Officers' Quarters: Best in slot
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.The phrase "best in slot" has taken on an almost untouchable mythos. It's not hard to see why. The experts spend a large amount of time crunching numbers and evaluating items for every spec of each class. They write software just for the purpose of telling you what items are better. When those people say that an item is the best in slot, that's the one. That is the item for the slot, and no better item exists. Anything else is just a placeholder until you get the best.
Of course, a lot depends on what other gear you are wearing. Even so, as raiders, those best-in-slot pieces are highly desirable. But what if our best in slot isn't our main armor type?
Hi Scott,
Recently my guild has gotten into what's turning out to be a hot debate.
It all started when a Paladin and Shaman both rolled on a mail belt; now this item was a best in slot piece for the Paladin but the officer automatically dismissed the Paladin's roll because "Paladin's normally wear plate and Shaman normally wear mail" and this was the only reason that the Shaman was awarded the piece over the Paladin. The pally did state before it was awarded that it was a BiS piece for him, but that fell on deaf ears.
The majority of people in the guild feel the same way I do; that a best in slot item is a best in slot item regardless of its armor class/type; however, a small group which includes officers believes and I quote exactly "I just think a lot more then throwing a "zomg BiS" out there when an item drops is needed before armor class is taken down as consideration for who gets what loot."
This has not been settled yet, but I would think if the opinion of the minority/officers won then why would any class who uses "lesser armor types" want to join a guild that would not give them their Best in Slot item should it drop based on armor type?
How do other people feel about this issue? Is best in slot > armor type or does armor type outweigh best in slot?
Sincerely,
BiS Supporter
Players have asked me about this issue many times since Wrath launched. The homogenization of gear has created more such situations than in the past, and loot drama follows. So I'm finally dedicating a column to it, mostly so I can link it to people who ask me about it again in the future.
If I'm coming across snarky, it's because I really don't see two sides to this issue. To me, it's cut and dry: Best in slot does not trump armor type. I agree 100% with Supporter's officers. However, I am also curious if other guilds see this issue differently, and how they handle it, if so.
For this column, I'm assuming your guild uses a rolling system like Supporter's, with the officers deciding who is eligible to roll on a given piece. It's a common system, but it's also the most prone to this type of loot drama.
Here are the reasons why, in my opinion, you can't allow best in slot to trump armor type.
1. Classes limited by armor type would be at a severe disadvantage. They have a smaller pool of items to choose from. In the case of Resto shamans, they can theoretically wear leather and cloth, but those armor types aren't well itemized for their spec. Most of these items have spirit, which is virtually useless to a Resto shaman. So the pool of items for a Resto shaman is limited to spell power mail. All of a Resto shaman's best-in-slot pieces are most likely from that pool.
Holy paladins have a wider pool, since both spell power plate and spell power mail are itemized similarly. Some BIS items will be from each pool, and paladins can wear either for each slot. By giving paladins and shamans equal priority on a mail piece, your shaman might have to wait a long time before upgrading a slot that's also BIS for a paladin. If you don't give equal priority, the paladin might have to settle for a different plate upgrade, but odds are he or she will still get an upgrade from that raiding tier, even if it's not the absolute BIS. That brings me to my next point.
2. Higher armor drops would go to waste. Let's assume that the Holy paladin were allowed to roll on this BIS belt and he won it. It's BIS, so clearly that benefits the raid. However, the shaman didn't get an upgrade. Now suppose on the next boss, a plate spell power belt drops. Assuming no other Holy pallies are present (which is all too common these days), that belt is in the fast lane to Shardsville.
On the other hand, if the paladin is denied the mail belt, then the shaman gets an upgrade (that is probably BIS for the spec), and the paladin gets an upgrade from the plate belt. It might not be optimal for the paladin, but it's still better, and you've improved the raid twice instead of once. The next time the mail belt drops, if no shamans need it, it can go to the paladin and improve the raid again.
You'll always have wasted loot no matter what. Some items are just plain garbage. But you can reduce the waste, and this is one way to do it.
3. For some classes and specs, the BIS list changes frequently. I'm not even referring to adding new tiers of loot, although obviously that also affects the BIS set for your spec. I'm just talking game mechanics and class changes. For example, Patch 3.2 will be the third major patch in a row that changes item evaluations for paladins of one spec or another. And in between those major patches have been other changes that affect item weights, like the infamous Divine Storm hotfix nerf.
What is BIS today may not be BIS tomorrow. There's nothing any of us can do about that. And because of that fact, as officers, it doesn't make sense to let someone play the BIS card for special privileges.
4. Finally, the loot system would put a massive burden on the officers to know which items are BIS for every slot, for every spec in the game. Sure, we could just take everyone's word for it, but that can quickly lead down a dangerous path. Supporter's officers recognized this and acknowledged it in their response. It's just too easy for someone to make that claim for every piece they want. And unless someone else in the raid plays that spec and knows the itemization weights equally well, no one could refute the assertion. The burden would fall on the officers to know whether that person is right.
If you haven't been able to tell already, I play a paladin. Holy is not my main spec, but we've been short on healers all summer, so I've done more healing than I'd like. Personally, I'd never roll on spell power mail over a Resto shaman. And I'd never roll on DPS leather over a rogue or a druid. If I really want a nonplate piece, I can wait my turn. It's better for the raid, it's better for the officers who deal with loot, and it's better for my fellow players who need those items and can't equip every armor type like I can.
Ultimately, Blizzard could do us all a favor and make sure every spec's BIS pieces have the right armor type. I honestly don't think it would be that difficult to do so. Most specs are already there. DPS plate seems to be the most problematic area, along with Balance leather and Elemental mail. But that's only a few specs out of 27 that have a significant armor type problem. Ulduar spell power plate will be much more desirable after 3.2.
If Blizzard could get their itemization in line with armor type across the board, it would be helpful to players, guilds, and their officers, making loot decisions easier and reducing drama. I hope they're able to do so at some point. Until then, we all have to deal with the loot as it's been designed.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership), Guilds






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 11)
Asator Jul 13th 2009 1:13PM
You should seriously take a look at holy paladin gear itemization in Ulduar.
Now imagine playing a holy paladin, and being denied to roll on mail, just because it doesnt state the tag "plate". I would poke my eyes out and gquit,reroll,transfer pick your choice.
Blizzard is making our life hard with all the "new and exciting" changes they are bringing to the class. If we dont expect support from our co-players, I dont know where we can turn to.
Matthew Rossi Jul 13th 2009 1:19PM
As a resto shaman, I say take a look at shaman itemization in Ulduar. Then explain to me why the class that can at least equip some of that delicious MP5 gear that I'd stab someone for if only it were mail should take the mail I can equip.
I know the plate isn't perfectly, or even close to perfectly itemized for you. I know (lord do I know) how much you like the mail pieces with crit and haste and spell power and no MP5 that drop. Those are dual-purposed shaman pieces, they're already hotly contended between elemental and resto shamans, we simply can't afford adding holy paladins to the mix when they can equip all that healing plate we can't.
You can have the mail after we're done. We can't WEAR that plate, you can in the mean time, and then you'll get the mail. Otherwise, as Scott stated, you'll take the mail and the plate and we may well end up with nothing due to the way loot drops.
Terethall Jul 13th 2009 1:20PM
Dude, you're acting like it's the end of the world. We're not talking about a situation where the gear is sharded because it's mail and you wear plate. It's a situation where the gear is awesome for two classes, but it's not fair for one of the classes to roll on it while another still needs it.
Jon Do Jul 13th 2009 1:21PM
And you should also consider the other side - I see this all too often.
For example, a pally wins a BIS mail over a shaman. The next boss drops plate that the pally can use as well - the shammy *can't* use it, and the pally rolls unopposed for his second epic of the night.
Not good.
So it comes down to an uncomfortable choice for the raid / guild leader - who do you want to gquit, the pally or the shammy?
Though I do lay the blame ultimately at Blizzard's lazy feet - armor class is a bad design left over from the old tabletop D&D days.
Asator Jul 13th 2009 1:37PM
Guys you're all missing a point.
Just because a holy paladin can use plate doesnt mean he MUST.
Imagine how it would feel if your class had all its drops in Ulduar be a tier lower. FE all your gear in Uld 25 would be ilvl 213 when everyone else's is ilvl226.
That's essentially what's happening for holy paladins. In their current implementation of game mechanics mp5 is as useful for us as potatoes. Now there are SOME mail drops that have optimal stats for us. Why would you deny us the right to roll on it. Automatically excluding us from it is a sign of not knowing how the game works. I WILL use my precious DKP to pay for it. And if the next boss drops plate spell, I dont care, my naxx gear is better than that. It's an upgrade only for very badly geared paladins.
Get your facts straight guys before you start flaming people. I dont WANT to be obliged to take MAIL. I HAVE to though
Luckedout Jul 13th 2009 1:36PM
Wow. Quite the selfish player aren't we? Don't get the item we want so we gquit or transfer?
The officers have to look at this as what's best for the guild, not what's best for you. To do otherwise would neglect their responsibility as officers of the guild. I agree that BiS items are so varied and can change so quickly that it's impossible to keep up on them. I agree with the officer's decisions and agree with Scott's argument.
You think you'd be mad as a paladin, imagine how that shammy feels if he loses the roll? Then an ug piece of plate drops that the pali won't touch because he just go his bis and it's sharded?
Armor itemization is a problem with Blizzard, but so are the selfish players who don't give a damn about the guild unless their getting the phat lootz they want.
Asator Jul 13th 2009 1:45PM
@Luckedout: Forgive me if I was abrupt. In the current state of how things work, I'm not the happiest player on earth. I would of course not gquit. I would not be happy either.
I dont expect my officer to know what my BiS is. I dont care about BiS. I care about an item that can improve over what I have. You're talking about me not caring about the guild. On the contrary I do care about the guild. I do care about my ability to keep my tank alive. Denying me that ability on the sole basis of the item not being plate is narrow minded. I won't roll, I will pay for it. I'm going to pay for it with hard earned DKP. Dont turn against me for having to do so. It's not my fault. I see it the same way as you. I dont like having the shamans as candidates for a piece. I would really prefer to be able to roll solely on plate spell. After all I'm the only who can use it right ?
Marita Jul 13th 2009 1:57PM
If you as a pally are the one who's going to get the best upgrade by looting a mail, then you should roll for it
no one is denying you the option.
Because if you are the one who's going to get the best upgrade, it's your right.
The point is: when there are two players who can get an upgrade with the item, who's going to win it? (remember, both get an upgrade) the one who is a mail user, or the plate user?
in this situation the officers must consider what they think is best for the guild, not the players, because here both of them need the item.
It's about the guild's priorities
the rule of "plate for plate-users, mail for mail-users" is a general rule, that should be flexible
Asator Jul 13th 2009 2:09PM
Deciding who will get a loot that drops is being done with the various loot systems.
If you're in a guild that officers decide who should get what, it can be really good, where everyone is rewarded for his participation, or really bad , buddies get the loot.
You're essentially questioning if the loot system is correct or not.
My guild is using DKP. I get awarded DKP for boss kills. We only raid Ulduar so we dont inflate our points with Naxx kills. Typically only the first raid night awards DKP. The other nights is just wiping on progression. I never miss a run, and I rarely take any loot because I'd rather stick to something that has better itemization and is a tier lower that take something that is direct downgrade cause I have to.
Now imagine if the few pieces that drop and I'm interested in, I'm not allow to bid for.
I will pay a huge price for it, probably in weeks' worth of DKP. It IS an upgrade for me and a pretty good one. If you deny me that upgrade, I will keep raiding with you. But you will replace me because I'm not cutting it as a class anymore.
Hammeroj Jul 13th 2009 2:15PM
Look who's crying! A paladin who can't literally steal gear from elemental (and sometimes resto) shamans. Oh boy do I love reading posts like this. When's the last time you went up to an elemental shammy and ask how easy it is to get some non-set mail pieces? Never. You don't know and therefore don't give a f**k about how rarely those items drop and how poorly the mail caster items are itemised, and about the people who have to raid for months to get two or three. I'll say from my personal experience, I have, to this day, having farmed Ulduar for over a month, and Naxx for 5 months before that, never even seen an elemental belt dropping. For half a year. Take this into your calculations. Take also into your calculations the fact that plate healing gear drops at least 5 times more than mail that would suit you. Stop even posting crap like this since clearly you haven't even read what Scott wrote above and acting like it's the end of the world if you do 100 less HPS.
Asator Jul 13th 2009 2:21PM
Well it's not really the end of the world either if you do 50 dps less.
Bypassing your profanities I will have to say that running Ulduar for 4 resets and not getting a mail belt to your liking doesn't really give you the right to complain about the non drops. Simply you had bad luck at Razorscale and he didn't drop your blue belt. I've not seen him drop the mace the last 11 resets but I'm not complaining too much.
You on the other hand have something to look forward to. I rarely do.
dave mclean Jul 13th 2009 3:48PM
You should take into account that the article is concerning a situation in which RNG dictates who gets the drop. This essentially places the pally and the shaman on equal footing for the mail belt in question. However, the pally will have more opportunities to upgrade, even if it's not BiS. The shaman, however, can only upgrade with other mail pieces.
In a DKP system such as the one you're talking about, you may have earned the right to outbid the shaman on the belt because you've simply earned more points than the shaman. You're not on equal footing in this situation, so the shaman would have less reason to complain.
Personally, I'd pass and let the shaman spend his DKP (assuming you're using a silent bid system) and wait for a plate drop, even though it may not be BiS. As others have pointed out, it will probably be better for the guild.
Yakuko Jul 13th 2009 3:48PM
I have a holy paladin. I would never roll against a mail wearer if it was an upgrade for their current spec. If for whatever reason I felt a piece was BiS for me but not for them, I'd talk to the shaman and loot masters in question beforehand, providing gear outputs from Rawr, links from EJ, etc. I rather see the guild benefit as a whole. Yes, like anyone else I enjoy getting new gear, but it's only gear and it'll drop again.
Continuum6 Jul 14th 2009 4:03AM
your blankie
Continuum6 Jul 14th 2009 4:05AM
(@ Asator)
trig Jul 13th 2009 1:13PM
before reading this article i would have agreed with the sender, but now that ive heard your argument i certainly see your point.
good read.
keep up the good work!
nbcaffeine Jul 13th 2009 1:53PM
As a Resto Druid who ocationally wears cloth, I was in the same place. I think I agree more with the armor type supporters after reading this. I would normally pass on any cloth upgrades unless no clothie wanted it. Then I'd throw my hat in the ring.
BiS for you is not the same as best for the raid, I suppose
Sqrly Jul 13th 2009 1:55PM
I can see all sides of this as valid. I currently am the "Lootmaster" in my guild. I can look at any gear drop and determine what class/spec it is basically intended for. If I have two different classes wanting a particual drop even though it's not the top armor for one class, I evalute each persons claim to that piece as well as considering the player, things like attendance, motivation to improve, attitude in a raid. If your wearing the gold bag, hopefully your an officer in your guild. You should know what each class can and can't do as well as what stats they depend on. Use your brain - DKP is for lazy people.
Treason Jul 13th 2009 2:21PM
>As a Resto Druid who ocationally wears cloth, I was in the same place.
I think you should have equal priority there.
If you count the number of upgrades you can roll on:
Caster Leather, Cloth, Daggers, Maces, Idols
Vs the number of items they can roll on
Swords, Wands, Cloth, Daggers, Maces, Idols
You'll see you almost always have the exact same number of items you can roll on, and the ones that you specifically can roll on are a much lower drop rate.
Farstrider Jul 13th 2009 2:33PM
Scott,
I'm not going to lie. This may have been brought up but I was too lazy to read all responses.
If you go into the Skills pane and scroll down you'll see under the Armor Proficiencies section that a paladin has the ability to utilize Cloth, Leather, Mail, Plate Armor and a Shield.
I'm curious why you think a Paladin should not use a mail item if the game was designed for the class to be able to utilize the item.
This has been the case since original WoW. The most famous example would probably be these gloves: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=14551
Granted the stats have been changed but as you can see from the comments they were still powerful leveling to 70 even after the change.
People tend to think that a certain piece of armor should be disqualified for a class since it is not the "accepted" type for that class. I do not agree with that.