are squishy. I love ganking them in world PvP and BGs. Discipline priests provide problems, yes. But guess what... I don't fight them 1-on-1 with my healer shaman. That's dumb.
Here's the other thing: paladins are tough to kill. I mean... tough. If I run into one in world PvP, I have to hope he recently used his cooldowns because, frankly, it's kind of hard to kill someone 3 times over.
tl;dr Priests are squishy, paladins are not.
Volaro Jul 9th 2009 2:42PM
I'm liking the idea of totems and librams visible on Shammies and pallies, wonder what they mean by the quivers though. Maybe a mini-relic for hunters?
devilsei Jul 9th 2009 2:49PM
I'm pretty sure they already have quivers visible on Hunters or any other class that uses bows, its just a generic model on their back that pops out when attacking with the bow though.
Monsoon Jul 9th 2009 4:08PM
I'm thinking maybe they'll replace the ammo slot with a quiver/ammo pouch slot, so instead of equipping a bow and Arrows of Awesome +5, you'll have a bow and Quiver of Awesome +5. Then maybe Engineers will be making parts that Leatherworkers would need to make the Ammo Pouches of Awesome.
Task Jul 9th 2009 2:49PM
"Ret PvE DPS is too low right now; they're buffing it with the new Seal of Vengeance/Corruption. SoV is aimed towards boss fights, since it works best once the pally gets five stacks up; Seal of Command is for short PvP or PvE fights."
Since they haven't said what changes are being done to SoComm [I've read the notes and only seen the actual quote saying Ven would be buffed.], means more work to learn for me... Unless they can show me that SoComm can be viable again, I'll stick with SoVen.
And 2 different seals for PvE? I'd rather have 1 Seal that takes what's good from Ven and Comm and merge them into a whole new seal.
However, I know that:
1. It won't happen; Blizz would say it would take too long to test and create the mechanics and procs [which I agree with on that point.]
2. The seal itself would be too bursty and possibly have the same issue like SoBlood/Corrupt, in it being overpowered once Crusader Strike was hit.
3. It would probably the pally's version of a Warrior's charge, but in Seal form but close quarters.
I'm not QQ'ing as it were, I'm merely speaking as a player who enjoys being Ret, much like a lot of others.
devilsei Jul 9th 2009 2:59PM
I agree. SoB WAS the PvE seal until they got rid of our passive mana-gain ability and threw it into prot, and then got rid of it the seal altogether. It may not have the "added damage" that Ven is gaining, but giving us a way to gain mana back besides Divine Plea and JotW made up for that. If they are going to make us have two PvE seals, I'll say screw Command and go with Ven, since I don't know what the change to SoC is.
This entire Q&A thing has sucked, and as I expected, the Paladin one is "King of Suck". I've played only Ret, leveling and raiding, and I still feel like the devs have no clue how to handle us. And those statements at the beginning of this post only solidifies it, we were supposed to be mindless buffbots, and now that we can do damage and tank they don't know what to do with us. Being the premiere "Dual healer" class sounds nice and all, but in the end that amounts to "Heal Tank Plz" like Healadins always do in the first place, now that just means we got two tanks, instead of one.
Adrian Jul 10th 2009 4:05PM
SoC is going to hit for 36% Weapon Damage on every swing instead of only sometimes. That said, from what I have seen on EJ and my own unscientific testing on PTR, it still sucks (even for PVP).
Clbull Jul 9th 2009 2:51PM
In my opinion
Vanilla: Only good at healing. DPS very low and not fun to play.
TBC: Could tank and heal, needed more improvements on DPS but getting better.
Early Wrath: Could do all 3 raid roles, but Ret was overpowered in PvP both burst and survivability wise.