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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrama Mamas: Of phone calls and slanderers
by Robin Torres 
Jul 17th 2009 at 1:00PM
Let the Drama Mamas guide you through the sticky business of dodging drama, toward becoming that player everyone wants in their group. Drama Mamas Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are real-life mamas and experienced WoW players. And just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your server. We are taking your questions at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.
Like patches through the PTR, so go the Raids of Our Lives. (Thanks, Matticus!) We got quite a few questions after last week's column. There's a lot of drama out there! We'll be answering two questions each episode, so if we don't get to your question this week ... we will eventually.
This week, we're talking about the drama caused by fellow raiders when they take phone calls during raids. We also talk about how to handle officers who end up being not-so-loyal. Let's get to it!
Like patches through the PTR, so go the Raids of Our Lives. (Thanks, Matticus!) We got quite a few questions after last week's column. There's a lot of drama out there! We'll be answering two questions each episode, so if we don't get to your question this week ... we will eventually.
This week, we're talking about the drama caused by fellow raiders when they take phone calls during raids. We also talk about how to handle officers who end up being not-so-loyal. Let's get to it!
Dear Drama Mamas: It really gets on my one last nerve when the raid grinds to a halt because somebody is on a phone call. We have a couple of guys in the guild who just can't say no to their cells. They take calls from their moms, their girlfriends, their roommates, and then we deal with half an hour (and that's being generous) of "Is it safe to pull? He said he's 'kinda AFK.' Is he, or isn't he?". If it's a boss, we're stuck waiting – and sometimes we can hear them jabbering away through Vent. These aren't business calls; they're friends and relatives calling to chat. Seriously – WTF? Signed, Please Shut 'em Up
Drama Mama Lisa: Taking a pressing business call during a raid is one thing. But when the pizza arrives night after night during the most chaotic section of trash clears, or when Mom calls predictably right before the new boss on progression night, it's time to put on the brakes.Raiding is a commitment; either you're there for your group, or you're not. With nine to 24 other people waiting on you (with their own pizzas to eat and their own Moms to call), you simply don't get the luxury of being "kinda AFK." Take care of your business beforehand! There's nothing the least bit attractive about a text- and cell-addicted junkie who can't keep his thumbs off the keypad long enough to deal with what's right in front of him. And make no mistake about it – the people who are waiting on you in game are very much a part of "real life," not figments of the internet that you can shuffle under the rug because "Sorry, guys, I have to talk to Mom!" (You really don't. Mom didn't raise you to ignore your commitments, now, did she?)
Let your voice mail take calls when you're raiding. (It's true: you're really not there right now – you're in Northrend!) At the very least, tell callers "Hey, I picked up because I really didn't want to miss you, but I'm busy now and can't talk. Can I call you back at 9:30?"
The easiest way to cope with chatterboxes who hold up the raid is to suggest that a guild or raid officer speak with them. Group leaders can set group expectations, including clear rules on replacing the person in question after X number of minutes or interruptions.
Drama Mama Robin: Something that your Raid Leader can do to avoid interruptions is to schedule a regular 15-minute raid break. The Spousal Unit did this so that he can participate in The Spawn's bedtime and it enables the entire raid to take care of all personal business and be ready to get back to work. If it's a scheduled break, then people can coax their friends and family to call during that time (and warn them they will be unavailable otherwise). Also, they can order their pizzas so that they can be delivered during that window. It has really helped my husband's guild put a lid on rampant AFKism, but it won't work unless it is enforced as Drama Mama Lisa suggests.
Dear Drama Mamas: I am the GM of a fairly small guild that is making casual but steady progress through endgame content. We are a close knit group that has been playing together for a considerable amount of time. The officers that I have selected to help me run the guild are people that I have always fully trusted. So when I recently found out that one of the officers, in addition to choosing NOT to help the guild with progression, has been spending his time on vent slandering the guild, and me (both as a person and the GM) I was floored. Now I feel as though there is constant tension whenever he logs on.
Is this a demotable or /gkickable issue? He has made it clear that he does not understand my frustrations with him and feels as though my complaints are invalid. Turn the other cheek, or make it clear that this is unacceptable behavior by letting the door hit him on the way out? Signed, NoAngel
Drama Mama Robin: NoAngel, my initial reaction is to say, "Kick him!" Life is too short to have stress in your leisure time activity as well as the rest of your life. If he's not helping progress the guild and is badmouthing you, my question is what does he bring to the guild?
Upon further reflection, and after consulting Officer's Quarters, having a serious chat with him is in both of your best interests. Discuss his current attitude and the reasoning behind it. Obviously, badmouthing you and the guild publicly and not helping in progression are not good for the guild and needs to stop. If he gives you solutions for making his experience better and the guild's as a whole, while apologizing for handling his issues so unprofessionally, then everyone benefits. If, on the other hand, he is neither apologetic nor cooperative, then I go back to my original advice: Kick him!
Drama Mama Lisa: I have to wonder where the other officers are in all this. After all, if you're a true team, this isn't simply between you and This Guy. Where were the other officers when all this slander was going on? Were they agreeing with him? Disagreeing? Shocked into silence? Fleeing from the channel in terror?
If you truly intend the officers to fill working roles, they need to get off their duffs and act. Obviously, Drama Mama Robin is right: you need to have a talk with This Guy and figure out what his beef is. But equally important, you need to get your officers on the same page with an eye toward actively managing guild issues. If This Guy's complaints were without merit, why didn't anyone tell him to knock it off? And if his complaints do have merit, why didn't he or anyone else bring it to the attention of the officers as a group, instead of creating drama in a guildwide channel?
Bottom line: officers need to be useful -- or there's no point. That goes for This Guy, and that goes for the rest of the officers. Sounds like time for a summer tune-up!
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, WoW Social Conventions, Virtual selves, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 6)
Crawlermeat Jul 17th 2009 5:45PM
"For the record I would answer the phone during sports games"
Really? If you were playing first base in a softball game, and the ball went into play, you would pick up your phone out of your pocket and ignore the throw to first while you're checking to see if it's an emergency?
Remind me never to play softball with you.
I am of the mindset that plenty of people take raiding far too seriously, but be realistic. That's why the suggestion for "take a 15 minute break every once in a while" came up -- there are very few phone calls that you can't wait an hour to take. If it's an unavoidable scheduled call, let the raid know beforehand. If it's a call from a significant other who is out of town, don't raid when you're expecting that call. If it's a call from a person who is likely to be calling about an emergency, like a child caretaker, pick it up, but those calls are likely to be few and far between.
Allowing life to take precedence over raiding does not equal being an inconsiderate dick to the real life people you raid with.
Hoggersbud Jul 17th 2009 6:32PM
If there's one thing I've noticed about people who like to gossip and chatter is that they're insensitive to what anybody else feels about their banter.
This could come in the mall, in a check-out line, or during a raid. If anything they get outraged over being asked to stay focused. What they want, you see, is for you to respect them, but they don't want to respect you
Yeah, there are times minor emergencies come up, or things have to be talked about, but there are limits.
But hey, as long as you're not the main tank or a healer, I don't much care. Stick to the DPS and stay off the progression raids, bring your D game for all I worry.
impurezero Jul 17th 2009 6:46PM
Wow...the Drama Mamas are really earning their name through comments. :)
For what seems like such a non-controversial article, there sure is a lot of fighting going around. Most of it, though, seems to be triggered by assumptions and lack of reading skills. My 2 cents on what I've seen so far:
1) Everyone here is in TOTAL AGREEMENT that emergencies are more important that a raid. That was not the issue at hand here, though, so to the people that got downrated for using the "what if it's an emergency" argument...please re-read the original post, and you will see that this is not what is being discussed. Obviously there's a difference between going afk to paint your toenails, and going afk because your house is on fire. Please keep your comments relevent to the question that was actually asked (i.e. "we can hear them jabbering away through Vent. These aren't business calls; they're friends and relatives calling to chat").
2) Secondly, to anyone using the "real life in general is more important that wow" argument. Yes...it is. That's exactly why you're a dick if you make 24 people wait for "your" real life time because you don't know how to schedule. Guess what...those people have "real lives" to get back to as well. But YOU are single-handedly postponing them from getting to it. Go finish the raid and call your friend back later.
And a very special reply to a specific comment which wins my personal "completely ignores logic" award:
"For the record I would answer the phone during sports games, but then I'm also considerate enough to allow others to do the same."
3) This would be a perfect analogy...if only picking up your phone at the baseball game required that 24 people around you had to put on blindfolds and stop watching as well. As it stands, you're an idiot.
Craig Jul 17th 2009 7:37PM
LOL I'm an idiot
You are making a very dodgy assumption - that the sports I play require that many people. I played football (the proper English version), but only ever played casually with friends, so therefore anyone needing to go afk so to speak, could do so. We played for fun, to have a laugh, for the camaraderie, and that's the way I play WoW to be honest.
My first post was due to the response of the original drama mama
"Sorry, guys, I have to talk to Mom!" (You really don't. Mom didn't raise you to ignore your commitments, now, did she?)
Sorry but if 24 other people think so little of their parents, that they consider smacking some scripted 3D model encounter more important, then I think they have their priorities seriously out of whack. Your mother raised you, wiped your sh*tty arse, and yet you think it's ok to dismiss her in favour of pixel bashing - and the people you raid with would give you grief for it? People I raid with would laugh about it and take the piss, that mummy kept calling during raids :)
Am I the guy the goes AFK to answer phones/door etc - no - I have a partner and daughter that do that, but not everyone does, but I still have to take over sometimes. People of all types play this game, and they all have different views on what is important to them. There's a guild member in my guild who frequently has to go do things for his mother - he's 15, and does as he's told. Should we not take him along on raids, because he might have to AFK to empty the kitchen bin? Others should not raid cos their spouse is away from home, working, because they might have to afk to chat? They can raid with me, and when they're partner calls, we'll all take a break, or just keep going as best we can.
Back to the phone thing - I actually did become like that last year for about 3 weeks, constantly chatting to my mother and sister during the evenings, not even about serious stuff, and all the people I raided with accepted it. You see they knew that I was adopted when I was 2 years old and had recently managed to trace my 'birth' family. It's not really that important to them, but was to me, and so they accepted it
I'm grateful that I raid with decent, civilised human beings, and not selfish loot/achievement whores like SOME of the posters here seem to be.
The Claw Jul 17th 2009 7:43PM
Everyone except you has been talking about _playing_ sports, not _watching_ a game.
We would use the "watching a baseball game" analogy if someone suggested it was rude to answer the phone while watching your room-mate raiding in WoW. Which nobody did.
Just Me Jul 18th 2009 1:01AM
Paris Hilton apparently answers her phone while boinking random men on the hood of cars, too and feels it's not disrespectful.
Applause applause The Claw! You are dead on!
The exact analogy I used was if you have friends over for dinner you might answer the phone to make sure it's nothing urgent then tell the caller you have company and will return the call. If you have people over for dinner, answer the phone then go off into another room abandoning your guests while you talk about their latest purchase, it's the same thing.
Craig you are looking for an argument, I believe and making up opposing positions that don't exist. Actually it's kind of fitting given that you come off as one of those jackasses I stand behind trying to get something off of a shelf in the grocery store while you block the way all the time having some idiotic cell phone conversation along the lines of "Yeah, so now I'm getting milk...no the 2%, what are you doing?" who act anally violated when I ask them to excuse me since they can't multitask enough to have vacuous conversation and locate the item they need at the same time.
My real life comes first, as well, but I also have some respect for the other people I've committed to and don't feel that missing a "yakk" call is going to end my world.
.
impurezero Jul 22nd 2009 11:25AM
Craig...I did make one assumption. The wording of your post made its seem to me that you were talking about watching sports events with friends, as opposed to playing a friendly game with them. Knowing that you're talking about that, I take back that specific part of my original response and apologize for the misunderstanding. I still think the rest is valid, though.
kidandroid Jul 17th 2009 8:00PM
What is it with you people and assuming that the way I handle phone calls when playing WoW translates to other activites? I'm an avid basketball player and most of the time calls are ignored when I'm playing games with my homies. However when I play WoW I am more inclined to pick up my phone because in my perspective WoW is a videogame that is played casually and I will afk or not depending on what situations occur. I mean for chrissake I'm sitting down at my desk when I play WoW, and when I'm playing basketball I'm dribbling up and down a court at the local park. Which situation would leave you more inclined to pick up a phone if you were to do so?
Most of you are being quite histrionic in regards to my comment. Don't twist it and make assumptions about the way I live my life. If my phone rings during a raid, I will most likely take the action of picking it up. If it isn't important I'll tell the person on the phone I'm busy, if it is I would take no hesitation in afking in a raid. Perhaps I worded my first comment wrongly. But please do not be so melodramatic as to assume that's how I live my life.
Styvorama Jul 18th 2009 11:28AM
Either in playing basketball and wow, there are other ppl counting on you. What your basically saying is ppl can count on my when they can physically see me. You need to rethink your outlook buddy, cause you are no team player. If you are in a guild I'm sure they are sick of your antics if it disturbs the raid.
Maybe you need to think of your raid as a big team of players, not as a casual game. Ppl are counting on you, and I'm sure those ppl are ignoring or dealing with calls while playing, not going /afk every time their phone rings.
TonyMcS Jul 17th 2009 9:27PM
The funniest thing in these posts is how people strive to explain how their behaviour differs between "real life" and WoW. They also seem to have a lot of trouble realising that Raiding is a social endeavour with real people. It really doesn't matter if you are getting together with 10 or 25 people for a business project, a party, a family reunion, a sport or non-interactive gaming such as sitting down to watch football.
If the endeavour will only go forward with you participating, then you are effectively ruining the experience for up to 24 other people. Just as in any other activity, if you have an emergency, then any mature person (no matter their age) will express their sympathy and deal with the consequences of your absence. But arguing from the extreme of "gtg my house is on fire" is ridiculous, as no-one expects you to ignore emergencies and the incidence of real emergencies is thankfully fairly low.
Anyone who thinks that WoW is just a video game and there are no consequences for going AFK whenever they like, lacks both empathy and consideration. You are interacting with real people and they deserve exactly the same consideration as your family, friends, neighbours and some strangers you may be helping out. The ability to treat other people as unimportant or statistical models has lead the world into various deep holes already and there's no need to repeat it in WoW.
If you are annoying, obsessive, non-empathic and inconsiderate in WoW, then the odds are you are exactly the same in real life. In that case, the raid or guild is going to be better off with you gone, no matter how epic your gear or skillz.
Almoderate Jul 17th 2009 9:33PM
@Craig:
"Sorry but if 24 other people think so little of their parents, that they consider smacking some scripted 3D model encounter more important, then I think they have their priorities seriously out of whack."
No, they're saying that the precious, limited time of 24 other people is more important than your non-emergent chit-chat with your mom that could have waited another hour (or been taken care of earlier). I am no more a bunch of pixels than you are. Emergencies are one thing, but getting a recipe from Mom isn't an emergency. And asking those other people to sit there and twiddle their thumbs waiting on you and wondering if you'll come back is just plain rude-- no matter what they're waiting on you to do.
Other people have busy lives to get back to just as you do, and they set aside their busy lives for X number of hours to hang out with you. Show them the same courtesy. Again, I'm referring to PEOPLE and not just a VIDEO GAME. You see you play a VIDEO GAME with PEOPLE, and if you can't handle that concept, then you might want to pick a VIDEO GAME that doesn't involve other PEOPLE when you play it. There are plenty "just video game"s out there. World of Warcraft, or at least the group aspect of it, is not one of them. Nobody ever said that pixels were more important than real life, but in WoW, you aren't just dealing with pixels. You're dealing with people. It's the people part of this that is the factor in the argument-- not the pixels. And while PIXELS aren't as important as your real life, I'm willing to bet that other PEOPLE playing pixels would argue that their free time is just as valuable to them as yours is to you.
Knowing that a raid member is a kid that might have to take out the garbage is something that the group knows up front and can agree to, and that's okay. (Some guilds have an age restriction for that purpose. Others don't.) And yes, emergencies happen. That being said, it's a fairly safe bet that if someone is AFK 5-6 times during a four-hour raid and does this almost every raid he joins, then it's likely not an emergency each of those times. (Either way, neither one of these situations is what was discussed in the OP, so the point is moot.)
Craig Jul 17th 2009 10:24PM
You are right, and it's why I raid with the people I do. They are people, and I treat them like people, but they are still playing a game, and thankfully i think most of them recognise that.
You see I recognise that their priorities may be different to mine, and hope that they recognise that the reverse is also true. So far I've been right, but if I'm ever not, then I'll go somewhere else or play something else. I can take it or leave it - WoW is a glorified chat interface to me.
Birdfall Jul 17th 2009 10:51PM
On the Badmouthing Officer:
If you *do* need to kick him (ie, he doesn't apologize or want to work things out), let the guild know on your forums or guild message of the day that you welcome *constructive* criticism of the guild, but anyone who ruins morale and the guild's reputation for no reason won't get to stay. You want the guild to feel free to come to you with problems while understanding that bad behavior won't be tolerated, and you want them to know where that line is.
NaRaKi Jul 18th 2009 9:26AM
Well some people actually have to be available even when they are on downtime...
I.E. Firemen, Paramedics, Sysadmin whos pager is ringing. I'm pretty sure some of them are raiding to. Wanna go tell em that they cant take their phone because 24 other people want to play a game?. Oh dear, Oh dear it might be important. Hell it might be a house on fire.
But sure vote down the voices of reason such as kidandroid. Its just serves to show that non of you ever had any real responcibilty, Or had to be somewhere regardless of what the fuck you were doing prior to that.
Firebrigade raiders FTW...
we might be AFK but at least yer house wont turn into a kingsize BBQ
nieboh Jul 18th 2009 11:33AM
Thank you for being a volunteer fireman, your work is greatly appreciated! I have the utmost respect for your profession.
I am an instructor in a community college and I often have people in your situation (or paramedics or even just parents with a sick child who may need to take a call from a sitter). In the beginning of each semester when I go over the syllabus I tell the students that they need to turn off their cell phones prior to the start of class (per college guidelines). I also mention that there are exceptions to this such as your situation and I ask them to see me about it before class and we make arrangements for them. They can sit closer to the door, have their phone on vibrate mode, step into the hall to take a call if it rings, if it's something that is going to call them away they can either step back into the class and get their things or if they really have to scoot, I'll gather their materials and they can get it from me later.
While you have a noble calling, it's still on your shoulders to inform people of your situation so they can make arrangements. You sign up for a raid, the day of the raid comes and you're on call. As the raid invite comes in, just let them know, "on call tonight" and they'll understand if you have to scoot.
If you're not considerate enough to let them know up front, than you're just as big a dick as they are for getting pissy that you have to go.
jayson Jul 18th 2009 2:10PM
Did it ever strike any of you that wow is a game. You are guild leader of a group of people with reality issues, social issues and those of need of serious psychological help. If your not treating wow as a casual game to play 4-8 hours a week then you have allocated too much time to it, there is a real world out there. The time to spend in wow over 8 hours a week will have to be addressed later. There is always a price to pay, its called sloth. It has physical and psychological ramifications. In my opinion all wow players are drama queens and generally guild leadership are the worst, but they make it their business to hide it well and justify their bad social behavior. Wow can teach you one thing though. If you want to know how to operate in a group setting under the worst possible group dynamic conditions wow is the game to test those skills.
NaRaKi Jul 18th 2009 3:45PM
@ nieboh -
Quote:
While you have a noble calling, it's still on your shoulders to inform people of your situation so they can make arrangements. You sign up for a raid, the day of the raid comes and you're on call. As the raid invite comes in, just let them know, "on call tonight" and they'll understand if you have to scoot.
Offcourse and I consider this to be something of a normal curtesy to inform people that im on standby. I was merely trying to point out that some things REALLY do go before gaming and that certain people who were being down rated were right.
However your repley is greatly appreciated.
pongo_3931 Jul 19th 2009 8:39PM
In reply to the second 'dear drama mama' poster:
As a GL this is where your pragmatist hat needs to be put on. This situation has the potential to go afoul; and a rampant officer is the worst kind of afoul. If it gets to the point where you start talking about him/her leaving, ensure that officer access to the bank at the time is restricted and even consider disabling the /gkick access if your officers have it.
Now you can turn it back on later, but if they decide to snap and start breaking things, they wont get very far. Also, they will have no idea that you've restricted access before hand and may get an idea of how on top of things you really are.
Political finesse is great in these situations, but there is no substitute for preparedness.
Jayded Jul 20th 2009 5:56AM
When i raid i turn my phone off. The wife doesn't need to ask if her ass looks fat in that dress and things like that. It's raid time and if ur in some kind of serious guild you should focus on that. The world (the real one even) will still be there when the raid ends...
my 2 cents...
KT Jul 21st 2009 3:56AM
One way to solve the raid/AFK situation is to implement a rule that if anyone goes AFK during a particular fight for more than X minutes, the raid will go on without them. If the fight ends before they come back, then they will not be entitled to roll on loot obtained from that fight.
People will think twice about it then, I think. If it's an emergency, then the loot won't matter, because the real life stuff will be more important. But if they're not getting the rewards from the raid when they don't participate, then they may rethink and either get in the game or decide that maybe raiding is not for them.
It's true that real life should come before a game always, but manners are important in every setting, whether it be fun or formal. As people have pointed out - phones didn't always exist and yet life managed to be lived.
But in all things, my rule is that if you don't really want to be with me then don't be. If you're going to invite me out for a drink and then jump at your phone every time it rings and talk to everyone who calls no matter what, then you're sending a message that they are all more important than me and I'd prefer to let you spend your time at home answering your phone all night. Likewise if you're in a raid with me but do the same thing, then you can go talk to the people who are important to you rather than being in my raid. (Actually, I don't raid, but this is one of the exact reasons why - I'm constantly having to get up and go in the middle of playing and it wouldn't be fair to make other people count on me.)