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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrama Mamas: Of phone calls and slanderers
by Robin Torres 
Jul 17th 2009 at 1:00PM
Let the Drama Mamas guide you through the sticky business of dodging drama, toward becoming that player everyone wants in their group. Drama Mamas Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are real-life mamas and experienced WoW players. And just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your server. We are taking your questions at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.
Like patches through the PTR, so go the Raids of Our Lives. (Thanks, Matticus!) We got quite a few questions after last week's column. There's a lot of drama out there! We'll be answering two questions each episode, so if we don't get to your question this week ... we will eventually.
This week, we're talking about the drama caused by fellow raiders when they take phone calls during raids. We also talk about how to handle officers who end up being not-so-loyal. Let's get to it!
Like patches through the PTR, so go the Raids of Our Lives. (Thanks, Matticus!) We got quite a few questions after last week's column. There's a lot of drama out there! We'll be answering two questions each episode, so if we don't get to your question this week ... we will eventually.
This week, we're talking about the drama caused by fellow raiders when they take phone calls during raids. We also talk about how to handle officers who end up being not-so-loyal. Let's get to it!
Dear Drama Mamas: It really gets on my one last nerve when the raid grinds to a halt because somebody is on a phone call. We have a couple of guys in the guild who just can't say no to their cells. They take calls from their moms, their girlfriends, their roommates, and then we deal with half an hour (and that's being generous) of "Is it safe to pull? He said he's 'kinda AFK.' Is he, or isn't he?". If it's a boss, we're stuck waiting – and sometimes we can hear them jabbering away through Vent. These aren't business calls; they're friends and relatives calling to chat. Seriously – WTF? Signed, Please Shut 'em Up
Drama Mama Lisa: Taking a pressing business call during a raid is one thing. But when the pizza arrives night after night during the most chaotic section of trash clears, or when Mom calls predictably right before the new boss on progression night, it's time to put on the brakes.Raiding is a commitment; either you're there for your group, or you're not. With nine to 24 other people waiting on you (with their own pizzas to eat and their own Moms to call), you simply don't get the luxury of being "kinda AFK." Take care of your business beforehand! There's nothing the least bit attractive about a text- and cell-addicted junkie who can't keep his thumbs off the keypad long enough to deal with what's right in front of him. And make no mistake about it – the people who are waiting on you in game are very much a part of "real life," not figments of the internet that you can shuffle under the rug because "Sorry, guys, I have to talk to Mom!" (You really don't. Mom didn't raise you to ignore your commitments, now, did she?)
Let your voice mail take calls when you're raiding. (It's true: you're really not there right now – you're in Northrend!) At the very least, tell callers "Hey, I picked up because I really didn't want to miss you, but I'm busy now and can't talk. Can I call you back at 9:30?"
The easiest way to cope with chatterboxes who hold up the raid is to suggest that a guild or raid officer speak with them. Group leaders can set group expectations, including clear rules on replacing the person in question after X number of minutes or interruptions.
Drama Mama Robin: Something that your Raid Leader can do to avoid interruptions is to schedule a regular 15-minute raid break. The Spousal Unit did this so that he can participate in The Spawn's bedtime and it enables the entire raid to take care of all personal business and be ready to get back to work. If it's a scheduled break, then people can coax their friends and family to call during that time (and warn them they will be unavailable otherwise). Also, they can order their pizzas so that they can be delivered during that window. It has really helped my husband's guild put a lid on rampant AFKism, but it won't work unless it is enforced as Drama Mama Lisa suggests.
Dear Drama Mamas: I am the GM of a fairly small guild that is making casual but steady progress through endgame content. We are a close knit group that has been playing together for a considerable amount of time. The officers that I have selected to help me run the guild are people that I have always fully trusted. So when I recently found out that one of the officers, in addition to choosing NOT to help the guild with progression, has been spending his time on vent slandering the guild, and me (both as a person and the GM) I was floored. Now I feel as though there is constant tension whenever he logs on.
Is this a demotable or /gkickable issue? He has made it clear that he does not understand my frustrations with him and feels as though my complaints are invalid. Turn the other cheek, or make it clear that this is unacceptable behavior by letting the door hit him on the way out? Signed, NoAngel
Drama Mama Robin: NoAngel, my initial reaction is to say, "Kick him!" Life is too short to have stress in your leisure time activity as well as the rest of your life. If he's not helping progress the guild and is badmouthing you, my question is what does he bring to the guild?
Upon further reflection, and after consulting Officer's Quarters, having a serious chat with him is in both of your best interests. Discuss his current attitude and the reasoning behind it. Obviously, badmouthing you and the guild publicly and not helping in progression are not good for the guild and needs to stop. If he gives you solutions for making his experience better and the guild's as a whole, while apologizing for handling his issues so unprofessionally, then everyone benefits. If, on the other hand, he is neither apologetic nor cooperative, then I go back to my original advice: Kick him!
Drama Mama Lisa: I have to wonder where the other officers are in all this. After all, if you're a true team, this isn't simply between you and This Guy. Where were the other officers when all this slander was going on? Were they agreeing with him? Disagreeing? Shocked into silence? Fleeing from the channel in terror?
If you truly intend the officers to fill working roles, they need to get off their duffs and act. Obviously, Drama Mama Robin is right: you need to have a talk with This Guy and figure out what his beef is. But equally important, you need to get your officers on the same page with an eye toward actively managing guild issues. If This Guy's complaints were without merit, why didn't anyone tell him to knock it off? And if his complaints do have merit, why didn't he or anyone else bring it to the attention of the officers as a group, instead of creating drama in a guildwide channel?
Bottom line: officers need to be useful -- or there's no point. That goes for This Guy, and that goes for the rest of the officers. Sounds like time for a summer tune-up!
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, WoW Social Conventions, Virtual selves, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 6)
Treason Jul 17th 2009 3:35PM
You sir are my hero.
And I think you just set AFK policy for my raid group.
Unmei Jul 18th 2009 8:11AM
I'd say my guild is small ish. Sometimes we get members who level alts to aid in progression (ie healers because we're kinda short on that D:) Our policy with all members alts included is "do your best to Pug it. If someone's not busy or one of the officers can step in and run you we will when we're not busy doing things like Running heroics for new 80's to get geared, or getting dailies and rep grinds done so that at least 1 person in the guild can supply 22 slot bags for those who constantly go "Err I have no bag space"
Robert M Jul 17th 2009 2:15PM
"It promotes the attitude of "Ill let someone else do the work and just collect my phat loot" that seems way too present in endgame (heroic + raid) groups these days. The other downside is a much bigger detriment - they don't know how to play their class, or how to properly work in a group, again being a strain on everyone else in the group."
^This
It's not the simplification of nerfing that is killing WoW, it's players with the belief that every alt should be in blues all the way to Northrend. Gear is nice, but it's not even a necessary discussion until heroics. Even level 80 dungeons are doable with decent quest gear, and it's has become ridiculous at the number of people who think they need runs through every instance at every level.
If your guild insists on helping, then help but set up parameters. I will run any fresh outland 58-62 through a dungeon of their choice in hellfire or zangar because many of those drops have blues with sockets. With Northrend gems, that gear will make leveling to Northrend a breeze and it will last them until they get into instances in Northrend.
I used the cloth belt out of blood furnace all the way until I was able to get the one out of Azjol-Nerub.
yunkndatwunk Jul 17th 2009 2:15PM
Say no. What usually happens is people will get mad saying "you never help!" and leave. People like that, who want to use others constantly, don't understand they are users and never will. It happens outside of the game too
TIberiusxix Jul 17th 2009 2:23PM
What's the difference between taking a phone call and being one of those annoying people that never shut up on vent?
Just tell your guild mates to get a headset for their phone. Problem solved.
RyverRoll Jul 17th 2009 2:31PM
Here is my take on the subjects at hand.
1.) Phone calls during raids - as stated by a previous poster, this is a hobby, and as such, hobbies are a way to relieve stress from day to day life, I actually have several hobbies, I am an avid scuba diver, and parachuter as well, and I do consider WoW another of my hobbies. When I am diving, I cannot simply stop a 60 feet below water take my regulator out and conduct business or take a personal call. When I am freefalling at terminal velocity about 5000 feet above the ground, I cannot arrest my fall hang in midair and chat with my family on the phone. When I dungeon, raid or PvP, I have committed myself to these events and dedicated my focus to the moments. I also set my phone to go to voicemail immediately unless it is a work related call, but I ensure that I do not schedule my events at times when I may be called out for emergency repairs, this is why my company has multiply technicians with whom I rotate our call-out list regularly.
2.) Guild officer causing friction, as the Mama's stated, first thought, /gkick, second thought after some rationalization, communication, find out what the issue the player has, and address this issue with him directly, as GM of two separate but linked guilds myself I know how dire and stressing this can be, it does cause friction within the guild not only between that player and yourself, but also between the other members of the guild on who the should side with and who they should be against, and believe it or not it does matter how stand up you are there will always be some that feel they must throw their allegiance to the other side. If he does not want to change his ways, ask him to leave, you have no hard feelings and wish him the best of luck, this removes you from being the bad guy in the eyes of the guild and it gives your officer an opportunity to bow out gracefully with some dignity still intact.
Onto a posters comment in regards to having a booster in the guild, all guilds will have one in one shape or form. The way I have handled this in the past is to check the roster to see who is on at his same level and get them to group with him, they then pull in a few of their friends of the same level and the group is formed, this is the best way to teach this individual that you are willing to help (you got him a group, saved your higher levels from having to babysit, some of your comparable levels are getting experience and dungeon or group quest time, building the Group Dynamic.) If he does not appreciate the same level assistance, then he will eventually find his way to the door, these people want easy roads to 80 and eventually getting blacklisted from raid groups because of a lack of knowledge on how to play their toons.
Craig Jul 17th 2009 2:33PM
I've read through all this thread, and can't find where anyone has said they support people who afk to shoot the breeze with the guy next door or whatever.
How do you guys know what the person is on the phone about?
How do you know it isn't important?
This is the issue I have with the original story - assumptions are being made, and what evidence are they based upon? Does the original complainant's guild mate come back and say sorry, was talking to a mate about moss on the lawn or something? I'd certainly be annoyed if that kept happening.
Oh and artificial that goes both ways - if you aren't considerate enough to understand that the people who play this game have lives outside of the game, that is actually MORE important than you killing a 3D model.....
Phillip Howell Jul 17th 2009 4:03PM
How do you guys know what the person is on the phone about?
How do you know it isn't important?
You don't, and you don't. And that's okay. You don't have to be chained to your phone. The world is not going to end if you miss a call. No-one is going to die. Maybe be inconvenienced a bit, but again -- that's okay.
This isn't even about WoW, at this point, for me. This is about not being leashed to other people via technology. Twice a year I go out into the woods for four days without any connection to the outside world -- it is literally impossible to contact me (without actually bringing yourself physically into the woods with me). The first time I did this, it made me realize that the rest of the world, and my friends and loved ones, could survive without me.
Try it sometime -- just disconnect for a while. It's refreshing, and it's good for you.
yunkndatwunk Jul 17th 2009 4:26PM
If it's an emergency you type "HAVE TO GO BYE" and leave people know something bad must be up for you to leave immediately, or you can type "family emergency" or whatever.
If it's kids my friends say "Have to AFK for 10 kids" and they might get replaced or might not. But they tell us.
No one just leaves and never says anything.
And even if they do, well emergencies don't happen every day and once in awhile anyone would understand.
But it is obvious by reading the letter we are not talking about emergencies. They are talking about repeated offenses. People leaving constantly. People being "sort of afk"
incidentally I wonder how the person on the phone feels about that player only half paying attention to them too?
You know what the letter is about.
Branch Jul 17th 2009 2:41PM
I don't know how the world ever survived before answering machines and cell phones, the way these people talk they would have never left their house for fear of all these life changing phone calls. Here's an idea once in while leave your cell phone at home and go out, you'll find out the world does not end.
TobiasX Jul 17th 2009 2:56PM
If it's a serious call then the other people should understand. If you got a call, as someone already said, that your daughter had fallen and hurt her self a fast message on vent and go. Don't think, just go. They'll understand.
If it's a call to talk to a friend you saw earlier in the day, for half an hour, just before the boss pull, then you're wasting the time of 9-24 other people and insulting them by doing it. If this is fine by you then you shouldn't be in a progression raid.
RyverRoll Jul 17th 2009 2:59PM
@Craig
Per the original question asked of the Mama's, a few members of the raid constantly talking to:
"They take calls from their moms, their girlfriends, their roommates, and then we deal with half an hour (and that's being generous) of "Is it safe to pull? He said he's 'kinda AFK.' Is he, or isn't he?". If it's a boss, we're stuck waiting – and sometimes we can hear them jabbering away through Vent. These aren't business calls; they're friends and relatives calling to chat."
Ergo under this assumption it can be deduced that these individuals are not talking about life-changing events, emergencies, or dire situations that must be attended to at that particular moment. This being stated, your stress of emergency situations is noted, but is found flawed due to the fact that you have gone outside the scope of the original topic at hand. This is in regards to general chat from people on the phone tying up and delaying other peoples time at hand, where they may have some issue that must be attended to after their slotted raid time. Life goes on for the people waiting for the individual to get off the phone as well.
Would you like to be raiding and one of your members say, "AFK, BRB phone." Then for the next 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes here them discuss everything from how Jane is going to go out with Fred, the new movie is playing at the cinema let's go see it, how long are you going to be on that game, they don't matter it's just a video game.
This topic was broached not by an individual wanting to stop emergency calls coming in, but wanting advice on people calling just to chat, and in so doing occupy the times of 4, 9, 24, and on the rare occasion 39 other people without excuse.
Heremod Jul 17th 2009 3:13PM
Here's a follow up. It's rude to play a videogame while talking to someone on the phone.
Semi-AFK is being potentially rude to two different groups of people :-).
Also, everyone in my raid group will tell us if they left or had to leave for an emergency. Just like I'd tell my friends before ditching out on a party. If someone just says "afk phone" every single week, assuming it's a non-emergency is a safe bet.
I seriously raided once with a guy who, after many afks we found out, played WoW while working at a bar.
Is work more important than wow? yes. Should he have been raiding while working? No.
The problem is you're wasting other people's time. It really is equivalent to talking on the phone while playing a team sport with friends.
Not to sound like an old-person, but people these days just don't understand that the phone does not have to be answered right now. And I say that as someone who has only ever seen anyone answer a phone in a business meeting once, and she was in her 40s.
We actually deal with a number of short afks in our Raid group because people have children they need to take care of, we don't have a problem with that at all. But answering non-emergency, routine phone calls is different. [We even don't mind the occassional 'Sorry, that was my Dad' afks. But if it happened regularly, we'd do something.]
[My favorite is still "Sorry, AFK, I have to go install a water heater".]
Bottom line is, everyone else is refraining from afking for the good of the group, it's rude to assume you're special, or the only one who has other things they also want to be doing.
t0xic Jul 17th 2009 3:20PM
Acceptable behavior is defined on a guild-by-guild basis. Going AFK in the middle of a raid may be okay in one guild and completely unacceptable in another. The simple message here is to find a guild that is compatible with your needs.
Irem Jul 17th 2009 3:23PM
Seconding the suggestion to institute a policy that would make it against the rules to even ask. That's what we had to do in my guild to stop people from constantly asking every 80 that logged on "Hey, are you busy NOW? How about now?" Be honest about it and say that it's to keep nice, helpful people from feeling as though they're being hounded and taken advantage of. Word it so that "Does anyone want to run me through ______? ....Nobody? Really?" is also forbidden, but "Would anyone like to run ______?" is okay (at that point a higher level can step in if they feel like it without feeling like they're giving in to a guilt trip).
It may or may not work for your guild, but you can also implement "mini-quests" like turning in a stack of leather or whatnot to the gbank in exchange for points that can be turned in for a dungeon run at a willing high level's convenience.
DG Jul 17th 2009 3:26PM
It's pretty basic. If you afk in a shared activity with other people you are wasting their time. /gkick and you can make a guild named iamafk
DG Jul 17th 2009 3:29PM
There are a lot of people that waste your time in wow. One was the warlock who had to go to Undercity and respec before he could attempt chillmaw. Then he took the zep back to howling ford and took the flight path to the wrong spot. We waited anyway. Then to cit to joust, one member died, he finished and dropped the group.
Or the mage who wanted to make a guild and was in stormwind. He took the tram to IF for a signature instead of porting.
Time wasters of WoW.
Letharginator Jul 17th 2009 4:02PM
I like these questions a lot more than than last weeks. They're more applicable to WoW players in general.
Kaelara Jul 17th 2009 4:04PM
Ok - Craig - the thing here sounds like:
1) AFKing due to phone conversations is a persistent issue. This isn't happening once, twice, etc... it's happening from multiple people and on multiple nights. There is a trend here (as I read it) where these people come back from their phone call, and when asked their answer is -- a friend, my mom, just chatting, etc.
2) How do I know that the phone call is important? We have guildees who occassionally go AFK for a call. How do we know if it's a big deal? THEY TELL US. I have been in a situation once where I got a call from a friend who had a major event in her life and I had to take it. The conversation lasted for 15 minutes, so I quickly typed, "Hey, important call - might take 15 or 30 min. If you want to continue without me, or remove me, I totally understand - but have to be AFK." Including that example, I've had one other situation in the last 3 years, where I had to say - AFK, might not make it back, find a replacement. Then I leave, log out, quit, etc.
As a former GM and Raid Leader, I am quite willing to accommodate people who go AFK. However, repeated behaviors of any type from any individual that display a disrespect for me or the others on our playing team, mean that they might have to sit out for those who can stay for the whole time. My guild has never been hardcore, but we are very successful because we expect that our guildees be considerate of each other: make sure your gear enables you to enter the raid level, be on time, don't sign up unless you show up.
I will generally only answer calls from my husband when I'm raiding, or someone else who is a WoW player who I can say - hey, I'm in a raid at the moment, can you make it quick? And only if I can continue to perform my role in the raid as I do it. If it's a big enough issue, I figure someone will leave a message, and I will check the message immediately just to make sure. 95% of the time it's something that can certainly wait an hour with no difficulties whatsoever.
Craig Jul 17th 2009 4:44PM
Precisely my point to be honest.
I loathe mobile phones, and frequently 'forget' to take mine, so that I can be out of touch when i want to be.
The original story just touched a raw nerve, where I am seeing raiding >>> all in WoW, including treating people like human beings, and it really gets on my nerves.