Warrior Q&A Analysis
Well, the warrior Q&A is finally here. if you play a warrior and you were hoping that this would be the beam of sunshine that would fix your issues with the class, I'm sorry to tell you that it probably won't be. This isn't a huge surprise... so far the entire Q&A series has been fairly conservative and this one's no different... but let's go over it anyway.First off, of course, we have the intro to the class, which contains this interesting sentence: The warrior class has been a very tricky one to balance, largely due to the way rage converts into damage (which converts into rage, which converts into damage...), and we haven't completely nailed that design just yet.
I think it's fair to say that anyone who remembers Rage Normalization trembles just a little bit when they see sentences like that. It's so very easy to render warriors absolutely impotent by tinkering with our rage generation, so I'm going to say right now that I desperately hope they test whatever changes they make very, very thoroughly.
The first really significant part of the Q&A discusses the Arms and Fury trees. It's significant enough that I'm going to reproduce it in its entirety here.
- One of the things we want to do in the future is take a hard look at the Arms and Fury trees. There are several talents which just haven't weathered the course of time well and pale in comparison to some of the newer Wrath of the Lich King talents. We're happiest with the Protection tree -- we made a conscious effort to pare down that tree and remove a lot of mandatory talents in order to give the warrior more flexibility to take some more fun or utility-oriented talents. We need to make the same pass on the dps side of things. The reason we haven't done so yet is that warrior dps is in a pretty good place and we don't want to have to nerf the class across the board just to make some talents a little sexier. We will eventually do this though. We also need to make some decisions about the difference between Arms and Fury. Traditionally, Arms was the PvP tree and Fury was the PvE tree. We understand some players prefer that model, but we don't like the way it cuts off such a big chunk of the class from players who might not have much interest in the PvP or PvE parts of the game. However, we would like to reinforce a little more the kits of Arms and Fury. Everyone (I hope) gets the difference between Frost and Fire mages. Arms is supposed to be about weapons and martial training and feel "soldierly." Fury is supposed to be about screaming barbarians in woad. You get a sense of that, but it could be stronger. With the death knight, we allowed all three trees to more or less be able to tank. There is a desire among some players and designers to see Arms tank with a two-hander while Prot tanks with a shield. We're still not sure that's the direction we'll go -- it's a ton of re-design and will never work for say the druid or paladin classes.
Frankly, the Protection tree, while good, is not as good as the developers seem to think it is. Most tanks don't really feel free to go take fun or utility oriented talents so much as they feel constrained to run up to Deep Wounds in an attempt to try and get some AoE threat from bleeds. That being said, the idea of really revamping Arms and Fury to finally capture the essence of the disciplined soldier and screaming berserker in each tree would make me gasp with shock, joy and love if it were handled properly. Frankly, as a Fury Warrior I don't really feel all that different from an Arms Warrior right now. I hit Whirlwind, he uses Bladestorm and Sweeping Strikes. He uses Mortal Strike, Overpower and Execute, I use Bloodthirst and Bloodsurge proc'ed Slams. I use 2 2h weapons, he uses 1 2h. We both wear the same plate. If they can actually make Fury feel like a blood-mad bear sark wearing lunatic and Arms gains the disciplined feel of a character from the Black Company series, then I'd be happy. And the idea of letting Arms be a viable style of tanking with a 2h weapon? Bliss! Sweet, unadulterate bliss!
I admit to only having a few ideas on how to make this work, but if all three warrior trees had tanking viability I'd be purely ecstatic, and even if we just made Arms like the Druid Feral tree with tanking and DPS talents that required you to choose which you would use I'd be all for it.
Stances, rage and situational abilities are highlighted as the most distinctive aspects of the warrior class next. A coming overhaul is mentioned to rage again (whimper) and then the role of stances is discussed. Stances are intended to be a major battlefield decision for warriors, though we realize it doesn't always pan out this way. You have access to different abilities in different stances, but pay a rage cost as well as sacrificing the potential to use other abilities. I have to be honest here, after playing my DK to 80 and tanking in 5 mans and raids with him, this idea is simply not very compelling to me. Different abilities in different stances and losing the ability to use some abilities in some stances will probably always be with us, I understand that, but that doesn't make it fun or exciting.
The Q&A goes on to say that, if anything, abilities like Bloodsurge and Taste for Blood aren't going away, but will probably be emphasized. I think if anything, abilities like this need to be more prominent. You should be less effective at your job if you ignore them, and ideally you'd also be less effective if you just macro'd them in.
I can say that I don't like feeling like I have to have my Slam button macro'd so that it only fires when Bloodsurge procs, but I also don't like that Bloodsurge isn't more obvious: if you're going to make situational abilities more prominent they need to be nearly unmissable, so that the reason you end up not taking full advantage of them isn't because you didn't hear the swoosh-bang over all the other spells and effects going on in a raid. It's more than just putting the proc into combat text (which didn't even seem to be happening last time I tested it on the PTR) - if I'm expected to use these abilities or be less effective, fair is fair, make it so the decision to use them isn't taken out of my hands. I do like situational abilities, though, I'd even go so far as to say I'd like to see another in the Fury rotation somewhere.
The stance discussion goes as I would have expected it: they like stances, they want you to have to switch stances to use certain abilities, they want the decision to switch stances to use certain abilities to be part of the gameplay. They do acknowledge that it's harder to make those kinds of decisions in raid environments and while they maintain that they want the choice to switch stances to be a decision with costs as well as benefits, they do admit that if the cost is too high it's not a choice anymore. I'm hopeful this means they'll at least ameliorate the penalty for switching stances somewhat in the future.
The part of the Q&A about warrior DPS glosses over the real issue with warrior DPS in Ulduar, namely that warrior DPS is designed around being stationary to generate rage as much as possible and the Ulduar fights are almost exclusively mobile with the exception of fights like Kologarn, Thorim phase 2 and XT - 002 hard mode. (Maybe Yogg brain phases, but those are still pretty short.) Also remember that some fights just favor one class or spec over another. We're totally cool with that, so long as it isn't always the same exact class or spec that gets to shine. It would be nice if you weren't fine with it if it was always the same exact class or spec that doesn't get to shine. It's almost a blessing to DPS warriors that they take so much splash damage in Ulduar, because if not for that, their DPS would truly be atrocious.
Filed under: Warrior, Buffs, Talents, Classes, Raiding, Instances, PvP, News items, Analysis / Opinion, Forums






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
doo Jul 16th 2009 5:18PM
warrior dps, working as intended!!!!
good times!
Joetheserviceman Jul 16th 2009 5:23PM
I don't know if this is a problem for lv 80 warrior tanks, but at 76 I find myself needing to Charge on every pull to jumpstart my rage pool, which often pulls more mobs than I want - or gets the DPS close enough to pull adds that I then have to run around to aggro. I've tried using my gun to pull mobs, and it is much more precise, but then I have to blow Bloodrage (which, often enough, is on cooldown because I needed Commanding beforehand) to get any DPS the first few seconds of the battle.
In other instances (I'm dual-specced) I'll see a DK Death Gripping something and pulling exactly what they want, and worse, doing more damage than I am. Am I doing something wrong, or are warriors really bad at pulling in Wrath?
Remen Jul 16th 2009 5:45PM
This is a fairly common issue. I find if I need rage but can't charge I'll use blood rage to get rage off the start and work with that then toss the Commanding Shout up 15 - 20 sec in after I have some aggro. Unless someone has a better suggestion let me know, but this works for me. Also once you hit 80 you get heroic throw and that helps with precision and rage.
polidoro Jul 16th 2009 5:57PM
Prot warrs can heroic throw, backpedal a bit then charge. You get more threat, you usually silence them (gag order), and you can position them better.
You just need to make sure your DPS doesn't hit till after you charge.
BioHazard Jul 16th 2009 5:59PM
Heroic Throw works pretty well for me, you can even talent it to silence casters, forcing them to run at you with the rest of the group. Then when they get closer, charge them before they hit the minimum range and you're good.
jbodar Jul 16th 2009 7:34PM
Even if you don't have Heroic Throw, you can just use Shoot/Throw with Warbringer Charge as described above.
Matthew Jul 16th 2009 7:35PM
Why don't you just use Faerie Fire, and then swipe.
Oh I'm sorry, wrong post. Don't druid talents sound lamer than your warrior ones?
:-)
qoa Jul 17th 2009 12:41AM
Simply put, tell the dps to let you get into position before they blow loads on meters. Heroic Throw the caster, charge the group, then either walk the melee to the caster who should be targeting you from the HT or Shockwave the melee then just run to the caster and let them come to you.
If it's a spread out pull (pull before the first boss in UK) Target one mob, fire your rifle, tab target, Heroic Throw, then charge in and Thunder Clap. AOE pulls are Cleave cleave cleave for me rather than Heroic strike spam.
saregos Jul 16th 2009 5:25PM
As far as the proc management goes, while it's not a perfect solution, I'd suggest getting a combat text mod like Parrot. It seems to help me a lot in making sure I don't miss a proc.
Mr__Pants Jul 16th 2009 6:06PM
Agreed.
Procs like taste for blood and bloodsurge are easily seen with a combat text mod.
The complaints in this article about procs not being more noticeable sound like laziness, imo.
Matthew Rossi Jul 16th 2009 6:08PM
Mr. Pants -
I have Power Auras configured so thaT I have a huge glowing icon appear on my screen as soon as Bloodsurge procs. I can't and won't miss a slam proc when doing a hard mode kill, the DPS must be there.
That in no way excuses Blizzard from the work of making those proc abilities easier to spot without an addon. Saying that not using an addon = laziness is the kind of trite, kneejerk elitism that I simply don't endorse. You shouldn't need a combat text addon to level a warrior, and bloodsurge is a big part of that for a leveling fury.
AlmtyBob Jul 16th 2009 7:23PM
Although it shouldn't need to be used, my favorite is Mik's Scrolling Battle Text. Forget glowing icons and such, I use sound and listen for procs. Whenever sword and board procs I set it to the sound from the Simon game in Ogri'la. It's very easy to hear no matter what else is going on and I don't need to worry about tunnel vision. It's also great when I dual box my mage. I have a nice alarm sound play everytime my focus target (dual box mage) gets the instant Pyro proc. I also have Ghost:Pulse for cooldowns.
Robert M Jul 16th 2009 5:40PM
"Frankly, the Protection tree, while good, is not as good as the developers seem to think it is."
Thank you, thank you, thank you a million times over for saying this. They keep trotting out the prot tree as the crown jewel of WotLK, and I am afraid that with all the South Park fart smelling going on here, we are going to find more of the trees as these great accomplishments to the devs and practically no one of the players.
Zach Jul 16th 2009 5:43PM
Do they even care? That was just a wall of lies, mostly lies to themselves...Blizzard please come to your senses?! Have they gone mad?
Guns Jul 16th 2009 5:59PM
Very disappointing. Wasn't really expecting too much from it but I was hoping for a few answers.
My warrior just hit 80 and in the few crafted epics / PvP gear I have to start out with, my rage generation and damage are abyssmal. Sure, when I get full Naxx or higher gear it will start to even out but why was I pulling 3k+ on my mage the day I hit 80?
I was able to contribute to a group and was wanted in a group because I brought CC/buffs/competitive dps. DPS warriors are LOL'ed at on my server. Everyone would rather have a DK, rogue, or Retadin. More buffs, CC, utility.
Didn't see any answers to my liking sadly.
David Jul 16th 2009 6:02PM
Checkout PowerAuras. It helps put your buffs and procs right in the middle of your UI where you CAN'T miss them. You can control, color, size, transparency... If you're looking for a way to use an ability based on a proc, this is a great way to get there.
Matthew Rossi Jul 16th 2009 6:10PM
I know, I use it. Big glowing randomly colored sigils appear and the sound from when you level up plays every time I get a bloodsurge proc. Doesn't mean I accept that Blizzard shouldn't have to make it more obvious for the level 65 warrior dual wielding through Outland.
David Jul 17th 2009 12:18PM
That's a very valid point, Matthew.
For me one of the best things about WoW is that when they don't have a fix on the development side of things, we mostly have the opportunity to provide our own, where and when it doesn't break any of the rules. So I run mods to fix all of that stuff. Lots of mods, really. I've been told more than once that my UI looks more like a space fighter cockpit than an RPG UI. But it does all the things WoW's UI doesn't.
Sometimes, when when of our fixes becomes popular enough, they absorb it and make it part of the default UI. I think, realistically, that's probably the best we can hope for in most cases. But I'll keep my finger crossed for you during my prayers to the dev team for a while.
Remen Jul 16th 2009 6:12PM
The OP's issue is that Heroic throw is not learned until 80 (if I remember correctly, I dinged 80 a long time ago so I don't remember 100%). So in the mean time his only real option is shoot and bloodrage.
BioHazard Jul 16th 2009 6:52PM
You can also pull with Taunt now that it has a nice, long range if you know you won't have to use it to save someone right after you pull. :)