The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Patch 3.2 gets weird
Today The Care and Feeding of Warriors is confused. Matthew Rossi looks at this week's patch notes and sits there blinking a lot, not entirely sure what to make of themAnother week, another series of patch notes to leave me scratching my head and saying "Seriously? This is what we're doing, nerfing the crap out of agility for tanking? Did dodge rating steal somebody's lunch money as a kid? And Shield Block, I trusted you." It's strange to feel betrayed by a core tanking ability. I get why they're nerfing it, since they're increasing the amount of Block value on gear that has to double it's current values, I've already heard Prot warriors and paladins contemplating putting together BV sets for PvP and this change will keep warriors from using SB to get hideous crits in PvP with Shield Slam. At least I think that's the reasoning: I can't believe that anyone was actually worried about Prot Warriors' DPS while tanking in PvE content being too high after the change for 10 seconds out of every 40. Even if Protection Warriors put on every single piece of Block value gear imaginable, that 10 seconds of double damage with Shield Slam would still leave them at the absolute bottom of the tanking basement in terms of damage dealt while tanking.
The agility change is a near non-issue for almost all Warrior tanks: maybe you had Agility as your cape enchant or a few AGI gems, but for the most part Warriors don't stack Agility as tanks. However, since Dodge is at the moment probably the best stat a warrior can stack, the Dodge rating changes will sting quite a bit. (I am aware they're more like a hammer to the back of the head for Druids, but even so.)
Let us look at the specific changes (both Warrior and general) that stood out to me from the most recent patch notes. First we'll look at the changes from the general items section.
- Agility: The amount of agility required per percentage of Dodge has been increased by 15%. This change required recalibrating the amount of Dodge a player has with 0 Agility by a slight amount as well, so all players will see their Dodge percentage vary a small amount.
- Block Value: The amount of bonus Block value on all items has been doubled. This does not affect the base Block value on shields or Block value derived from Strength.
- On-Use Block Value Items: All items and set bonuses that trigger temporary increases to Block value have been modified. Instead of increasing their Block value amount by 100% like other items, they have all had their effect durations doubled. This applies to Glyph of Deflection, Gnomeregan Autoblocker, Coren's Lucky Coin, Lavanthor's Talisman, Libram of Obstruction, Tome of the Lightbringer, Libram of the Sacred Shield, the tier-8 paladin Shield of Righteousness bonus, the tier-5 paladin Holy Shield bonus, and the tier-5 warrior Shield Block bonus.
- Dodge Rating: The amount of Dodge rating required per percentage of Dodge has been increased by 15%. This is before diminishing returns. Combined with other changes, this makes Dodge rating and Parry rating equally potent before diminishing returns apply.
- Parry Rating: The amount of Parry rating required per percentage of Parry has been reduced by 8%. This is before diminishing returns. Combined with other changes, this makes Dodge rating and Parry rating equally potent before diminishing returns apply. Parry still diminishes more quickly than Dodge.
Since both Dodges and Parries effectively negate a melee attack (you take no damage on a successful Parry or Dodge) while Blocks only reduce an incoming attack's damage by the Block value of the tank in question (this can reduce an attack to zero, making high Block rating/Block value sets shockingly good against trash pulls and shockingly bad against mobs that hit for more than, say, 4 to 5k damage with an attack) maybe reducing both Dodge and Parry in this way is the only way to equalize them with Block. I guess nerfing every other tanking stat is one way to make Block more comparatively attractive.
Now let's look at the specific changes to warriors.
Warriors
- Bloodrage: This ability now generates 20 rage initially, and 10 rage over the next 10 seconds. The health cost is unchanged.
- Execute: This ability now never costs more than a total of 30 rage. The tooltip for Sudden Death has been revised to remove reference to that maximum, since the ability now behaves that way even when untalented.
- Shield Block: Shield Slam no longer benefits from the increased block value granted by this ability. However, while Shield Block is active, Shield Slam generates 100% additional threat
- Fury
- Armored to the Teeth: This talent now provides 1/2/3 attack power per 108 armor, up from per 180 armor.
- Bloodsurge: Notification that Slam has become instant now appears in floating combat text.
- Protection
- Devastate: Weapon damage increased to 60% and bonus per Sunder Armor on the target increased by 20%.
- Shield Specialization: Now provides 5 rage on a block, dodge or parry instead of 2 rage on a block.
The Shield Block change irritates me. Just leave the damage on it! It's not going to make Prot Warriors the kings of DPS among the tanks! Adding a static threat modifier to compensate for the damage loss just irks me. Yes, you read right, it irks me! It's necessary to compensate warrior tanks for the threat they'll be losing, but there's no good reason outside of some theoretical case of stacking every possible block value item and going to Wintergrasp with it where the damage from SB/Shield Slam was going to be that great anyway. So what if a prot warrior occasionally shield slams for 10k (I'm deliberately overstating this) in a battleground, when the rest of the time he's plinking along for 2 to 3k? I just find the idea of lowering prot warrior DPS while tanking, or at all really to be absurd. Is it just against the rules of the game for warriors to hurt things now?
The Devastate and Shield Spec changes are both good. More damage, more rage, good for tanking. Anything that allows a prot warrior tank to put out more damage while tanking I can get behind.
I hopped on test and did a heroic Nexus run last night to test the Bloodsurge change and it was spotty: despite having combat text turned on, I didn't get many Bloodsurge notifications at all. It didn't actually hurt my DPS that much, but I'd like to see this change go live working properly since at present I have to use power auras to inform me of a bloodsurge proc. Armored to the Teeth we already knew about, and it's a solid 200 or so AP for me, but I'm in all plate at this point anyway.
All in all, the changes go from confusing to maddening to somewhat positive to somewhat negative, it's a roller coaster but not one of those really fancy ones at the good theme parks, more of an older one built really close to a flume where you get splashed a lot. Honestly, I still feel hurt by what Shield Block has done, and that's ridiculous, I know Shield Block isn't a sapient being that can actually betray me and yet how could you do this to me, Shield Block? Next week, I get some tissues and eat some brownie ice cream while holding a picture of the Shield Block icon during a montage of all the times I pushed the Shield Block button set to the music of Zamfir, master of the pan flute. (Yes, okay, the Shield Block change is not that big a deal, just go with it.)
Filed under: Warrior, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, News items, Instances, Raiding, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
humidfreak Jul 9th 2009 7:15PM
the fact is the bloke with the nerf bat must have been cheated on by a war because bliz are going out of their way to make war totally useless
Manatank Jul 9th 2009 8:21PM
Seems to me that all of these nerfs to tanking in general are actually buffs to warriors and paladins. DKs should see a decrease in avoidance along with warriors and pallies, but Druids... Druids are getting hit the hardest. Both agility and dodge rating are getting nerfed pretty hard, and they don't have a buff to parry to help balance it out at all.
So, avoidance is lower for all tanks, and block is more useful.
Tanks nerfed: All
Tanks Buffed: Warriors and Paladins
How again can you come to the conclusion that someone hates warriors?
Krick Jul 9th 2009 9:53PM
The changes to agility and dodge are aimed squarely at nerfing rogue tanks. They just don't want to see a rogue tanking Naxx any time soon like we had back in BC...
http://www.wow.com/2008/05/20/the-tanking-rogue-strikes-again-5-mans-gruul/
...
Krick
http://www.tankadin.com/forum/
Dyrusa Jul 10th 2009 1:09AM
Actually, adding Diminishing Returns to avoidance stats already took care of the rogue tank problem, as with them you would effectively need somewhere around 500% dodge pre-DR to hit the 100% mark.
This is obviously a change not only to slightly nerf the avoidance of tanks (who are reaching high levels only halfway through the expansion), but to bring parry in line with dodge. Every well-versed tank knows that currently, you gem for dodge rating over parry rating, for the simple fact that you get more avoidance per point form dodge than parry. And a well itemized avoidance piece would have dodge rating over parry. This patch changes that.
Tahome Jul 10th 2009 1:10AM
Actually, adding Diminishing Returns to avoidance stats already took care of the rogue tank problem, as with them you would effectively need somewhere around 500% dodge pre-DR to hit the 100% mark.
This is obviously a change not only to slightly nerf the avoidance of tanks (who are reaching high levels only halfway through the expansion), but to bring parry in line with dodge. Every well-versed tank knows that currently, you gem for dodge rating over parry rating, for the simple fact that you get more avoidance per point form dodge than parry. And a well itemized avoidance piece would have dodge rating over parry. This patch changes that.
Rocky Jul 9th 2009 7:21PM
The execute change is a PVE buff but a PVP nerf.
Your DPS will actually increase during the sub 20% range on bosses as you wont have to worry about spending 100 rage on a non crit execute, only to be followed by a glancing blow which will gimp your rage gen for a few seconds after. This way, you can use the 30(40 if glyphed) rage for an execute, and continue your rotation. It'll make it a great replacement for HS/Slam usage in the rotation during the execute phase.
The PVP nerf is going along with Blizz trying to reduce burst I feel. Even though it is rather odd that they'd nerf execute like that when it still pails in comparison to a pally's hammer or the locks version of execute.
What DOES worry me, is how the new changes in arena play with overall damage done being reduced via resil will affect warriors since the amount of rage generated is directly based on the damage we do. With less damage being done, that will lead to less rage being generated which will ultimately lead to us doing less damage. And now with mages and priests getting a mortal strike like ability, I fear our representation will only go further down while PMR will be the end all 3s team still.
Xerilian Jul 9th 2009 7:24PM
Nerfed warriors?? How about the druids?! We can't block or parry, so all we have is dodge. And now we're going to need even more agility and dodge rating just to have the same we have now? I have no idea why they did this change, but this totally sucks for druid tanks.
thebvp Jul 9th 2009 7:28PM
I do believe he said: "(I am aware they're more like a hammer to the back of the head for Druids, but even so.)"
so I'm pretty sure this addresses your concern. Yes, it sucks for druids, but this isn't a blog about druids. It's a blog about warriors.
Manatank Jul 9th 2009 8:38PM
"Yes, it sucks for druids, but this isn't a blog about druids. It's a blog about warriors."
Yeah, but it sucks for all tanks, so what is your point? It hurts Warriors and Paladins the least of all the tanks (because they can still block), so in some ways it is a relative tanking buff for Warriors. I mean that in the sense that when people are choosing which tank to bring the relative value of Warriors vs DKs and Druids just went up. It isn't like people are going to stop bringing tanks now that they take more damage due to lower avoidance.
Warriors, Paladins, and Death Knights are all getting a buff to parry rating that will help offset some of their avoidance loss. Druids can't parry so they lose out the most of any tank. Druids also get a great deal of their dodge from agility which is also getting nerfed. In other words this change makes their relative value vs the other tanks go down.
A1CYancy Jul 9th 2009 10:59PM
I for one LIKE the change to dodge. let's remove ourselves from the world of numbers for one moment. Instead, let's step into our long forgotten game lore. I'm a Prot warrior. I'm a GIANT TIN CAN with a sword. You shouldn't be dodging ANYTHING. Warriors should be parry based anyways. Forum trolling Druids, if you want shield block and parry, drop your DPS and handed out health and roll a warrior. While you are at it, you lose the potential to heal, cast, rez, etc. But you like that part of being a druid or else you WOULD be a tin can prot warrior. I'm not whining about Int doing absolutely nothing for me. Why, when you have neither sword (parry) or shield (block), would it be the slightest necessary for druids to have either block or parry? Druids dodge what damage they can and soak up the rest. It sucks about dodge and I think druids should be given a class specific buff on it, being a large portion of a bear tank mechanic.
I like the increased threat idea. I've given up hope of ever being as good of an AOE tank as a pally or a DPS tank like ... everyone else. Maybe bliz has also. With basically another taunt on our bars we should be the undeniable single target threat tank kings/ queens. I'd much rather be a niche tank then a 2nd rate tank all together. With no significant DPS buffs or greater AOE potential, I saw warriors going towards the latter.
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing Protadins knocked down a peg. >:D
Grubba Jul 10th 2009 4:36AM
"Yeah, but it sucks for all tanks, so what is your point?"
The point is that Xerilian's post was a whine about how druids get hit harder by this change than warriors as if Rossi hadn't already said that very thing in his article. He knows it hits druids harder and acknowledged it.
Maulrush Jul 9th 2009 8:05PM
14k shield slams on PTR in the premade gear.
http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=95935
Check out the 24k on page 8 of the thread.
Heilig Jul 9th 2009 9:12PM
This. This this this this this. Double prot cleave teams can kill you before you can react, and can survive an insanely long time until their cooldowns synchronize again and they can get the next person. Combine that with the stuns, offensive dispels, interrupts, and fears, and prot warriors that can shield slam for 10K plus are massively OP in arena.
Qpally Jul 10th 2009 12:00AM
Sorry guys, my bad.
I've been harrassing people in BGs all week as Prot....ON LIVE.
Yes, tone down Prot burst dmg in 3.2(LOL, who thought that would ever be needed?)
No, do not nerf Prot dmg overall. A lot of these numbers were achieved by either stacking BV tank gear, which is crap in PvP with the new Resil buff, or in a Premade full-PvP set that is incredibly hard to achieve as a Prot warrior in the first place. (You want WHAT rating for a f'n shield?!)
Letting Prot wars and pallys(not heal-prot) have a real role in PvP is a very very good idea, and will only broaden the game and strategy in BGs and Arena.
Heilig Jul 10th 2009 2:53AM
Sorry, man, you're just wrong. i've been playing arenas on the ptr and double prot + healer teams are disgusting even with the resil changes. 12-15K shield slams are common. Paladins are not as bad because we don't have a shield block button, but double warrior teams are walking in and one shotting any class if they time things right. Shield Block was the main reason since it was turning 8K shield slams into 12k. two 8K SS crits are survivable. Two 12K ones are not.
Ensane Jul 9th 2009 7:32PM
Well without of damage nerf, shield slam would probably make warriors really tough in arenas. The only classes that can do substantial damage to prot warriors are casters and even then a warriors hp is so high (+ they have spell reflect and a interrupt) that they would be nearly impossible to take down in a healer + prot warrior comp. Just think, a prot pally healer + a prot warrior comp would be nearly impossible to beat (or at least take a very long time). So yeah, while warriors would'nt be the kings of dps with the change, they would be too much dmg for the amount of survivability and interrupts they have. Correct me if there is anything i am missing or overlooked.
AlmtyBob Jul 9th 2009 8:02PM
Meh. The doubling of Shield Block value on ITEMS wouldn't make a Prot Warrior some unstoppable force in Arenas. Like Matt said the only real danger comes from stacking BV at the expense of other stats and praying for some lucky crits. Keep in mind base shield BV and strength derived BV remain unchanged so SS damage wouldn't double by any stretch. The change definitely wouldn't bring Prot Warriors from mostly unrepresented to OP.
As someone who's done a fair amount of Arenas as Prot with a resto druid and I can tell you winning and losing is pretty random. If both opponents can snare/root there's not much hope. I'm sure the change is to prevent burst due to Sword and Board procs. 8-10k burst isn't a game change, however it's somewhat common to pull of a Charge/SB/Crit SS/Revenge/Crit SS combo for around 14k - 18k damage in the span of 2 GCDs. But after that we're back to way subpar DPS with decent shutdown abilities for another minute.
Gessilea Jul 9th 2009 7:32PM
"Next week, I get some tissues and eat some brownie ice cream while holding a picture of the Shield Block icon during a montage of all the times I pushed the Shield Block button set to the music of Zamfir, master of the pan flute."
*Sniff* That was beautiful man. Beautiful.
jjcoola998 Jul 10th 2009 10:57AM
Epic post!
BigLove Jul 9th 2009 7:33PM
What is this diminishing returns on dodge/parry?